Analysis 2018 Best 22

[jesterwester]

Trying to work out how we bring Ryan back? If fully fit and firing, who do we drop? Assuming that Brander comes in and slots into that CHF role.

This week I think it will be for Darling.

On the smaller ground a forward line of Kennedy, Waterman & the resting ruck should be tall enough, with Ryan another marking option.

 

[Balls In]

Trying to work out how we bring Ryan back? If fully fit and firing, who do we drop? Assuming that Brander comes in and slots into that CHF role.

Overthinking it. Ryan is middle/upper best 22 and is easily our best forward pocket. He plays. The other small forwards are in an absolute shitfight to hold their spots and so be it. Its a beautiful thing.

 

[Candiru]

In that HFF role, yeah I do, actually. He’s a more natural forward, imo.

Sheed has a spot in my best 22 right now as well. But it’s in the midfield.

If you consider Sheed best 22 then why is he the player you'd compare Venables against? If it comes down to picking the best available side, is Venables dislodging Sheed?

 

[jesterwester]

If you consider Sheed best 22 then why is he the player you'd compare Venables against? If it comes down to picking the best available side, is Venables dislodging Sheed?

I said I’d much prefer to see Venables on a HFF flank than Sheed. Or Hutchings for that matter. We’ve played both in the role that Venables has played in this year. It seems to have been a spot we have pushed guys when they are lower in the pecking order.

I don’t think that’s the case now, Sheed was unlucky to have seemingly lost his spot last week to Shuey but I think Hutchings in the end is who will drop again. If it came down to it & Sheed was pushed down in the pecking order, I’d be going DV to play in that role. I think he offers more in that role right now in the short term; he’s a more natural forward at this point & his ball use is very good. Plus I think the more exposure to those midfield minutes we can give him in that role will be more beneficial in the long run. I think he’s quality, as I mentioned earlier I can’t wait to see him at 50-75 games.

 

[Candiru]

I said I’d much prefer to see Venables on a HFF flank than Sheed. Or Hutchings for that matter. We’ve played both in the role that Venables has played in this year. It seems to have been a spot we have pushed guys when they are lower in the pecking order.

I don’t think that’s the case now, Sheed was unlucky to have seemingly lost his spot last week to Shuey but I think Hutchings in the end is who will drop again. If it came down to it & Sheed was pushed down in the pecking order, I’d be going DV to play in that role. I think he offers more in that role right now in the short term; he’s a more natural forward at this point & his ball use is very good. Plus I think the more exposure to those midfield minutes we can give him in that role will be more beneficial in the long run. I think he’s quality, as I mentioned earlier I can’t wait to see him at 50-75 games.

Sheed is primarily an engine room midfielder but he's behind Yeo, Shuey and Redden based on 2018. Does that mean he has to be better than Venables on a HFF to justify his spot? I'm still not clear on who of the two players you consider best 22. Or is it both?

 

[Marlin01]

Right now, Jetta is the player I have the least faith in.

 

[Doashuey]

I hear ya. Jets gets one more shot at it next week. He either fires up or back to the WAFL til he bangs the door down.

 

[Shmiddy15]

Sheed is primarily an engine room midfielder but he's behind Yeo, Shuey and Redden based on 2018. Does that mean he has to be better than Venables on a HFF to justify his spot? I'm still not clear on who of the two players you consider best 22. Or is it both?

I think he’s saying that he currently rates sheed as the better player, but if there’s only room for one of them in the team, and the position that player will be in is the hff, he’d rather have DV.

 

[Candiru]

I think he’s saying that he currently rates sheed as the better player, but if there’s only room for one of them in the team, and the position that player will be in is the hff, he’d rather have DV.

If Sheed is the better player, then surely that's the bottom line. We have plenty of forwards who can play on a HFF. I struggle to imagine a version of our best 22 where it comes down to a choice between Venables and Sheed and you pick Venables because he can play on a HFF.

 

[numbat06]

I think Venables is the sort of player who is probably best 22-25 at the moment but you play in the team to get some games into him as he's quality and it'll pay off long term

 

[Shmiddy15]

If Sheed is the better player, then surely that's the bottom line. We have plenty of forwards who can play on a HFF. I struggle to imagine a version of our best 22 where it comes down to a choice between Venables and Sheed and you pick Venables because he can play on a HFF.

I dunno i think it makes sense. Say you have 8 really good defenders, but only want to play 7 defenders max. Do you squeeze out a forward to fit the extra defender in and put them on the hff. They might be a better overall player, but not as well suited to that role.

