2017 vs 2025 - more talented side?

[Crow till I die]

Just based on the drafting (number of high end picks we have in the side) 2025 has to be the better side and its got years of upside ahead too. 2017 was coming to the end of its run.

 

[Truck25]

I think you need to factor age and games played (I haven't done the deep dive), I suspect the 2025 is a much younger inexperienced side and that when this current side reaches the same age/games profile should be well ahead of the 2017 side. So barring some disaster like a camp we should be in for a wild ride the next 5-10 years.

 

[ABAB]

This list hasn't peaked yet, it will eventually be better than 2017.

 

[Apsaalooke]

We had a good side in 2017 albeit with more spuds in Knight/Mackay/Atkins/Hartigan/Kelly than today with Murphy somehow cemented in the team. We went in with a better coach but over confident and too tall with a cooked Ottens, played some sore guys then some injuries in the game, alleged punch up between Tex and Jake at half time, questionable umpiring (Stevic) but most of all we sh@t the bed. If we do somehow make it to the GF I worry our coaches will make similar errors

 

[Cromulant]

Im interested to see which direction we take our forwardline post-Tex.

The 2017 side had equal, if not more scoring avenues, and a better midfield/ruck.

I think this current group has more talent and COULD get that elusive flag but who knows.

 

[OzSparrow]

all good observations except this side cant beat top sides and pykes side did....all the time. just lost a granny. Please dont weaken a previous sides exploits to fill a narrative about this one. We have potential, we are far, by far very far away from the 2017 side. We havent even reached the 2016 side yet.

Totally agree.
Finishing on top in 2017 with the highest percentage by far showed that we not only beat others but we smashed them.
8-3 dominance at home plus 7-3-1 results away showed just how confident we were in the H&A.
Complete dominance in our 2 home finals also showed how complete a footy team we were in 2017.
Apart from the appalling R7 10 goal loss to the Kangas in Hobart where in Q1 they scored 10 goals and we failed to score, the GF was the only bad game we played all year and we couldn't cope with the hype around Richmond in the buildup and the overwhelming favourite tag we were given.
The 2025 side is not a patch on the 2017 side. Not yet. But I am hopeful that they will be in 2-3 years.

 

[Mutineer]

O'Brien and Laird in 2025 are performing on a similar level to Hartigan and Atkins from our 2017 side

Rubbish you have to be taking the piss otherwise put down the bong.

 

[Betts are off]

Funfact about the 2 lists in question;

2017 AFC list: 0 top 10 picks
2025 AFC list: 6 top 10 picks

For me based on the 2 sides ceiling's I don't think there's much of an argument. 2025's side still has to reach it, but their potential is much higher for me.

 

[davos44]

The 2017 side was able to beat other top 8 sides.

They beat 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th... Although they were all at home.

The 2025 side has only beaten Brisbane in the top 8 BUT we have a chance to knock off 1st, 4th, 6th and 8th in the run home.

Granted, our losing margins against other top 8 sides currently are 1, 19, 18, 10 and 3 (1 lost at home).

I think this groups ceiling is higher long term, as long as we avoid any extra curricular mental strengthening on the Gold Coast.

 

[kirky]

The 2017 side was able to beat other top 8 sides.

They beat 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th... Although they were all at home.

The 2025 side has only beaten Brisbane in the top 8 BUT we have a chance to knock off 1st, 4th, 6th and 8th in the run home.

Granted, our losing margins against other top 8 sides currently are 1, 19, 18, 10 and 3 (1 lost at home).

I think this groups ceiling is higher long term, as long as we avoid any extra curricular mental strengthening on the Gold Coast.

2017 was at its peak (and was about to tumble - it had been building since 2012) whereas 2025 isn’t even there yet. If the current squad remains intact it will surpass 2017.

 

[Scorpus]

2017 was at its peak (and was about to tumble - it had been building since 2012) whereas 2025 isn’t even there yet. If the current squad remains intact it will surpass 2017.

I don't think the peak we reached in 2017 was even that high.

We had one top 4 finish and made one prelim final. I think history has shown the side we had back then was overrated.

 

[davos44]

2017 was at its peak (and was about to tumble - it had been building since 2012) whereas 2025 isn’t even there yet. If the current squad remains intact it will surpass 2017.

Agreed. Our best talent haven't cracked 100 games yet so in 2-3 years the group will still be largely intact with an extra 40-50 games played (Walker, Laird, Smith all out).

 

[kirky]

I don't think the peak we reached in 2017 was even that high.

We had one top 4 finish and made one prelim final. I think history has shown the side we had back then was overrated.

And our midfield in 2017 was one dimensional as well with Brad and Matt Crouch plus Rory Sloane + Hugh Greenwood.

 

[Golumless]

I don't think the peak we reached in 2017 was even that high.

We had one top 4 finish and made one prelim final. I think history has shown the side we had back then was overrated.

Yup, there is so much self-inflicted damage in that 2017 side from our administration that it's more of a lost generation, then a watermark for a side to reach.

It was nearly a miracle premiership, but the clock struck midnight on a system that had no room for forward injuries (noting we also stalled out mid-year alongside McGoverns injury).

 

[Betts are off]

I don't think the peak we reached in 2017 was even that high.

We had one top 4 finish and made one prelim final. I think history has shown the side we had back then was overrated.

True, but when you analyze the list from 2017 its still quite impressive that they scrapped their way to the GF that year.

