List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 2

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Yawkey way

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I don't get what the pay to those guys has to do with Roberton. Can you explain. Of course we have to overpay them otherwise they wont leave. Nearly every good player that leaves a club gets overpaid at their next club.
I don't get what the pay to those guys has to do with Roberton. Can you explain. Of course we have to overpay them otherwise they wont leave. Nearly every good player that leaves a club gets overpaid at their next club.
the AFL have a hard cap as you know, by the time you take into account all the league rule on minimum salary, 3 draft picks, bonus for games played etc it's bloody complicated.

Now fit your best 22 plus 6 to cover and another 12 plus rookies into that cap. If you overpay any player by a fair margin over replacement then it means you either have to trade out players and go young, which affects your depth. The other option is to kick the can down the road and underpay say billings and take a chance by letting him come out of contract and lose him to a higher bidder.

The whole list management job is one long balancing act mixed in with Texas holdem poker, robbo has called our bluff next it will be a Ross or paddy McCartin. As we like to say about GWS you can't keep them all, this is where paying hickey to play two's is unsustainable, going long on armo in hindsight etc.

Yes you always pay a premium to get an A grader in the door but the more you overpay against replacement value the more difficult it is to manage your cap and retain a winning list.
 

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Maybe the improvement in Sinclair and Billings means their asking price has skyrocketed, a big payday for "Kelly and one other", (and we have no idea who and how good that other might be) means Robbo's form lift has caught the club by surprise?
Do we judge him on this years form alone or the whole of his previous contract? If Carlisle and Brown hadn't been so good would Roberton have as much licence to run?
With Stratton and Birchall getting older and injured, Hodge retiring and Gibson on his last legs, Roberton's height, run and disposal skills particularly his willingness and ability to hit targets going through the centre of the ground when most back men keep disposal efficiency high by going backwards and wide to an unmarked man, make him a no-brainer for Hawthorn to target.
Maybe it comes down to a choice between Roberton or Sinclair, if so I'll take the Jack.
I don't think Robo's form would have caught the club by surprise. Even in 2015 he was a gun. Top 5 in our B& F from memory
 

plugger66

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the AFL have a hard cap as you know, by the time you take into account all the league rule on minimum salary, 3 draft picks, bonus for games played etc it's bloody complicated.

Now fit your best 22 plus 6 to cover and another 12 plus rookies into that cap. If you overpay any player by a fair margin over replacement then it means you either have to trade out players and go young, which affects your depth. The other option is to kick the can down the road and underpay say billings and take a chance by letting him come out of contract and lose him to a higher bidder.

The whole list management job is one long balancing act mixed in with Texas holdem poker, robbo has called our bluff next it will be a Ross or paddy McCartin. As we like to say about GWS you can't keep them all, this is where paying hickey to play two's is unsustainable, going long on armo in hindsight etc.

Yes you always pay a premium to get an A grader in the door but the more you overpay against replacement value the more difficult it is to manage your cap and retain a winning list.

I understand how it all works but I also hear how good Bains is and he has all the information we don't have. Also the rumour which maybe crap about Roberton is happening this year when we probably have over a million in the cap. No one is getting overpaid but people are saying Roberton might be looking elsewhere. That is the reason I don't see the link about overpaying to get a player from another club and Roberton wanting more money this year. Boyd is overpaid at WB. Even his mum would think that but JJ is signing up again this year. If we don't overpay a very good to champion player then most likely he wont be playing for us.

I think we just need to trust Bains. Simple as that. He will pay what we can afford. I reckon he knows the value of everyone of our players. If one wants to leave it will be because a club is willing to overpay that player. Same as what we will have to do if we want a star.
 

Yawkey way

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I understand how it all works but I also hear how good Bains is and he has all the information we don't have. Also the rumour which maybe crap about Roberton is happening this year when we probably have over a million in the cap. No one is getting overpaid but people are saying Roberton might be looking elsewhere. That is the reason I don't see the link about overpaying to get a player from another club and Roberton wanting more money this year. Boyd is overpaid at WB. Even his mum would think that but JJ is signing up again this year. If we don't overpay a very good to champion player then most likely he wont be playing for us.

I think we just need to trust Bains. Simple as that. He will pay what we can afford. I reckon he knows the value of everyone of our players. If one wants to leave it will be because a club is willing to overpay that player. Same as what we will have to do if we want a star.
Exactly so you know full well the impact of overpaying, it makes you make choices you wish you didn't have to.

The Bulldogs got lucky they have a lot of young players coming into their prime and pinched a flag. Now just watch, poor Boyd is feeling it with people saying he should take a pay cut. How many do you think they can stump up johannisen money for before others leave for better money somewhere else?.

I do trust Baines I just hope we can save some money elsewhere and keep roberton happy. Really anytime you look at your reserve's and go gee we have great depth then you have either drafted really well or you are about to lose some players.

That's the way the system is meant to work.
 

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Exactly so you know full well the impact of overpaying, it makes you make choices you wish you didn't have to.

The Bulldogs got lucky they have a lot of young players coming into their prime and pinched a flag. Now just watch, poor Boyd is feeling it with people saying he should take a pay cut. How many do you think they can stump up johannisen money for before others leave for better money somewhere else?.

I do trust Baines I just hope we can save some money elsewhere and keep roberton happy. Really anytime you look at your reserve's and go gee we have great depth then you have either drafted really well or you are about to lose some players.

