2017 trade/draft thread

[Eastern Rangers]

Eastern Rangers I'd be interested in your view on Patmore. He has his detractors on here but from what I've seen I think he's easily a second round talent this year. Good by hand, neat by foot (not great), high production. I don't know how quick he tests but he seems to move well laterally.

I don’t think he’s really got a lot of hurt factor. I’ve seen lots of players of his type come through the system, guys that can find the ball and use it reasonably well but he’s the type who likes the game on very particular terms.




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[Monocle]

I don’t think he’s really got a lot of hurt factor. I’ve seen lots of players of his type come through the system, guys that can find the ball and use it reasonably well but he’s the type who likes the game on very particular terms.




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Pretty much this.... no hurt factor.
Well said ER.

 

[swannies]

Yeah, I'm sure NN tapping to Sheed will be pretty dynamic.

Well, now that he will get more midfield priority time we might actually be able to find out. I remember at an U18s carnival game I was watching, against SA at Lathlain, he was pretty dynamic out of the midfield.

 

[gsmiths_s]

Giving up a first round pick, in a superdraft for a 2nd rounders in what has been described as a weak draft, is mind boggling.

In a 'superdraft' like 2001 a first round pick could still give you a Luke Molan (9), Ashley Watson (14) or Barry Brooks (15). Even Shane Harvey (18) brother of Brent was a bust.

Steve Johnsen (24), Sam Mitchell (36), Leigh Mogtana (37), Dane Swan (58) and Brian Lake (71) just a few later notables...

Carrazzo, Sandilands and Boyd were rookies.

So fuve to ten positions in a superdraft? Not a problem...

As for second rounders this draft? Better heap of earlier selections before 30 in a thinner draft then filling 3+ positions with picks after 30.

 

[Colonel Kurtz]

When the only reason that the club states for doing this is the number of vacancies on the list due primarily to retirements what i hear is a club in denial. Our list is declining rather than appreciating in potential. When you are out of a flag window and your list is declining that is called a time for a rebuild. But the people running the club don't want to face the reality of where we are. Instead they pull stupid moves at the trade table to give themselves a chance to be a hero at the draft table and thereby avoid the unpleasant reality.

To me they remind me a gambler at the casino who is busy withdrawing 2k from the ATM so he can keep gambling untill he gets back the 1k he has already lost and get back to square so he doesn't have to wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and realise he just lost his weeks pay cheque.

 

[footballfreak]

Dumb ass supporters complaining about swapping the draft picks. It was a good deal, we now have multiple picks in the top 50. We're planning for the present.

Next year Gold coast are going to be bad ,guaranteeing us a top 2nd round pick from 19 to early 20s. And I see us trading away one of our top stars for early first round draft picks if we have a bad year.

 

[Suma Magic]

In anyone's language.

Just lost your midfield core, undoubtedly will slide down the table in 2018 on the back of a new midfield mix taking time to find it's feet, youngsters getting up to speed in the middle, slide down the ladder, that first round pick becomes more valuable.

Just gave it away - for some chump picks in a weaker draft, it's one of the worst decisions I've seen.

You just gave away 3 of your first 4 picks in the superdraft.

 

[Obeanie1]

My selections for 2017 draft

13. Hunter Clark
21. Lochie O'Brien
26. Tim Kelly
32. Brandan Starcevich
37. Ben Miller
69. Liam Ryan

Rookie's
Hayden Schloithe
Scott Jones
Cody Ninyette

Noice choices.

Ben Miller is a definate chance with 37. We are champs at pulling a kp player late and developing them. A two way bet on a kp back or forward to cover Kennedy, EMac and Schofield retiring in 2 to 3 years.

Or do we wait and see if a quality ruck / forward slides to 37. Again a each way bet to cover FF and the ruck in 3 years?

Someone like Tom De Koning or Colman-Jones?

After losing Giles and Petrie we are down two rucks / forwards. Jones as a rookie pick helps.

 

[Colonel Kurtz]

I think we should get this debate back on to a more fact based footing rather than an emotion based footing. It is boring reading posts from people running around trying to prove they are the clubs biggest supporter in the world by bagging those with less optimism about the future than them.

What are the fact based differences between those who think this is a good idea vrs those don't? Like i say, i think the odds of finding a successfull player with picks between 25 and 40 in any draft are no better than 1 in 8. And i think playing 120 games is a good marker of where a drafted player can be deemed to have been a success or not. And i think it is obvious that if this is a weak draft then those odds obviously blow out further.

Do the people backing this trade think that the odds of drafting a successfull player between picks 25 and 40 are better than 1 in 8 (and worse in a weak draft) and i am being pessismistic about the general odds? Or do you agree that this is a fair and accurate description of the odds but think that we are so good at drafting that we will be able to beat these odds and find successfull players with these picks anyway?

 

[Godfather32]

When the only reason that the club states for doing this is the number of vacancies on the list due primarily to retirements what i hear is a club in denial. Our list is declining rather than appreciating in potential. When you are out of a flag window and your list is declining that is called a time for a rebuild. But the people running the club don't want to face the reality of where we are. Instead they pull stupid moves at the trade table to give themselves a chance to be a hero at the draft table and thereby avoid the unpleasant reality.

To me they remind me a gambler at the casino who is busy withdrawing 2k from the ATM so he can keep gambling untill he gets back the 1k he has already lost and get back to square so he doesn't have to wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and realise he just lost his weeks pay cheque.

