2017 trade/draft thread

[ChampRevesby]

So he's not getting a gig over Wines, Ebert, Powell-pepper, Gray, Wingard, Polec and Rockliff. Whats the deal here?

 

[Gugs9]

Maybe i need to take my eagles glasses off, but we did lead the comp for time in front this year. Watching all our games this year, it seemed to me like fitness was a major issue, in particular our part time rucks dying in last quarters and us getting smashed out the centre at the end of games as a result.

As good as priddis and mitchell are, given their lack of pace at the end of the year i feel like we are actually better placed next year with outs: priddis mitchell petrie wellingham AND ins: ah chee venables nic nat rioli lycett.

Maybe i’m a bit more bullish than others about next year but i would be sitting on our first and second round picks, developing yeo further into hopefully an A grade mid in 2018, moving a cole/nelson to the backline, and picking up ah chee for a 3rd or 4th rounder.

I think we are still in a decent spot, and might surprise the comp a bit like 2015!

 

[WCEswift]

Yes our midfield looks young but with Ah chee adding a bit of freak and sheed and redden playing in their normal positions now retirements have happened with venables shuey duggan nelson and yeo all rotating in with potentially kelly its not that bad

 

[dajesmac]

I suppose what i am suggesting is when was the last time you ever read or saw something like this:

"West Coast set to offer out of contract (opposition) player 5 year deal" etc

I cant remember anything off the top of my head. In fact, we would have to be one of the very few clubs, if not the only one, that i cannot remember having made a public approach for a players services. If i am wrong, i stand corrected.

I think we're pretty good at flying under the radar. Redden and Mitchell are probably two of our higher profile trades in recent years and neither popped up in the media until the deal had basically been done. The players we seem to get publicly linked, i.e the spuds (Bootsma, Everitt, Ben Nason, etc etc) never seem to actually happen.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Not really a fan of Fosters work but he is not far off the mark here, unless you are prepared to go a total rebuild from the bottom up then the draft is not going to do much for you. You only get one first round draft pick each in general sense and that will have zero impact on your list for about 2-3 years unless you somehow jag a Chris Judd type of player.
Trading is what it is about and we always seem very quite in this area, I highly doubt we are that good at keeping secrets where the media find it impossible to know if we are talking to players and clubs which leads me to believe we are not doing much at all.
But that is an opinion from a long way away I guess.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Yes our midfield looks young but with Ah chee adding a bit of freak and sheed and redden playing in their normal positions now retirements have happened with venables shuey duggan nelson and yeo all rotating in with potentially kelly its not that bad

Not that bad compared to who though? I don't think the current midfield will match it with the best given our current depth and experience gap. Its good to be positive but people need to be realistic about our prospect in the coming years. We are basically rebuilding our midfield from here on end and we will be found out on multiple occasions next year, which is ok if you have realistic expectations. If we have any hope of being there or there abouts the likes of Duggan, Sheed, Redden, Venables all have to go to the next level and to expect that will happen is a little myopic. Happy to be wrong.

 

[dajesmac]

Not really a fan of Fosters work but he is not far off the mark here, unless you are prepared to go a total rebuild from the bottom up then the draft is not going to do much for you. You only get one first round draft pick each in general sense and that will have zero impact on your list for about 2-3 years unless you somehow jag a Chris Judd type of player.
Trading is what it is about and we always seem very quite in this area, I highly doubt we are that good at keeping secrets where the media find it impossible to know if we are talking to players and clubs which leads me to believe we are not doing much at all.
But that is an opinion from a long way away I guess.

Well the last two times we've spent our first rounder on an established midfielder most would say it didn't pay off (maybe too early to write off Redden). It's like BOND said, if we are unable to talk elite mids in moving to Perth then our best chance is through the draft. Alternatively, you can move later picks to clubs for undervalued players that have potential to be best 22 players (much like we seem to be doing with Ah Chee) in a position of need.

 

[Ishmael_]

I suppose what i am suggesting is when was the last time you ever read or saw something like this:

"West Coast set to offer out of contract (opposition) player 5 year deal" etc

I cant remember anything off the top of my head. In fact, we would have to be one of the very few clubs, if not the only one, that i cannot remember having made a public approach for a players services. If i am wrong, i stand corrected.

