List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & Free Agency Discussion Thread

[Heaps of fun]

A lot of Hall talk but I haven't seen anything that suggests he's even up for trade.

 

[Groin guru]

Spider and I nearest the pin. What do we win?

In all seriousness you are correct. I said this in the trade forum a couple of weeks earlier:

"I thought the same until i saw Kelly carrying: swisse supplements, a big mac, gatorade bottles, coca-cola yoyo, slab of carlton draught, woolworths rewards points form, newest tissot, a mars bar, virgin australia free flights, free stamps, thrifty car rental vouchers, wolf blass and jim bean bottle, new spectacles from opsm, coates hire coupon, accor hotels voucher, muscle milk box, 600ml pump with lemon, Dewalt set from bunnings, rebel sports vouchers, a brand new sherrin, goodlife lifetime membership, zxu compression shorts, a couple boxes of radiant laundry powder, jlt/gio/mlc life insurance/hostplus membership packs, free one month subscription to foxtel go, telstra bigpond modem, a drinkwise sticker, david beckham cologne from chemist warehouse, and a nab credit card with no annual fee. He loaded it up into his brand new toyota hiLux.

The perks of doing right by the AFL. They look after you."

The AFL always wins!

 

[Snake_Baker]

They got to you Tef?

Crows haven't wallowed around the early draft picks at all. We got Ben Brown, Kayne Turner, Hibberd, Mountford Larkey to name a few have all arrived via later picks.

I've noticed some comms coming out of the club of late exonerating results because of a 'lack of talent'. Strikes me as a bit of a cop-out.

We were good enough to beat pretty much everyone in the top 8 in 2014 which suggested we had comparable talent but couldn't finish the job. Ditto 2015 to a lesser extent.

The Crows have never bottomed out, but the Crows have also not won a flag for 20 years.

I don't think they are a solid basis to support any drafting model.

They are only really a chance this year because the season is so weak. It's an outlier.

 

[Harris 10]

They are only really a chance this year because the season is so weak. It's an outlier.

I don't think it is an outlier, last year was just as poor.
With the addition of the two new teams i think this is likely to become the norm.

 

[remfan101]

The Crows have never bottomed out, but the Crows have also not won a flag for 20 years.

I don't think they are a solid basis to support any drafting model.

They are only really a chance this year because the season is so weak. It's an outlier.

I don't buy that at all, the crows are a bloody good team this year, with very few weaknesses. They'd be contending in any year in recent memory imo

 

[Snake_Baker]

I don't think it is an outlier, last year was just as poor.
With the addition of the two new teams i think this is likely to become the norm.

Maybe so, but that remains to be seen.

At this point, It's an outlier relative to the 20 year time bracket I mentioned.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

I'd love to see us get Stringer. He's 23, played almost 100 games, premiership player and AA, he has X-factor and swagger - something we lack at North. If we can orchestrate a trade involving Goldstein, I'd be all for it.

 

[Arathrawn]

Hall is 26, an elite outside runner and accumulator, and gettable, we'd be stupid not to have a look. GC are apparently much keener on players than picks, so what about Swallow, Mullett and 43 for Hall and a pick in the 70s? Both would be in their 22, and Swallow in particular would add a lot to a team lacking leadership.

I agree Hall would be a decent addition.

However before trade eon starts I'd like to throw out there that we aren't getting quality for junk. Talking of trading picks in the 70's, Swallow, Mullet is just wasting breath. Same for LT, Daw, Wagner. It's literally a rehash of the old LA and a 3rd rounder.

 

[Rooboys Rool]

Doing another of my trade scenarios, so please skip if you're not into it. But I have based this one more on a realistic attempt at what I would do if I was our list manager rather than just a fantasy scenario.

Firstly, our list is quite delicately poised. We have brought in a large number of young players in the last several years and most of them have showed something worth persisting with or it's too early to tell. We also still have quite a lot of older players that will need to be moved on in the next few years, however we don't want to go down the path of having a full clean out too soon as these experienced players are important for the development of our youth.

Looking at our out of contract players:
Hansen - gone.
Thompson - Had a good year. Finished 9th in the B&F. Still have a lot of youth and/or injury prone players in the backline and I would offer a one year contract to provide an experienced head down there. Problem is that other teams may offer him a two year contract as a free agent. If this was the case I wouldn't match and let him go, even though it's doubtful we will get any compensation.
Mullett - Had a solid year. 15th in our B&F. But likely others in front of him for next year, which would align with talk, if true, that he's been told to look elsewhere. Good example of selling high - can't see that we would ever get as much for him as we will this year. Look to trade.
Jacobs - Unsure of injury status, but he is young enough and shown enough in finals that he could be an important part of a premiership tilt. Wouldn't risk losing him by trying to delist and re-rookie. Offer a 1 year contract.
Mountford - Sign him up!. Offer 2-3 year contract.
Wagner - Has shown a bit, but not a lot. Wouldn't be the end of the world to lose him, but I think it's too early to make a call and he's shown enough for another year to see what he's got.
Waite - His best is obviously still great, but I can't justify holding onto a 35 yr old injury prone player when we are trying to rebuild/reset. Delist.
Gibson - Had a good year, finishing 7th in the B&F. Could go either way considering age and we need to bring in at least 3 players through the draft. He is clearly still good enough, but he also plays a position with a number of young players coming through and it would depend on other movements as to whether we give him a 1 yr contract.

