General Bombers Talk 2018 ANZAC Day Guernsey

[Bunk Moreland]

2018 version is out. Again the club is spruiking it with “part of proceeds” going to the RSL.

In past years that’s been either $5 or $10. On a $130 RRP product manufactured cheaply in Asia, somebody is getting a nice collect here.

Again, quite uncomfortable with this stuff. It’s poor form profiting from the memory of slaughtered soldiers.

 

[Stopher]

2018 version is out. Again the club is spruiking it with “part of proceeds” going to the RSL.

In past years that’s been either $5 or $10. On a $130 RRP product manufactured cheaply in Asia, somebody is getting a nice collect here.

Again, quite uncomfortable with this stuff. It’s poor form profiting from the memory of slaughtered soldiers.

Is that what the press conference with Sheedy was about? I agree, not a fan of the clubdoing this with the guernsey, unless it's 100% of the proceeds going to the RSL.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Is that what the press conference with Sheedy was about? I agree, not a fan of the clubdoing this with the guernsey, unless it's 100% of the proceeds going to the RSL.

Yeah both clubs launched their guernsey. Unless 100% of the profits are going to the RSL, it’s ugly stuff imho.

 

[Highly Evolved]

Yeah both clubs launched their guernsey. Unless 100% of the profits are going to the RSL, it’s ugly stuff imho.

Agree wholeheartedly. I really like the ANZAC jumper designs but I would not purchase one for this very reason.

 

[Espe]

Not sure how simple it is. Would be interesting to see how the pie is split of between Essendon and ISC (or even if the AFL get a cut)

All profits should go to the RSL, and ISC should get on board with it too. How clubs can charge $130 for a jersey is beyond me.

 

[eth-dog]

Eh. As long as it's no less than $50 that go to the RSL.

 

[Pweter]

I can't agree enough that all proceeds should go to the RSL. We share the gate in a sellout blockbuster that's the biggest H&A game of the season. We don't need to take anything else out of the game.

 

[pepsi]

What else raises money for the rsl on Anzac day?
Pin sales
Donation tins?
Anything else?

I don't really have an issue if we make some money off the sales of an Anzac day Guernsey.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What else raises money for the rsl on Anzac day?
Pin sales
Donation tins?
Anything else?

I don't really have an issue if we make some money off the sales of an Anzac day Guernsey.

The guernsey uses symbols of remembrance. We’re talking about the remembrance of young soldiers who’ve been slaughtered in foreign lands in service of the country. Commercialisation of it is tacky at best, highly offensive at worst.

 

[yaco55]

Reckon the RSL is happy to get any money from jumper sales - After all this is money which was unavailable to the RSL prior to 1995 - The RSL must be happy with the increased public recognition of this day compared to 25 years ago - The RSL is a long way ahead.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...-australia-to-be-investigated-by-acnc/8397262

Would love to know the breakdown of how much money the RSL and affiliates bring in through beer and pokies and then how much finds its way to supporting programs for veterans.

Money earnt mostly through the elderly.

It might be pessimistic of me but it seems a lot charities/notforprofits wouldn't receive as much donations of people knew where the money went.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

New Era caps now. So *in tacky

 

[mike14]

Would prefer us to find a better organisation than the RSL to be honest.
Legacy would be a good idea, but there are plenty of returned service-person organisations out there that do a better job than the RSL

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Personally I find the neo sanctity of Anzac day more distasteful than selling jumpers.

I mean, "profiting off the memory of slaughtered soldiers" seems a bit OTT to me.

The battle at Gallipoli was pure imperialism. Australia was under no threat. We were merely there to do they bidding of our masters to ensure their interests were sustained and they could continue to make money from being an Empire.

WWII was more of the same, defending one set of imperial powers and their interests from the aggression of another.

Since then pretty much every war fought has been:

a) the result of structural problems that are direct remnants of colonialism; or

b) imposing and sustaining capitalism over and above competing systems like communism

As such, I'd say it's reasonable to suggest that the slaughter of those men and all that have followed has more or less been precisely so that people can profit off whatever they like.

I certainly don't mean to have a go at the OP, and I know some people will think this is too cynical by half (even though it's true).

Some others will get completely offended by me saying something they consider to be outrageous. That's because of the neo sanctity of Anzac day, which is ironic for a few reasons.

One is that Anzac day has become our de facto Australia day - a nationalist, patriotic, military jingoistic, Aussie version of the fourth of July.

That is to say, it's been entirely co-opted from being what it was up to about 15 years ago - a quiet, melancholy occasion to remember the fallen; and my "cynicism" is far more representative of what the day was and should be.