Ya not really, but that's probably a good thing.

North, Freo, GWS, Adelaide, Geelong (boak), Richmond (Treloar) etc. etc.

Being loud and throwing contracts around doesn't seem to achieve anything. You're probably more likely to piss off the trading club and scare the player.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

There is some comfort that Ah Chee was drafted in 2011 - the year we lost out to Port on Ebert trade. With picks 28 and 45, we effectively got pick 19 for Ebert which was unders.

If you add in Ah Chee as pick 45 to the equation, we eventually could pick up as much as pick 12 for Ebert.


Assuming we have to pay a 4th round for the Sneezer, then Ebert is equivalent to pick 13.



So Whilst I realise we got screwed on the Ebert deal, there is some Karma if we pull off the Sneezer deal for pennies.

Recruiting the Sneezer means we start working on his brother in 2 years time.

It also addresses the age profile gap in the club - Yeo and McInnes are the only 2 players from that draft cohort on our list and McInnes is holding on tentatively.

And yes I know points are only one way of measuring, it calms me down a little on the Ebert screw over.

 

[Seadog]

Score Check please.

Did we win trade week yet?[/QUOTE
We are to trade week as the Dockers are to Premierships.

 

[bombard]

One recurring theme that has been going through here - and a lot of other BF threads - lately is "just do what Richmond did - two of three stars and a tonne of pressure around the ball." Last year it was "just do watch the Bulldogs did - find a bunch of gut runners with disposal and have them run in swarms. Defensive footy is dead." etcetcetc.

I think that's really dangerous thinking with both groups. I can see why clubs sought to emulate Hawthorn and Geelong - lists and tactics which withstood more than one year of success - but I think history is going to show us that neither the Dogs or Tigers fit that bill. Hell, we were nearly one of those flash-in-the-pan flags ourselves.

This isn't related to any of the recent posts, but just something I've noticed over the last week or so [shrug]. It's lunchtime on a Monday.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Also you look pretty bad if you continually don't land the players you've publicly thrown money at. Look at North this year, and Freo a few years ago when they were going hard at Cloke, Clark and any other forward over 6'3".

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

There is some comfort that Ah Chee was drafted in 2011 - the year we lost out to Port on Ebert trade. With picks 28 and 45, we effectively got pick 19 for Ebert which was unders.

If you add in Ah Chee as pick 45 to the equation, we eventually could pick up as much as pick 12 for Ebert.

View attachment 426248
Assuming we have to pay a 4th round for the Sneezer, then Ebert is equivalent to pick 13.

View attachment 426249

So Whilst I realise we got screwed on the Ebert deal, there is some Karma if we pull off the Sneezer deal for pennies.

Recruiting the Sneezer means we start working on his brother in 2 years time.

It also addresses the age profile gap in the club - Yeo and McInnes are the only 2 players from that draft cohort on our list and McInnes is holding on tentatively.

And yes I know points are only one way of measuring, it calms me down a little on the Ebert screw over.

We gave Ebert and 45 for 28 and 49, which put his value at slightly below 28. I.e. we got massive unders.

 

[MaxHunt]

Simpson has stated that he believes we have the team to win the flag next year. He continually seems to overate the list, alternatively , he shows great faith in the playing group . Which is it ?

Bartell made a point today that clubs in positions like ours should get in a 3rd party to conduct a list analysis report.

 

[Coasters7]

Maybe i need to take my eagles glasses off, but we did lead the comp for time in front this year. Watching all our games this year, it seemed to me like fitness was a major issue, in particular our part time rucks dying in last quarters and us getting smashed out the centre at the end of games as a result.

As good as priddis and mitchell are, given their lack of pace at the end of the year i feel like we are actually better placed next year with outs: priddis mitchell petrie wellingham AND ins: ah chee venables nic nat rioli lycett.

Maybe i’m a bit more bullish than others about next year but i would be sitting on our first and second round picks, developing yeo further into hopefully an A grade mid in 2018, moving a cole/nelson to the backline, and picking up ah chee for a 3rd or 4th rounder.