Based on the above, first player movements would be:
Hansen - Delist
Waite - Delist
Mullett - Trade. Considering the relative weakness/strength of the 2017/18 drafts, I'd aim to upgrade a 2018 pick. Something like an additional late 3rd or early 4th rd pick feels about right, but not sure how we will go with that as teams will be reluctant to part with 2018 picks. Perhaps swap our 4th for another team's 3rd. Aiming for about 200 extra points, valuing him at about pick 55 in next year's draft.

That gives 3 spots for the draft, but I think we should look to add Balic from Freo. Basing that on his draft year rather than anything I've seen since, but he is another Marley buy low type scenario. If his issues are as stated, I would be surprised if Freo didn't let him to to the club of his choice for a junk pick - e.g. our pick 76.

Picking up Balic means we need to cut at least one more player, so need to start looking at contracted players. The obvious choice here is Thomas. Whilst he's a heart and soul type player, selection this year showed that he will most likely be playing reserves all next year, then probably delisted at the end of 2018. This isn't a great outcome for either player or club. I could see a club that needs work on its forward line picking him up for a couple of years if the price was low, and we should facilitate that extension of his career. Something like our pick 62 to Carlton for their pick 56 would be about right.

This isn't a very strong draft from all reports, but at the stage our list development is at we need to still keep bringing in kids and I would be in favour of taking 4 picks rather than 3. This requires another player moving out. Could be Thompson leaving as a free agent. Could be Gibson delisted or traded for another late pick swap. Other option would be Swallow. Lot of leadership qualities there I wouldn't want to lose and his back half of the season was clearly best 22. But I do worry that any drop off in form and/or a selection policy in favour of youth will see him in the reserves all year with the same outcome as noted for Thomas above. If that's the case and we can extend his career by sending him to the Gold Coast for a late pick swap, we should do that. Would have to wait to see how trade eon develops for this one, but I'll nominally make the call of trading out Gibbo and 56 for about pick 50.

On other possible additions:
Stringer, Libba, Dahlhaus - The minute I saw someone mention Chris Yarran in relation to Stringer, it was a no to all Bulldogs players for me. Something smells not quite right down there at the moment and I don't want that coming to North. Besides, Libba and Dahlhaus are both free agents next year, so not in favour of compromising draft position when we could get them free next year if still available.
Hall, Rockliff - Whilst relatively young, I still think they're too old for where our list is at as they quite possibly wouldn't be best 22 by our next serious flag tilt. Also not keen on what we would have to give up to get them whether that be draft picks or just the requirement to cut another player.

In summary or TLDR, my list movements this year would be:

Hansen - delist
Waite - delist
Mullett - Trade for 2018 pick. Nominally an upgrade of our 4th rd pick to another team's 3rd rd pick.
Thomas - Trade. Nominally with pick 62 to Carlton for pick 56.
Gibson - Trade. Nominally with pick 56 to Geelong for pick 51.
Pick 76 to Freo for Balic.

Outs: Hansen, Waite, Mullett, Thomas & Gibson.
Ins: Picks 4, 21, 44 & 51 and Balic.

Would love to trade up into more 1st/2nd rd picks, but I don't think this is the year to do it. Hold fire on that until next year.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Mullet is uncontracted and has been asked to look elsewhere.

He is worth nothing in trade.

 

[Kimbo]

I think the Suns are in desperate need of players with the character of Swallow. Players that have a club first mentality.

And, for the most part, consistency of performance, week to week.

 

[kangaspurs]

If Gaff is available then I think we should at least inquire about his price.

He's still 25, former AA and BnF winner in a year they made the GF, and would play the same role as Gibson, but be a significant upgrade in the class department. Sure, he's a bit soft and purely an outside mid but if we have room for Gibbo then we definitely have room for a Gaff type.

I imagine they'd probably want a first rounder for him, but if Mountford wanted to go home then maybe we could do a deal there. Mountford and 21 for Gaff maybe?

 

[big_e]

If you apply the following constraints:

• No 1-3 year players available for trade
• No best 22 player under 25 available for trade
• No key position players under 30 available for trade
• No players with genuine run (ie Atley or Clarke) available for trade
• Our ruck stocks are too shallow to risk trading Goldstein
• Only interested in trading for meaningful picks - say.. pick 40 or earlier (ie player needs to have a certain trade value)

Then the only options I can think of are Mullett and MacMillan.

Not saying I'd advocate trading them but they're the only players who came to mind who could broker a decent trade while not creating irreparable damage to list structure. I'm not considering the morale factor of trading a leader like Jamie in this equation.