The other is that it forgets what it really glorifies: a * up of the highest order where we landed on completely the wrong beach, trying to invade another country for a dumb reason, failing wildly, and leaving with our tail between our legs and our young men in unmarked graves on the other side of the world

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Reckon the RSL is happy to get any money from jumper sales - After all this is money which was unavailable to the RSL prior to 1995 - The RSL must be happy with the increased public recognition of this day compared to 25 years ago - The RSL is a long way ahead.

Precisely

 

[AcuteWhistle]

Don't the RSL profit (greatly) from pokies? It might be better they make their coin from jumper sale type activities than those cancers in a box.

 

[mike14]

Don't the RSL profit (greatly) from pokies? It might be better they make their coin from jumper sale type activities than those cancers in a box.

Yes and no. RSL clubs make a shitload from pokies (especially in NSW), how much money the RSL club (a separate company that anyone can join/be a board member on) chooses to give to a particular RSL sub-branch (the organisation looking at veteran welfare, which you have to a returned service-person to join) is entirely at the discretion of the Club board.

There were some damning articles in NSW around this time last year about how the Club's are now 'businesses' and looking after/supporting returned-service people is well down on their list of priorities

 

[Liberator]

Personally I find the neo sanctity of Anzac day more distasteful than selling jumpers.

I mean, "profiting off the memory of slaughtered soldiers" seems a bit OTT to me.

The battle at Gallipoli was pure imperialism. Australia was under no threat. We were merely there to do they bidding of our masters to ensure their interests were sustained and they could continue to make money from being an Empire.

WWII was more of the same, defending one set of imperial powers and their interests from the aggression of another.

Since then pretty much every war fought has been:

a) the result of structural problems that are direct remnants of colonialism; or

b) imposing and sustaining capitalism over and above competing systems like communism

As such, I'd say it's reasonable to suggest that the slaughter of those men and all that have followed has more or less been precisely so that people can profit off whatever they like.

I certainly don't mean to have a go at the OP, and I know some people will think this is too cynical by half (even though it's true).

Some others will get completely offended by me saying something they consider to be outrageous. That's because of the neo sanctity of Anzac day, which is ironic for a few reasons.

One is that Anzac day has become our de facto Australia day - a nationalist, patriotic, military jingoistic, Aussie version of the fourth of July.

That is to say, it's been entirely co-opted from being what it was up to about 15 years ago - a quiet, melancholy occasion to remember the fallen; and my "cynicism" is far more representative of what the day was and should be.

The other is that it forgets what it really glorifies: a **** up of the highest order where we landed on completely the wrong beach, trying to invade another country for a dumb reason, failing wildly, and leaving with our tail between our legs and our young men in unmarked graves on the other side of the world

Here, here. What it was 20 years ago is still what it is for some people - but your broad observations I agree with. Takes some balls to express them too. It’s okay to participate in the feelings and rituals which have emerged around ANZAC day, but worth having clear eyes about how these sanctifications and representations work and are repositioned over time. Use the head as well as the heart in other words.
I do slightly disagree with you about the causes of WW2 though - so vaguely defined they can be said to be the cause of every war (imperial interests): or at least, saying that it was “more of the same” is too reductive to the point of being meaningless in my opinion.
But yeah the cap can * right off. Don’t mind the jumper in itself, but the whole money spinning thing is a bit distasteful.

 

[SherbertLemon]

Meh, WW2 I think we had some interests that expanded beyond imperialism, like not being invaded by the Japanese for one.

Additionally, maintaining capitalism over the oppressive and stupid socialist systems doesn't seem like the worst idea.

Governments have killed more people through tyranny than the negative externalities of a liberal democratic political system & market based economic system.... Just some thoughts...

 

[Lore]

The other is that it forgets what it really glorifies: a **** up of the highest order where we landed on completely the wrong beach, trying to invade another country for a dumb reason, failing wildly, and leaving with our tail between our legs and our young men in unmarked graves on the other side of the world

Precisely. Lest we forget.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Personally I find the neo sanctity of Anzac day more distasteful than selling jumpers.

I mean, "profiting off the memory of slaughtered soldiers" seems a bit OTT to me.

The battle at Gallipoli was pure imperialism. Australia was under no threat. We were merely there to do they bidding of our masters to ensure their interests were sustained and they could continue to make money from being an Empire.

WWII was more of the same, defending one set of imperial powers and their interests from the aggression of another.

Since then pretty much every war fought has been:

a) the result of structural problems that are direct remnants of colonialism; or

b) imposing and sustaining capitalism over and above competing systems like communism

As such, I'd say it's reasonable to suggest that the slaughter of those men and all that have followed has more or less been precisely so that people can profit off whatever they like.

I certainly don't mean to have a go at the OP, and I know some people will think this is too cynical by half (even though it's true).