I think we are still in a decent spot, and might surprise the comp a bit like 2015!

The more frustrating thing is that all you said is true yet we didn't ever look like we got out of first gear (Geelong game the only exception). If we'd held on for 3 of the games we choked, we would've finished top.

If you look at the quality of games with us compared to Adelaide throughout the season, there's no way we would've deserved to finish above them.

That means either we were extremely lucky this year, or we are going to be a very good side when we actually get our **** together.

Our backline is good enough to win games on their own so we don't "need" a superstar midfield. Just a unit that gets in and has a crack and breaks even/wins slightly, not necessarily dominate. The bookends will win us the game.

 

[Ishmael_]

Well the last two times we've spent our first rounder on an established midfielder most would say it didn't pay off (maybe too early to write off Redden). It's like BOND said, if we are unable to talk elite mids in moving to Perth then our best chance is through the draft. Alternatively, you can move later picks to clubs for undervalued players that have potential to be best 22 players (much like we seem to be doing with Ah Chee) in a position of need.

Completely agree, i think our trading has been pretty good the last few years.

Its what's kept us competitive the last few years, it's certainly not our drafting.

Adelaide and Richmond have been successful at it, we just need some Crouch-like luck.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

We gave Ebert and 45 for 28 and 49, which put his value at slightly below 28. I.e. we got massive unders.

Even more reason to get 45 back for free

 

[Agent93]

Bartell made a point today that clubs in positions like ours should get in a 3rd party to conduct a list analysis report.

Surely that's just due-diligence? Remove the emotional component of the analysis.

 

[Avalor]

There is some comfort that Ah Chee was drafted in 2011 - the year we lost out to Port on Ebert trade. With picks 28 and 45, we effectively got pick 19 for Ebert which was unders.

If you add in Ah Chee as pick 45 to the equation, we eventually could pick up as much as pick 12 for Ebert.

View attachment 426248
Assuming we have to pay a 4th round for the Sneezer, then Ebert is equivalent to pick 13.

View attachment 426249

So Whilst I realise we got screwed on the Ebert deal, there is some Karma if we pull off the Sneezer deal for pennies.

Recruiting the Sneezer means we start working on his brother in 2 years time.

It also addresses the age profile gap in the club - Yeo and McInnes are the only 2 players from that draft cohort on our list and McInnes is holding on tentatively.

And yes I know points are only one way of measuring, it calms me down a little on the Ebert screw over.

Someone has too much time on their hands.

 

[Jootube]

If we get Ah Chee with our 4th.
Still sucks.

I think we need to accept that the Ebert deal is a sunk cost. Best way to do that is sink Port's season again next year.

 

[larrikin]

Bartell made a point today that clubs in positions like ours should get in a 3rd party to conduct a list analysis report.

What will that achieve? Identify we need more pace in the midfield and some succession planning on forwards?

 

[jesterwester]

I think given where we sit age wise, we should be aiming for a flag. Yes, all the old timers have left us this year- but our core players are all in that 24- 28 range. (where historically they should be at the peak of their powers)

Losing both Mitchell and Priddis will be interesting next year for our midfield- but it's just a new opportunity for guys like sheed/Duggan/venables/redden/partington to stand up. Add maybe another midfielder at the draft this year, with a fit NN & Lycett - we will have rejuvenated the side and will be an unknown quantity. Which is very exciting, I think.

FWIW- I think Vardy will head to CHF next year should our main rucks be back next year, with Kennedy to stay closer to home.

 

[Agent93]

What will that achieve? Identify we need more pace in the midfield and some succession planning on forwards?

Ideally it would either confirm or deny ratings on individual players, comparatively profile the list to other AFL clubs.

Good data, rather than "we think LeCras is due for another big game/season/whatever".

 

[Onefortheages]

Whats daniel richs contract status? I hear he would like to play at least some of his career from his home state. Maybe we could make a pitch for him?

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Ah Chee will be ok I guess. Seeing how we've done so well with past trades (Wellingham, Jetta and Redden) recently it's hard to get excited about recruiting mid range dudes these days