Agree with all of this except for the moratorium on trading Goldy. If we are going down the rebuild route now, then he is tradeable, on the proviso that we keep Preuss and Daw and bring in a ready to go substitute, even if only on the rookie list.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

His start to 2015 was excellent. Was up there in the Brownlow before falling away.

He's been dropped a few times this year so there could be attitude issues there. I'd be keen as long as he's committed. The club would have to do a thorough investigation, like with anyone coming out of the GC.

Edit- might've been 2016

Have met him personally and a mate worked with him.
Attitude is not an issue if that's anything to go by. Absolutely obsessed with footy and devoted to training hard.

Was way undersized the year before his draft and was written off as a possible pick up by many due to his height. Had a growth spurt of over a foot which saw him picked up, but before the growth spurt he trained his ass off to try and overcome the height negatives

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Joyce needs to work hard and be creative this time.

If he cant, he needs to go.

Joyce isn't our trade guy anymore. How do people still not know this?

 

[Thewlis Dish]

I imagine they'd probably want a first rounder for him, but if Mountford wanted to go home then maybe we could do a deal there. Mountford and 21 for Gaff maybe?

St Kilda would offer 7 or 8 in a heartbeat so that would be your starting point.

Gaff has made the last three AA squads and still has a year to run. You're not getting him for Mountford and a pick in the 20s. Probably more like 4 and 21 for Gaff and 13, which would value Gaff at around pick 7.

4 and 21 are probably not great picks to have to go after established players.

 

[kangaspurs]

St Kilda would offer 7 or 8 in a heartbeat so that would be your starting point.

Gaff has made the last three AA squads and still has a year to run. You're not getting him for Mountford and a pick in the 20s. Probably more like 4 and 21 for Gaff and 13, which would value Gaff at around pick 7.

4 and 21 are probably not great picks to have to go after established players.

Yeah, good post. I agree with all of that. Can't see it being done, but I really like him as a player and think he'd be a perfect replacement for Gibbo.

Like you say though, we probably don't have the picks required to trade in any players given we'd want to keep 4. I've seen 21 for Dahlhaus floated a few times, but I doubt that would be enough as well. If we trade in any players this year I think they're more likely to be similar to the Williams and Hrovat deals.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

If Gaff is available then I think we should at least inquire about his price.

He's still 25, former AA and BnF winner in a year they made the GF, and would play the same role as Gibson, but be a significant upgrade in the class department. Sure, he's a bit soft and purely an outside mid but if we have room for Gibbo then we definitely have room for a Gaff type.

I imagine they'd probably want a first rounder for him, but if Mountford wanted to go home then maybe we could do a deal there. Mountford and 21 for Gaff maybe?

Would cost us more than that and pick 4 is off the table.

 

[Donkey Chop]

And, for the most part, consistency of performance, week to week.

I hope they didn't watch him too closely this year....

 

[sbdan]

A lot of Hall talk but I haven't seen anything that suggests he's even up for trade.

We are doing it again. Maybe we should start a new thread and then be shattered when it doesn't eventuate.

 

[Harris 10]

His start to 2015 was excellent. Was up there in the Brownlow before falling away.

He's been dropped a few times this year so there could be attitude issues there. I'd be keen as long as he's committed. The club would have to do a thorough investigation, like with anyone coming out of the GC.

Edit- might've been 2016

He's s a one way runner, that's why he was dropped.

I can just imagine our midfield setup if we add Hall.
Every clearance we lose you'll look back to where the ball came from and Ziebell, Cunnington Dumont and Swallow(if he stays) will be trailing their opponents in by 20 metres and Hall will still be standing at the contest.

The issues we have in the midfield won't be addressed by getting a player like Hall.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

A lot of Hall talk but I haven't seen anything that suggests he's even up for trade.

Have heard from a source or two he's gettable. Re-signed but is not happy at the suns, Doesn't get on well with some of the coaches up there or some such.

There was an article the other day saying that 6+ suns had been told they would be on the trade table if anyone would take them, Hall and someone else were also mentioned as being undecided on by the club regarding trading, but open to it.

 

[Firestarter]

Joyce isn't our trade guy anymore. How do people still not know this?

I'll be nice and assume they know he's the GM of football and they believe it's still his fault.

 

[Dodecahedron]

Breaking news:

No-one has nominated us.
No-one is linked to us.
No-one in the media thinks anyone would benefit from coming to us.

I'll let you know more when I get more from my sources.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Get rockliff and Motlop as free agents

And hit the draft with our 2 early picks

lets not go down this path just yet, I say two best available with 4 and 21 and then high risk high reward with the remaining picks, long run if we jag a diamond or two from the later picks. it will be far more important than having two established b graders added to our squad for 2018. I am happy to go through another year of pain for the ultimate success.

If we can upgrade a few picks by trading some established 29 and overs I am happy to do that too.

I could even be tempted (but doubt it) to trade 4 out for a first and second next year, with say Melbourne who will be desperate to land another first rounder for Lever, very risky but could reap massive rewards.