In terms of high end draft talent, their BnF top 10 vs draft spot in that season highlights just how limited their ceiling really was.

1: Matt Crouch 315 votes (Pick 23)
2: Rory Sloane 253 (Pick 44)
3: Rory Laird 226 (Rookie Selection)
4: Sam Jacobs 224 (Rookie Selection)
5: Richard Douglas 219 (pick 16)
6: Taylor Walker 211 (Pick 75)
7: Tom Lynch 203 (Pick 13)
8: Brad Crouch 194 (Mini Draft)
= Brodie Smith 194 (pick 14)
10: Eddie Betts 187 (PSD)

I can't imagine you'll see many GF teams with that make-up ever again. 1 mini draft, No top 5's, no top 10's, no F/S's. Can we call Tex an Academy pick? Even so, that is a team punching well above its weight in terms of talent!

 

[Scorpus]

True, but when you analyze the list from 2017 its still quite impressive that they scrapped their way to the GF that year.

In terms of high end draft talent, their BnF top 10 vs draft spot in that season highlights just how limited their ceiling really was.

1: Matt Crouch 315 votes (Pick 23)
2: Rory Sloane 253 (Pick 44)
3: Rory Laird 226 (Rookie Selection)
4: Sam Jacobs 224 (Rookie Selection)
5: Richard Douglas 219 (pick 16)
6: Taylor Walker 211 (Pick 75)
7: Tom Lynch 203 (Pick 13)
8: Brad Crouch 194 (Mini Draft)
= Brodie Smith 194 (pick 14)
10: Eddie Betts 187 (PSD)

I can't imagine you'll see many GF teams with that make-up ever again. 1 mini draft, No top 5's, no top 10's, no F/S's. Can we call Tex an Academy pick? Even so, that is a team punching well above its weight in terms of talent!

That's true and is why we didn't see sustained success. We "made the eight and anything can happen" while not bottoming out and so had to build our list cheaply

Our current list is full of top talent and is primed for a longer flag tilt

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I think history has shown the side we had back then was overrated.

The GF proved that.

 

[pjcrows]

That's true and is why we didn't see sustained success. We "made the eight and anything can happen" while not bottoming out and so had to build our list cheaply

Our current list is full of top talent and is primed for a longer flag tilt

I think this is probably correct. The actual squad profile in terms of talent across the field, and age, should see more sustained performances. It's less likely to be a one-hit wonder. I think it all depends on two things now though - coaching, and a bit more midfield depth.

 

[Brenton Davy]

I think a better comparison would be with the 2016 team. I doubt this team is ready for a GF…. Yet

 

[Jeffcrowe]

No way are O'Brien and Laird are spuds in 2025, that's ridiculous, their performing at a good level still.

ROB is a top 6-8 ruck in this season in comp

Laird having a v good year

Hinge is a great player but could be in better form , not entirely sure why we are playing Smith even though he’s in much better form than last year

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Just based on the drafting (number of high end picks we have in the side) 2025 has to be the better side and its got years of upside ahead too. 2017 was coming to the end of its run.

That’s the main diff , we are 2-4 years away from our peak


But also need to grab your chance when it presents

 

[John Who]

I think this is probably correct. The actual squad profile in terms of talent across the field, and age, should see more sustained performances. It's less likely to be a one-hit wonder. I think it all depends on two things now though - coaching, and a bit more midfield depth.

I get this sentiment at the beginning of the year regarding question marks over coaching. If we do end up top 4, coming from a prior season of bottom 4, that is something that should not be passed off as insignificant. If anything that’s a sign of coaching ability.

Nowhere in reality would you say, “this guy was the bottom 25% of performers compared with his work peers last year, and now is the top 25% of performers this year, but I doubt if he can improve further.” If I was the CEO, I’d monitor eagerly if and how much more improvement there is to go.

 

[PCORF]

2016-2017 were better but 2025 is more talented.

Hopefully top 4 and let's see how they handle the big game pressure in September. There is guaranteed to be a game by less than a kick in the 4th quarter and it comes down to belief and timing. We need to learn from teams like Collingwood in how to close out the game (they force turnovers and then maintain possession in their half forward area and have spare defenders that run back to intercept if a turnover happens forcing another turnover, prelim vs GWS is a good example).

We need full focus every week, win the games we need to win and probably need an upset win or two against either the Bulldogs, Hawthorn or Collingwood later in the season. The showdown is not easy either and even Melbourne this weekend could catch us off guard.

 

[John Who]

Regarding the topic thread, here is a ladder comparison between 2017 and 2025 after 15 matches:



Somewhat surprisingly, our score percentage is better this year than in 2017 after 15 games. Only I would say we won an extra game in comparison in 2017 and were the clearly dominant team around that point.

However, if you compare the 2 years regarding attack and defence:
2017 - 1st rank in attack; 3rd for defence
2025 - 2nd in attack; 2nd for defence

Noting Richmond in 2017 after 15 games were 12th in attack; 2nd in defence.

So it seems we are more balanced overall this year than in 2017. This doesn’t guarantee that we’ll be thrashing sides in Finals, but more than likely at least be competitive in all the games, if we can maintain that defensive pressure that we’ve been churning out this whole year.

 

[John Who]

That’s the main diff , we are 2-4 years away from our peak


But also need to grab your chance when it presents

I like to be optimistic and say we’ll peak in 2 months time. That would be friggin’ nice!