That's the way the system is meant to work.

I don't know the impact of overpaying at all. You have to overpay to get a player from another club. I don't get why Roberton looking at offers links him to overpaying. Of course Bains will save money. You are writing as if he has no idea what he is doing.

As for WB all I know are the facts and Boyd was overpaid and they signed JJ. And they won a flag. St Kilda stuffed up in 09 and 10 because they overpaid their own players. Our list was poorly managed. Our recruiting was terrible. From the outside that looks a thing of the past including payments to players.
 

Yawkey way

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And this after they tried to steal Carlisle from under our noses too!
That little campaigner Clarko even chased him down overseas didn't he.

My offseason dream is that Collingwood poach Clarko who then runs amok there and hawthorn stumble around and in a panic appoint someone with no idea.

No one goes to a club in turmoil, I could live with hawthorn and Collingwood being down for years.
 

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plugger66

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I can't believe what im reading. If we loose Roberton for 600-700. It will be one of the dumbest things weve done. FFS pay him what he wants. Its not like we cant afford it. He's one of our best players!

I was listened to Dal on SEN a couple of weeks back and he said Rance was the best back and he would pay him around 800k. Sounded slightly low to me but around the mark. Based on that and what people believe JJ just signed for I reckon Robbo is at best a 600K player. That would be my limit. If we lose him with that huge wage then That's life. He cant earn more than Steven who is our best player in a really vital position.
 

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I was listened to Dal on SEN a couple of weeks back and he said Rance was the best back and he would pay him around 800k. Sounded slightly low to me but around the mark. Based on that and what people believe JJ just signed for I reckon Robbo is at best a 600K player. That would be my limit. If we lose him with that huge wage then That's life. He cant earn more than Steven who is our best player in a really vital position.
**** that! Were so infront of our cap. If we have to pay him an extra 100k to sign him, then thats what we do! He's an absolute gun off hb. Will be a huge loss.. I swear i'll lose my shit if this happens.
 

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I was listened to Dal on SEN a couple of weeks back and he said Rance was the best back and he would pay him around 800k. Sounded slightly low to me but around the mark. Based on that and what people believe JJ just signed for I reckon Robbo is at best a 600K player. That would be my limit. If we lose him with that huge wage then That's life. He cant earn more than Steven who is our best player in a really vital position.
But you'd pay $1.4 per year for Kelly who would walk up be a top 5 player at the club......just like Roberton. Seems like bad management to lose him over $50 grand or something but then go all in on someone else gun. I'm not a genius but can you tell me why that is a good idea?
 

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**** that! Were so infront of our cap. If we have to pay him an extra 100k to sign him, then thats what we do! He's an absolute gun off hb. Will be a huge loss.. I swear i'll lose my shit if this happens.

He is a HBF. He is a Saints player already. He probably needs at least 700k to leave if we offer 600K. We don't want to overpay our own players. 700k is at least 100k to much for him. We have plenty in the cap but that doesn't mean we need to give every good player more than they deserve.
 

sverik25

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He is a HBF. He is a Saints player already. He probably needs at least 700k to leave if we offer 600K. We don't want to overpay our own players. 700k is at least 100k to much for him. We have plenty in the cap but that doesn't mean we need to give every good player more than they deserve.
It would be a lot easier to argue that before the recent increase in the salary cap.
 

plugger66

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But you'd pay $1.4 per year for Kelly who would walk up be a top 5 player at the club......just like Roberton. Seems like bad management to lose him over $50 grand or something but then go all in on someone else gun. I'm not a genius but can you tell me why that is a good idea?

I cant get involved in silly arguments. One is a mid, probably the most important position on the ground. The other is a HBF who is already at our club. No idea what 50K has to do with it. What if its 200k? If you are going to make up figures so will I. And have I ever said I would pay Kelly 1.4 million. Based on your top 5 theory you must rate every player in every position as similar or the same wages? Not sure it works like that. Well I am. It doesn't.
 

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I cant get involved in silly arguments. One is a mid, probably the most important position on the ground. The other is a HBF who is already at our club. No idea what 50K has to do with it. What if its 200k? If you are going to make up figures so will I. And have I ever said I would pay Kelly 1.4 million. Based on your top 5 theory you must rate every player in every position as similar or the same wages? Not sure it works like that. Well I am. It doesn't.
Stop it Lol
 

gringo2011

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He is a HBF. He is a Saints player already. He probably needs at least 700k to leave if we offer 600K. We don't want to overpay our own players. 700k is at least 100k to much for him. We have plenty in the cap but that doesn't mean we need to give every good player more than they deserve.

But surely the idea of list management is to improve the quality of your list. Kelly is player who has had around 20 to 30 games as an elite outside mid. Roberson is an elite running back. I don't think Dal is very realistic on salaries, he often says that certain players are only worth about half of what the media suggest. Backs traditionally don't get forward or mid money but Scott Lucas said Rance would be worth over $1 million PA and he's an actual player manager. Guys like Roberton are more like mids than those stodgy Jamie Shannahan style plodders.

I can't see how paying huge money to get in a quality kid on huge money while jettisoning one of your best players over $100,000 extra would be sensible.

You basically lose a top 5 player who took $700,000 a year for a guy on $1.4 million -means we really are break even or very slightly ahead but paying heaps more. Much more likely to lose quality players later on too.

We should just pay Robbo $1.5 in his first contract year then a pittance later.
 
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