Team Mgmt. 2018 Best 22

[TheFrenchCut]

Gleeson Hurley Francis
Saad Hartley Mckenna
Smith Zaharakis McGrath
Stewart Daniher Stringer
Walla Hooker Fantasia
Bellchambers Heppell Zerrett
Langford Laverde BJ Parish

 

[yaco55]

Just on this, Begley has had very little exposure with this role in the VFL, I think that will be his long term position but I don't think he is in the frame for that role at AFL level yet. If anything id expect Laverde or Begley to play the role that Parish did this year playing mostly forward with stints in the middle and on the wing and if that's the role either is expected id have Laverde ahead purely on his exposed form and age. Id prefer to give Laverde first dibs because of his injuries to see how he goes with a fair run at it and if he doesn't do well he can easily be replaced with Begley. No harm in playing Begley as a pure mid at VFL level for the first 8 weeks I don't think we lose out at all in that situation we give Begley handy exposure to the midfield role which should be a competitive spot with Clarke and Mutch set to play more time in the middle at that level. Hopefully all 3 put heaps of pressure on guys like Langford and Laverde to perform and we will truly find out more about those 2 if they stay injury free and get a few early senior games.

I'll go a step further and want Begley and Laverde to play the same block of VFL games at the beginning of 2018 - The only way this will change is if either light it up in the pre-season - Will add I am uncomfortable with Laverde playing the same role he did in the latter part of 2017 AFL season - He was patently unsuited to that role.

 

[BrunoV]

I'll go a step further and want Begley and Laverde to play the same block of VFL games at the beginning of 2018 - The only way this will change is if either light it up in the pre-season - Will add I am uncomfortable with Laverde playing the same role he did in the latter part of 2017 AFL season - He was patently unsuited to that role.

I treat Laverde's 2017 AFL season as a write off.

I accept that trying to psychoanalyze a player's mental state from my living room based on on-field performance is apt to delude but it seemed clear that he was extremely tense/frustrated on-field and seemed to be chasing a spot he knew he'd lost as a result of injury.

That doesn't translate well to playing a decoy type role forward when you need to take your limited opportunities.


More generally, I don't really understand how it is so clear that Begley is that far in front. He kicked goals in the AFL and Laverde didn't. Watched a lot of Begley in the twos and he had a good year but he didn't play a game near the impact of Laverde's second and third games back from injury.

 

[blitzer]

I treat Laverde's 2017 AFL season as a write off.

I accept that trying to psychoanalyze a player's mental state from my living room based on on-field performance is apt to delude but it seemed clear that he was extremely tense/frustrated on-field and seemed to be chasing a spot he knew he'd lost as a result of injury.

That doesn't translate well to playing a decoy type role forward when you need to take your limited opportunities.


More generally, I don't really understand how it is so clear that Begley is that far in front. He kicked goals in the AFL and Laverde didn't. Watched a lot of Begley in the twos and he had a good year but he didn't play a game near the impact of Laverde's second and third games back from injury.

Surely though you'd judge the players on how they went in the seniors rather than the VFL. You'd expect with his physique and a few preseasons under his belt that Laverde would have an easy time of it at VFL level. Laverde's kicking was exposed big time at AFL level - now whether that was affected by fitness I don't know but Begley on the other hand made the most of his opportunities.

I know Laverde played some brilliant games in the VFL - I believe he kicked ~6 goals in one of the games but he's never going to get that sort of supply at AFL level because we have other focal targets. We are much better off having someone who is efficient than someone who could on a good day kick half the goals he goes for.

Begley's first quarter against Gold Coast - was probably better than anything Laverde did at AFL level in the entire season. Which is why he'd be ahead in my books. Hell even in the final against Sydney he managed 2 goals. He's just a super efficient player who doesn't waste his touches. You need those types at AFL level. That said there's no reason why both can't make the best 22 if they do enough in the preseason.