Whether that’s actually the case though between DV and Sheed is hard to say, but I think there’s definitely merit in picking the best player for the specific position, not just the better overall player.

 

[Candiru]

I dunno i think it makes sense. Say you have 8 really good defenders, but only want to play 7 defenders max. Do you squeeze out a forward to fit the extra defender in and put them on the hff. They might be a better overall player, but not as well suited to that role.

No need for a hypothetical. If Sheed's the better player, then surely you pick him.

We've got plenty of guys who can play on a HFF. Rioli, Cripps, LeCras, Ryan, Waterman and even Ah Chee. Venables is competing with those guys for a spot on a HFF.

Whether that’s actually the case though between DV and Sheed is hard to say, but I think there’s definitely merit in picking the best player for the specific position, not just the better overall player.

But we have a ton of forwards. Why weaken the midfield to squeeze in another?

This is something like our best 22:

B: Duggan Barrass Sheppard
HB: Hurn McGovern Cole
C: Gaff Redden Masten
HF: Rioli Darling Waterman
F: Ryan Kennedy LeCras
R: Naitanui Yeo Shuey
Int: Lycett Sheed Cripps ???

You reckon we need another HFF in that side? If we really love Venables, then by all means slot him into that last spot ahead of Jetta, Hutchings, Nelson or Ah Chee. And that may be the right move if he comes back and fires. But I don't see the sense in ditching Sheed to make room for him, just so we can play yet another HFF. If you want Venables over Sheed, then surely you have to make the case for him as a midfielder. There are more than enough options to play HF.

 

[WCE_phil]

I think Venables is the sort of player who is probably best 22-25 at the moment but you play in the team to get some games into him as he's quality and it'll pay off long term

I'm sorry but this is absolute horse s**t.

If your team is challenging you play the best side you can, not pump games into someone as they may someday be best 22.

 

[numbat06]

I'm sorry but this is absolute horse s**t.

If your team is challenging you play the best side you can, not pump games into someone as they may someday be best 22.

I think he nearly is best 22 and the coaching staff rate him highly. Think he'll come in for the Sheed/Nelson/Hutchings sort of players by the end of the year

 

[Candiru]

I think he nearly is best 22 and the coaching staff rate him highly. Think he'll come in for the Sheed/Nelson/Hutchings sort of players by the end of the year

You'd have to make the case for him ahead of Sheed as an engine-room midfielder.

I realise it's become trendy to bag Sheed in the past month, but do you reckon Venables is going to match Sheed's output any time this year? Venables has played a handful of games and then missed half the season with injury. Do you reckon he's going to come back in, rack up 20-odd touches a game, half of them contested? If he does, happy days. He'll be unquestionably best 22.

 

[WCE Wizard]

This week I think it will be for Darling.

On the smaller ground a forward line of Kennedy, Waterman & the resting ruck should be tall enough, with Ryan another marking option.

Yep Ryan has a good of pair of hands, a big leap, good footy smarts and good around goal

 

[Ghossein]

on current form:

FB:Hurn Barrass Sheppard
HB:Cole McGovern Duggan
C: Masten Redden Gaff
HF: Cripps Darling Rioli
FF: LeCras Kennedy Ryan
FOL: Naitanui Shuey Yeo
INT: Lycett AhChee Nelson Venables

EMG: Sheed, Jetta, Waterman, Petch

Waterman extremely unlucky but I think he's the necessary out for Ryan. Sheed and Jetta need to find form in the WAFL. Nelson included for backline rotations.

 

[Candiru]

on current form:

FB:Hurn Barrass Sheppard
HB:Cole McGovern Duggan
C: Masten Redden Gaff
HF: Cripps Darling Rioli
FF: LeCras Kennedy Ryan
FOL: Naitanui Shuey Yeo
INT: Lycett AhChee Nelson Venables

EMG: Sheed, Jetta, Waterman, Petch

Waterman extremely unlucky but I think he's the necessary out for Ryan. Sheed and Jetta need to find form in the WAFL. Nelson included for backline rotations.

Ah Chee, Nelson, Venables > Waterman, Sheed on current form?

Sheed averages more contested possessions and clearances per game than Redden. Waterman is our #2 for goal assists (#13 in the comp).

 

[Ghossein]

Ah Chee, Nelson, Venables > Waterman, Sheed on current form?