Pretty weird way to look at what we've done. To me the club not facing reality this off-season would have been for us to bring in a bunch of mediocre, overpaid, aging free agents to top the list up. Instead we've brought in what looks to be a young, decent, underutilised midfielder and then completely reamed GC in order to actually do a mini-rebuild and bring in a bunch of young guys to develop. Don't see how you could be unhappy with this trade period given the lack of tradeable assets we had to work with.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Pretty weird way to look at what we've done. To me the club not facing reality this off-season would have been for us to bring in a bunch of mediocre, overpaid, aging free agents to top the list up. Instead we've brought in what looks to be a young, decent, underutilised midfielder and then completely reamed GC in order to actually do a mini-rebuild and bring in a bunch of young guys to develop. Don't see how you could be unhappy with this trade period given the lack of tradeable assets we had to work with.

Yep. Its the attitude change that has me excited, pity its taken so long!

 

[former lurker]

Like I said in an earlier post, the competition is fierce on this board. Although I don't think that is fair to be levelled at matt_bas, he generally doesn't compete for the knob head cup with any great success. That is for others you have nominated in this thread.

My dig at Matt was light hearted, hard not to like the fella . I think most of us know the leaders in the "knob head" cup.


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[Colonel Kurtz]

Pretty weird way to look at what we've done. To me the club not facing reality this off-season would have been for us to bring in a bunch of mediocre, overpaid, aging free agents to top the list up. Instead we've brought in what looks to be a young, decent, underutilised midfielder and then completely reamed GC in order to actually do a mini-rebuild and bring in a bunch of young guys to develop. Don't see how you could be unhappy with this trade period given the lack of tradeable assets we had to work with.

I don't think our problems are fixable at the trade table. You can't trade your way to success. Success comes from years of astute drafting and development. If you have a prolonged period of time where you are average or worse than average at doing this you can't suddenly catapult yourself out of the hole by being "aggressive" at the trade table here as many posters here often put it.

 

[Godfather32]

Yep. Its the attitude change that has me excited, pity its taken so long!

It's almost a complete about face, hopefully it means that whoever has been influencing our list management decisions in the recent past has been pushed well and truly into the background.

 

[Biggie]

it's one of the worst decisions I've seen.

Given the club you support, you’d be well versed in worst decisions.

Your opinion, is your opinion. Best of luck in 2018.

 

[former lurker]

Would be hard to top extending Lyons contract till 2020 as the worst decision in the last few years.

Not sure why anyone gives this dick the time of day ?


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[bh90210fan]

I think we should get this debate back on to a more fact based footing rather than an emotion based footing. It is boring reading posts from people running around trying to prove they are the clubs biggest supporter in the world by bagging those with less optimism about the future than them.

What are the fact based differences between those who think this is a good idea vrs those don't? Like i say, i think the odds of finding a successfull player with picks between 25 and 40 in any draft are no better than 1 in 8. And i think playing 120 games is a good marker of where a drafted player can be deemed to have been a success or not. And i think it is obvious that if this is a weak draft then those odds obviously blow out further.

Do the people backing this trade think that the odds of drafting a successfull player between picks 25 and 40 are better than 1 in 8 (and worse in a weak draft) and i am being pessismistic about the general odds? Or do you agree that this is a fair and accurate description of the odds but think that we are so good at drafting that we will be able to beat these odds and find successfull players with these picks anyway?

Mate we got ah chee for nothing and 3 second rounders for a maximum 10 pick slide in next years draft. Cheer up it’s a good deal

 

[Godfather32]

I don't think our problems are fixable at the trade table. You can't trade your way to success. Success comes from years of astute drafting and development. If you have a prolonged period of time where you are average or worse than average at doing this you can't suddenly catapult yourself out of the hole by being "aggressive" at the trade table here as many posters here often put it.

But we basically only traded for more draft picks. So you want us to build the team by using the draft but a trade that costs us no players and brings in a bunch of draft picks to do this with doesn't make you happy? I think you're just being negative for the sake of it to be honest.

 

[Mincho]

Well, now that he will get more midfield priority time we might actually be able to find out. I remember at an U18s carnival game I was watching, against SA at Lathlain, he was pretty dynamic out of the midfield.

He was a safe pick, with a limitied ceiling - nothing has changed.

 

[Monocle]

Colonel Klink.



Kindly requests that

Colonel Kurtz.



Try becoming a bit more optimistic.

 

[Colonel Kurtz]

But we basically only traded for more draft picks. So you want us to build the team by using the draft but a trade that costs us no players and brings in a bunch of draft picks to do this with doesn't make you happy? I think you're just being negative for the sake of it to be honest.

I just don't let my love for the club colour my view of the odds of success of a given move it makes. I think it is going to be very hard to find quality players with those picks.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

You've gone into a vanilla draft - where the top end talent dips after the first 5 with picks in the 20-30 range hoping to land one.

It's unbelievably stupid.

Weird perception. The top four midfielders are as good as any year and then the quality runs through into the mid 20’s. Beyond that there is a drop off and things become a bit more speculative.

The major difference between this year and next year is the a matter of degrees not of types. Top end types look to run through to ten and the quality lasts twice as long.

It’s not like WC don’t have picks next year anyway.


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[bUCKET__]

I just don't let my love for the club colour my view of the odds of success of a given move it makes. I think it is going to be very hard to find quality players with those picks.

You seem like you know a bit about odds, I bet you're great fun at a casino.

 

[Obeanie1]

Mate we got ah chee for nothing and 3 second rounders for a maximum 10 pick slide in next years draft. Cheer up it’s a good deal

Four second rounders for a 10 pick downgrade and pick 50 actually.

 

[Bender_]

Oh look, Muncho's in here for his nightly dose of attention whoring.