 

[Mad Bomber Sean]

Surely though you'd judge the players on how they went in the seniors rather than the VFL. You'd expect with his physique and a few preseasons under his belt that Laverde would have an easy time of it at VFL level. Laverde's kicking was exposed big time at AFL level - now whether that was affected by fitness I don't know but Begley on the other hand made the most of his opportunities.

I know Laverde played some brilliant games in the VFL - I believe he kicked ~6 goals in one of the games but he's never going to get that sort of supply at AFL level because we have other focal targets. We are much better off having someone who is efficient than someone who could on a good day kick half the goals he goes for.

Begley's first quarter against Gold Coast - was probably better than anything Laverde did at AFL level in the entire season. Which is why he'd be ahead in my books. Hell even in the final against Sydney he managed 2 goals. He's just a super efficient player who doesn't waste his touches. You need those types at AFL level. That said there's no reason why both can't make the best 22 if they do enough in the preseason.

I don't get all the Laverde love really - Begley is clearly ahead of him. Begley deserves his spot in the 22 based on performance & promise of the games he played. Not just the promise of being a high draft pick.

My best 22 at the moment:


FB: Gleeson - Hartley -Francis
HB: McKenna - Hurley - Saad
MI: Merrett - Parish -McGrath
RU: Bellchambers - Heppell - Zaharakis
HF: Stringer - Daniher - Smith
FF: Walla - Hooker - Fantasia
Int: Langford - Stewart - Goddard - Begley

Emergences:
Baguley / Colyer / Myers / Ambrose


Can you have that many emergencies ?

 

[BrunoV]

Surely though you'd judge the players on how they went in the seniors rather than the VFL. You'd expect with his physique and a few preseasons under his belt that Laverde would have an easy time of it at VFL level. Laverde's kicking was exposed big time at AFL level - now whether that was affected by fitness I don't know but Begley on the other hand made the most of his opportunities.

I know Laverde played some brilliant games in the VFL - I believe he kicked ~6 goals in one of the games but he's never going to get that sort of supply at AFL level because we have other focal targets. We are much better off having someone who is efficient than someone who could on a good day kick half the goals he goes for.

Begley's first quarter against Gold Coast - was probably better than anything Laverde did at AFL level in the entire season. Which is why he'd be ahead in my books. Hell even in the final against Sydney he managed 2 goals. He's just a super efficient player who doesn't waste his touches. You need those types at AFL level. That said there's no reason why both can't make the best 22 if they do enough in the preseason.

In this case, no and that's my point. I don't see why, knowing everything we know (i.e. the context), we'd look at a small sample of games and use that to make any decision.

What is the context? Part of it is the knowledge that not having a pre-season dramatically impacts on a players capacity to perform. This would clearly also be the case in circumstances where a player has had a, what was it, 15 week injury. Part of it is the analysis of Laverde not being in a head space that would enable him to perform to a standard required or even the standard he has performed to in the past (when not returning from injury and at point comparable to Begley). Part of the context is the VFL performance which I don't think can be dismissed. Part of it is that, if you can remember Laverde's first year, clinical finishing from distance was the norm and he played a couple of extremely encouraging games (as good if not better than Begley in a much weaker team).

Begley has converted a couple of shots on goal and now his attack on the footy is amazing, etc, etc. The irony is that fans would have said the same thing about Laverde after his first year. His numbers stacked up pretty well: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-essendon-bombers--jayden-laverde?year=2015

Having watched Begley at the lower level, a lot, I wouldn't say that it was obvious that he was more prepared than Mutch, Langford or Clarke for AFL (who had better seasons but did not fill the need Begley did when he was selected). He has the body but was not stringing together amazingly consistent performances.

For what it's worth I think that Begley looks to be an amazing prospect (as good as any other player drafted in 2016) but it's not because of his AFL performances which won't really have any impact on whether he is a best 22 player for round 1 2018.

 

[eDPS]

In this case, no and that's my point. I don't see why, knowing everything we know (i.e. the context), we'd look at a small sample of games and use that to make any decision.