Some others will get completely offended by me saying something they consider to be outrageous. That's because of the neo sanctity of Anzac day, which is ironic for a few reasons.

One is that Anzac day has become our de facto Australia day - a nationalist, patriotic, military jingoistic, Aussie version of the fourth of July.

That is to say, it's been entirely co-opted from being what it was up to about 15 years ago - a quiet, melancholy occasion to remember the fallen; and my "cynicism" is far more representative of what the day was and should be.

The other is that it forgets what it really glorifies: a **** up of the highest order where we landed on completely the wrong beach, trying to invade another country for a dumb reason, failing wildly, and leaving with our tail between our legs and our young men in unmarked graves on the other side of the world

I don’t disagree with any of that. Not sure how it invalidates what I’m saying.

It’s been made into a joke celebration day - with footy at the forefront of that. All on the back of soldiers being slaughtered.

Using that to sell *in New Era caps is *in average. Not sure if you’re saying “well everyone else does it”... I don’t think that’s an excuse.

 

[CBombers17]

I dont rememner an ANZAC day ever being a "celebration" - something we are now encouraged to do - "celebrate ANZAC day". Footy and all the commercialization that comes with it has most likely influenced that.

I think it's turned from a solemn day of contemplation, gratitude for sacrifice and reflection, to a day where these sacrifices are celebrated.

I don't mind that things have evolved like that. Ultimately, that they are free to do so in Australia would have been in part what many of the diggers were fighting for - freedom from dictatorships or foreign rule. Like the chocolate soldiers in P.N.G when they were under the distinct impression the Japanese were on there way to Australia - which they were.

I read a quote on Quora recently where a senior Japanese citizen said he was going to go to Australia once. When asked what didn't he he replied - the Australian Army stopped us. That's a pretty real reason to go and fight in my book.

In response to the thread i think there should be transparency in donations made in these circumstances - what happens with jumper sales from the indigenous round?

 

[Lore]

I dont rememner an ANZAC day ever being a "celebration" - something we are now encouraged to do - "celebrate ANZAC day". Footy and all the commercialization that comes with it has most likely influenced that.

I think it's turned from a solemn day of contemplation, gratitude for sacrifice and reflection, to a day where these sacrifices are celebrated.

I don't mind that things have evolved like that. Ultimately, that they are free to do so in Australia would have been in part what many of the diggers were fighting for - freedom from dictatorships or foreign rule. Like the chocolate soldiers in P.N.G when they were under the distinct impression the Japanese were on there way to Australia - which they were.

I like this. Different way of looking at it but it makes sense. Guess the only ones you can really ask about it are the ones who came back and their families though

I read a quote on Quora recently where a senior Japanese citizen said he was going to go to Australia once. When asked what didn't he he replied - the Australian Army stopped us. That's a pretty real reason to go and fight in my book.

In response to the thread i think there should be transparency in donations made in these circumstances - what happens with jumper sales from the indigenous round?

For some bizarre reason I was reading about Port Jackson the other day... as in Sydney Harbour. They had a net across the mouth of the harbour during the war, three Japanese subs got caught up in it. And then there's Darwin, and if you go north to outback NSW there is a lot of evidence of our 'last line of defence' fortifications and preparations should we have been invaded. It was certainly a real threat, and was taken as such at the time.

 

[CBombers17]

I like this. Different way of looking at it but it makes sense. Guess the only ones you can really ask about it are the ones who came back and their families though


For some bizarre reason I was reading about Port Jackson the other day... as in Sydney Harbour. They had a net across the mouth of the harbour during the war, three Japanese subs got caught up in it. And then there's Darwin, and if you go north to outback NSW there is a lot of evidence of our 'last line of defence' fortifications and preparations should we have been invaded. It was certainly a real threat, and was taken as such at the time.

There was also Japanese sub activity around Victoria (others will know far more than me on this subject for sure).

With regards to the opinions of returned soldiers and family's I agree. One would imagine those opinions would vary greatly as is mostly the case.

As an aside but with some releavance i remember being with my Great-Grandfather as a kid (he fought in the battle of the Somme with his brothers) and I played army soliders with him (the little plastic figurines - i think they were ww2 ones, American & Italian soldiers). I wondered years later what if anything he felt playing with them having faced that horror in real life (he was wounded very badly and was missing in the mud and horror for 3 or 4 days, shot in the chest and had a big hole blown out his back - plus at least one brother killed and others wounded etc)?

He was long dead when i thought about this so in was never able to ask but i think he was ok with it. Maybe that was the times and the type of men they were (South Coast NSW farmers) but to me now i don't think they'd mind what ANZAC day has become - just based on a feeling from those little exchanges years ago.