Sheed averages more contested possessions and clearances per game than Redden. Waterman is our #2 for goal assists (#13 in the comp).

sheed also leads the comp for most unpressured kicks that go out of bounds for absolutely no reason

i agree with waterman though, but i can’t see who you’d remove?

 

[WCE Wizard]

sheed also leads the comp for most unpressured kicks that go out of bounds for absolutely no reason

i agree with waterman though, but i can’t see who you’d remove?

Nelson for starters please he is WAFL material and can stay there

 

[Candiru]

sheed also leads the comp for most unpressured kicks that go out of bounds for absolutely no reason

i agree with waterman though, but i can’t see who you’d remove?

Well, what has Nelson done? Ah Chee's spot is by no means secure. And if it's on current form, then Venables has none of that.

Our improvement this year has been built on a more even spread of contested possession. Sheed is a big part of that (#2 for us behind Yeo). I wouldn't be taking a ball-winning mid out of there to accommodate Nelson or even Ah Chee. If Venables comes back and fires, then he could carve out a spot pretty quickly. But that remains to be seen, surely.

 

[Ghossein]

Well, what has Nelson done? Ah Chee's spot is by no means secure. And if it's on current form, then Venables has none of that.

Our improvement this year has been built on a more even spread of contested possession. Sheed is a big part of that (#2 for us behind Yeo). I wouldn't be taking a ball-winning mid out of there to accommodate Nelson or even Ah Chee. If Venables comes back and fires, then he could carve out a spot pretty quickly. But that remains to be seen, surely.

Nelson has been a relatively good 7th defender, you can’t have a bench with no defence rotation. Simmo seems to agree that sheed’s form has been lacking in recent weeks despite his numbers for the year.

Venables was working into some amazing form before his injury (let’s not forget he kicked 3). Ah Chee has only been in the side for a few weeks and with any traded player, needs to be backed in for a few weeks. If both Venables and Ah Chee can’t show good form over the next 2-3 hypothetical rounds then they’d probably be out for Sheed and Hutchings.

It’s a contentious issue but you surely have to agree Sheed’s form has been dipping recently

 

[Candiru]

Nelson has been a relatively good 7th defender, you can’t have a bench with no defence rotation. Simmo seems to agree that sheed’s form has been lacking in recent weeks despite his numbers for the year.

Nelson has been nothing special at all. Bottom line for me is that our success this season has been built on spreading the load of winning contested possession. You don't sustain that by dropping the guy who is #2 for contested ball.

Venables was working into some amazing form before his injury (let’s not forget he kicked 3). Ah Chee has only been in the side for a few weeks and with any traded player, needs to be backed in for a few weeks. If both Venables and Ah Chee can’t show good form over the next 2-3 hypothetical rounds then they’d probably be out for Sheed and Hutchings.

It’s a contentious issue but you surely have to agree Sheed’s form has been dipping recently

Let's not exaggerate. Venables was going well for a rookie but it wasn't "amazing form". If you want Venables over Sheed, you have to make the case for Venables as an engine-room midfielder and he is not yet high-volume enough for that. Besides, if you're basing it on current form, surely you have to wait and see how Venables goes once he's available.

As for Ah Chee, I'm happy to give him his opportunities but that doesn't mean he's suddenly best 22 ahead of Sheed and/or Waterman.

Sheed had two ordinary weeks after returning from injury. But we need a midfield that can win an arm wrestle and that means Sheed is still worth his spot. We can't just load up with half a dozen fancy half-forwards. People can bag Sheed for shitty disposals when warranted. That's fair enough. But stripping back our midfield rotations by dropping him is not the way forward. That's not how we win an arm wrestle.

You reckon Sheed and Hutchings are both on the chopping block? So who's in the midfield? Shuey, Yeo, Gaff, Redden, then who? Masten? That's not deep enough.

Haven't we seen enough in recent years of trying to play flashy, fast footy? And then the other team gets on top in contested possession and we go to water? We've finally built a midfield that can hold its own around the contest and people just want to go back to the sexy stuff? For mine, maintaining a midfield rotation that can break even or win the contested possession is probably our #1 priority right now in terms of game style and selection. Along with making sure that we maintain the effective kicking game that has helped our ball movement so dramatically, particularly in defence and in transition on the way out.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Nelson for starters please he is WAFL material and can stay there

The Nelson hate continues.

By and large, when he's played this year, he's played his role well. Why are people so negative about him?

 

[ArdentEagle]

The Nelson hate continues.

By and large, when he's played this year, he's played his role well. Why are people so negative about him?

At best he's a depth player in a good system. Personally I think we can do better.