What is the context? Part of it is the knowledge that not having a pre-season dramatically impacts on a players capacity to perform. This would clearly also be the case in circumstances where a player has had a, what was it, 15 week injury. Part of it is the analysis of Laverde not being in a head space that would enable him to perform to a standard required or even the standard he has performed to in the past (when not returning from injury and at point comparable to Begley). Part of the context is the VFL performance which I don't think can be dismissed. Part of it is that, if you can remember Laverde's first year, clinical finishing from distance was the norm and he played a couple of extremely encouraging games (as good if not better than Begley in a much weaker team).

Begley has converted a couple of shots on goal and now his attack on the footy is amazing, etc, etc. The irony is that fans would have said the same thing about Laverde after his first year. His numbers stacked up pretty well: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-essendon-bombers--jayden-laverde?year=2015

Having watched Begley at the lower level, a lot, I wouldn't say that it was obvious that he was more prepared than Mutch, Langford or Clarke for AFL (who had better seasons but did not fill the need Begley did when he was selected). He has the body but was not stringing together amazingly consistent performances.

For what it's worth I think that Begley looks to be an amazing prospect (as good as any other player drafted in 2016) but it's not because of his AFL performances which won't really have any impact on whether he is a best 22 player for round 1 2018.

Spot on

 

[fairbump_playon]

Do we need a new thread for best 22 at 2018 finals time? It would be interesting to hear people's thoughts about who will emerge during the year.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Also - I really hope Tom Bellchambers can get into career best condition and stay that way through 2018. That could really take us next level.

And who is the best option for covering ruck duties when Bellchambers rests? Would be lovely if Stewart could step up.. would prefer Daniher stays forward.

 

[Lore]

Do we need a new thread for best 22 at 2018 finals time? It would be interesting to hear people's thoughts about who will emerge during the year.

This one will do. I imagine the exchange will be roughly similar to this thread, before descending yet again into a discussion about whether Begley deserves to be ahead of Laverde. Not much point to the duplication.

For mine I’d like to see more of Ridley and Mutch by the end of 2018.

And Francis. Always Francis.

 

[bombreys]

Laverde worked extremely hard to even get back when he did after his injury and Langford was playing as a midfielder which is why Begley as a forward got first dibs. To say Langford and Laverde didn't work hard seems rather insulting.

Not necessarily saying that they didn't work hard, it just seemed like Begley was made to do more to earn a game.

And he was in the best form of the three at the end of the year imo.

 

[citizen-erased]

Had this in the Begley thread:

Gleeson - 2 of Hartley/Ambrose/Bags/Francis
Saad - Hurley - McKenna
Parish - Heppell - Merrett
Stringer - Daniher - Tippa
Fantasia - Hooker - Stewart
TBC - Zaka - Smith
McGrath - Goddard - ?? - ??

2 spots for Myers, Colyer, Laverde, Langford, Begley

For mine, the nature of our game plan means we want intercept and rebound from our defence.
In that respect, i see Goddard used less in the defensive role as he is better with time to pick his kicks, and forward pressure saw that drop off towards the end of the year. but the likes of Merrett, Parish, Smith and Zaka soak this up. As would McGrath.
Gleeson, Hurley, McKenna and Saad pick themselves. The last 2 defensive posts may come down to opposition balance. Bags may miss out against taller forward lines like Adelaide, Port, StK and GWS, but come into play against smaller ones like Richmond, Collingwood and Melbourne.

The forward line picks itself. Don't mess with what is working.
Its where i tend to favour Langford and Begley as our last two mids on that bench, as they are both suited as mid sized forwards, but i think they present more value in the middle than the other options.

Zaka, Smith, Merrett, Parish, Heppell, McGrath bring tackle pressure. As would Tippa coming in from HFF.
Stringer & Smith will be excellent for break away pace and goal kicking from the midfield. Im liking what these two bring in terms of recruitment.

And that's not considering any of the guys we haven't seen @ AFL level yet.

We seem to have that nice balance of the Hawks bookends balance, with the pace of the Tigers/Dogs premiership teams of late.

It's going to come down to intensity at the ball and ball carrier. We know we can transition and we know we can score.
Key will be can we stop the ease of clearances that put unstoppable pressure on our backline.

 

[getgaff]

Pardon the intrusion folks. Here are my thoughts from the outside on the Bombers best 22

FB: Adam Saad ~ Michael Hartley ~ Patrick Ambrose
HB: Andrew McGrath ~ Michael Hurley ~ Conor McKenna
C: Darcy Parish ~ Dyson Heppell ~ David Zaharakis
HF: Devon Smith ~ Joe Daniher ~ Jake Stringer
FF: Orazio Fantasia ~ Cale Hooker ~ AMT
1R: Tom Bellchambers ~ Brendon Goddard ~ Zach Merrett
IC: Martin Gleeson ~ James Stewart ~ Jayden Laverde ~ Matt Guelfi/ David Myers/ Kyle Langford

• Gone with Guelfi in that inside mid role initially but a full pre-season can change things. Plays the right style of game for inside midfield, needs to work to his limitations but and not overdo the combative footy. Think Woosha will love his attack at the contest.

• Baguley could yet force his way into the 22 but I think the acquisition of Saad and natural progression of McGrath, McKenna and Gleeson means he shouldn't be guaranteed a best 22 spot anymore.

• If a taller, stronger and more experienced midfield body (fit the modern game) is required than Myers is there and Langford has an extra couple of seasons up his sleeve. For a skinnier third tall fwd type when drafted he looks to have filled into his height nicely, looks good for the future.

 

[Yoda_]

Gone with Guelfi in that inside mid role initially but a full pre-season can change things. Plays the right style of game for inside midfield, needs to work to his limitations but and not overdo the combative footy. Think Woosha will love his attack at the contest.

Who does our newest mature ager play like in the AFL already? Would love to know more about him.

 

[Bombers36]

Loving the look of our team at the moment. Right now my best 22 from seniors and reserves would be;-

Seniors

Francis Ambrose Gleeson
Saad Hurley McKenna
Parish Heppell McGrath
Stringer Daniher Fantasia
Stewart Hooker Tippa

Bellcho Zakka Z.Merrett

Bench from:
Smith Goddard Begley Langford


Reserves

Baguley Hartley Dea
Long Ridley McNeice
Colyer Myers Redman
Laverde McKernan Green
Brown Draper Houlahan

Luey Mutch Guelfi

Bench from:
Clarke Thatcher Lavender Mynott
JMerrett Stratchan Hind


The guys in bold in the reserves will likely spend some time in the seniors in a similar position to where they are named in the reserves.
For example you could easily swap Ambrose and Francis from the senior side with Hartley/Baguley in the reserves depending on match-ups, injuries, form etc

Laverde is an interesting one - and right now i have Begley and langford ahead of him. That said - I'd love to see Laverde become that dynamic half forward who can play mid-filed (like Stringer) - but to me he has a fair way to go. In his defence he as had an injury interrupted past couple of seasons though - so it wouldn't surprise if he has a real breakout year in 2018.

Green and Colyer have both shown they keen have an impact at senior level but may find it tough to get in/stay in the seniors given the talent we now have. I hope they can both have an impact though.

Brown is a very under-rated player IMO and is capable of playing that 3rd tall role in attack or defence.

Kobe Mutch is all class and whilst he'll likely start in the reserves I can see him getting a run of games in the seniors in the 2nd half of 2018.


I was talking to my richmond supporting mate last night and he reckons we are even a chance for the flag in 2018! It may be a bit ambitious but with the talent we have if we can get on a finals run like the Bulldogs and tigers have over the previous couple of years who knows what can happen...!!

 

[eDPS]

Yeah nah Green won't be best 22 next year

 

[citizen-erased]

Yeah nah Green won't be best 22 next year

Why is Gleeson an "Other"?

 

[Milanista28]

Why is Gleeson an "Other"?

Still our most underrated player/kid.

 

[Milanista28]

Hurley will average 30d and 8m next season, Get him in DT/SC and don't look back.

 

[hurlygurdy]

There's four points that combine to make me bullish about our midfield next year

1. We struggled last season with Watson being an inconsistent performer which created uncertainty around the stoppages. In a way we didn't know what was going to happen and who to turn to. A well oiled machine we were not. Arguably if we had played a slightly inferior but more consistent midfielder we would have performed better.

2. Heppell is an elite inside mid who physically holds his own. He had a good season this year but he will be better next year. He is stronger now than he was back in 2015 when we were getting bullied without Hocking and Myers.

3. We can actually put together well balanced midfield combinations with our first choice mids. I don't see a lack of brute power in combinations that begin with Heppell and Smith or with Zach and Stringer/BJ. And it's what names that come after those that could become the envy of the league. Parish and McGrath will be greatly improved and they will get a chop out from Walla and Fantasia. It means we can continually throw extreme speed into the midfield mix, yet still have sufficient strength.

4. We now have a high number of midfielders who can and will hunt their own ball. Heppell, Zach, BJ, Smith, Parish, McGrath, Walla and even Zaka (more than before) have all got this going on. It means the issue is about gelling and cohesion rather than not having the cattle.

You will notice i haven't even mentioned Myers, Langford and the rest of the hopefuls which is icing on the cake.

 

[Mad Bomber Sean]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/be...m/news-story/3501a4c029f78603b79a67256bb12f73


Riley Beveridge from Fox Sports gets a C- for this effort as in Can’t be bothered to look past the obvious.


Green & Colyer in best 22 ? Not with better options.

Laverde as a an Emergency ahead of Bagley not based on any recent measure.

No Ambrose Gleeson or Langford. Ok I can’t take him seriously now.

Hooker to play at CHB - ok perhaps not a bad idea for some games. But not as a best 22 selection.

We & Wosha prefer him as CHF as we kick more goals collectively & have good coverage in this area.

Stringer should play mid 1st & resting fwd - so Hooker’s position shouldn’t change by this at least.

If we are struggling with a Gorrila in defence ans Hurley / Hartley or Ambrose can’t handle them, perhaps we consider this switch but his best position is as CHF.

Overall an average effort for a professional journo...

 

[Towno78]

Gleeson - 2 of Hartley/Ambrose/Bags/Francis
Saad - Hurley - McKenna
Parish - Heppell - Merrett
Stringer - Daniher - Tippa
Fantasia - Hooker - Stewart
TBC - Zaka - Smith
McGrath - Goddard - ?? - ??

2 spots for Myers, Colyer, Laverde, Langford, Begley

End discussion, here it is.

 

[yaco55]

I will pose a question - I often read how forward lines will be smaller and more mobile - Some say this means we can't have Hooker as a forward - But how is it possible to have Hooker as a defender ?

 

[calyam]

I will pose a question - I often read how forward lines will be smaller and more mobile - Some say this means we can't have Hooker as a forward - But how is it possible to have Hooker as a defender ?

I don't subscribe to the theory that Hooker needs to go back but the answer to this is obvious. While mobility may be at a premium, there is no shortage of tall forwards in the league who are not hugely mobile. Hooker would, most likely, be the best match-up for these types, allowing Hurley and Ambrose to play smaller. So it would be very easy to play Hooker as a defender but it won't happen because he currently offers more value as a forward.

 

[yaco55]

I don't subscribe to the theory that Hooker needs to go back but the answer to this is obvious. While mobility may be at a premium, there is no shortage of tall forwards in the league who are not hugely mobile. Hooker would, most likely, be the best match-up for these types, allowing Hurley and Ambrose to play smaller. So it would be very easy to play Hooker as a defender but it won't happen because he currently offers more value as a forward.

It's the illogical argument in which i take issue - Clubs will follow the Richmond model which means a smaller forward line - Which some think we must remodel our forward line by taking out one tall - But then moving this tall into defence against smaller forward lines.