2018 Club Membership (2018 AFL Audit numbers now in OP]

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Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
No it isn’t.
Personally I think only full season ticket memberships should count towards membership figures. Not a fan of these 3 game memberships etc being included

Agree that member #s are very different to dollars, & taking one in isolation doesnt do much for any club.

The mighty dollar is the one that counts, 100 cents in every dollar paid, membership numbers are simply feelgood numbers.

Check out the Dogs in 2017 membership : numbers up 19%, dollars up 32% **
http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/WesternBulldogs/Articles/Matches 2017/WB_2017FinancialReport.pdf

Membership and ticketing
The Western Bulldogs achieved another all-time membership record in 2017 with 47,709 members (a 19% increase from 2016). This eclipsed the previous record of 40,081 members set in 2016 and saw the Club again exceed similar sized Victorian clubs such as St Kilda (42,070), Melbourne (42,233) and North Melbourne (40,441).
The Club achieved significant membership growth across all categories in the 2017 season, including a 24% increase in reserved seat memberships and it reached capacity across all guaranteed Grand Final access products (EJ Whitten Social Club and Charles Sutton Premiership Circle). This helped drive overall membership revenue (up by 32% to $8.47 million).
New membership products launched in 2017 included our suite of AFLW memberships (1266 sales), a new junior product targeted at toddlers (Puppy Pack - 815 sales), and our suite of new Ballarat memberships for our inaugural match in Ballarat (775 sales). Investment across various campaigns aimed at new AFLW members assisted the Club in achieving the record for AFLW members across Victorian based clubs.
Following our premiership success in 2016, the Most Valuable Bulldog campaign was crucial in driving member acquisition in the lead up to the 2017 season. All three campaign targets were achieved, including joining up 1000 unrenewed and lapsed members, 500 new members and adding more than 2000 new contacts to our database.

** What will the Tiges do following its flag, reputedly the home of 3 game membership, the dollars in 2018 should skyrocket.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Excellent point. Good post.
Similarly for interstate members who can't readily get to games but want to feel part of a club. For some it's purely a donation. It's a difficult one. Someone who purchases and uses a full season membership compared to an interstate member who doesn't get to any. $wise an interstate member is pure dollars in the bank for a club without the need to give some back to the afl for attending matches.
I think all paying members are valued, or should be.

:thumbsu:
at the new Perth Stadium, its reputed there are 10k seats allocated to General Admission, I'd like to see some of these seats allocated to the visiting club, targeting local members of the visiting club as well as travellers - get one of the WA ex players to head it up, say Jimmy Clement for the Pies, Chance Bateman for the Hawks ... make a day of it.
 
:thumbsu:
at the new Perth Stadium, its reputed there are 10k seats allocated to General Admission, I'd like to see some of these seats allocated to the visiting club, targeting local members of the visiting club as well as travellers - get one of the WA ex players to head it up, say Jimmy Clement for the Pies, Chance Bateman for the Hawks ... make a day of it.
This was the split of those 10,000 according to The West

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/revealed-winners-and-losers-in-stadium-deal-ng-b88500757z
A leaked draft contract for the new Perth Stadium reveals that only 7000 general admission tickets will be available for AFL games — 3000 fewer than promised by the former State government. The Weekend Westhas obtained a copy of the “user agreement” between the AFL, West Coast Eagles, Fremantle Dockers and the Government’s stadium operator VenuesLive, which explains in detail how seats will be allocated, membership packages sold and events determined at the new stadium. According to the document, the allocation of 10,000 “daily admission tickets” in the 60,000-seat stadium will be broken up into five categories —
1000 tourism package seats,
1385 stadium membership seats, ( ie like Stadium Club at AO or Medallion Club at Docklands)
424 complimentary tickets for the football club playing on the day,
191 complimentary tickets for VenuesLive and
7000 general admission tickets.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/revealed-winners-and-losers-in-stadium-deal-ng-b88500757z
 

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tigerwill

Premiership Player
Mar 19, 2008
4,362
6,507
AFL Club
Richmond
Agree that member #s are very different to dollars, & taking one in isolation doesnt do much for any club.

**
What will the Tiges do following its flag, reputedly the home of 3 game membership, the dollars in 2018 should skyrocket.

Where do you get that from? Any facts or figures of how many 3 game members Richmond has? Any source, probably not, given the term "reputedly", or is it just a subtle jibe?
I find that an interesting assertion, given the fact that we had the highest attendance figures in the league.
 
So much of this PR bullshit spin.

The AFL used to provide break down of memberships by Adult, Concession and Juniors. Then between 2011 and 2014 they had an extra column and had a total non access figures. Now they just provide a global total in August and in their annual report in March. What are they scared of with not providing full info?? Plenty of clubs have 5,000 non access members and 15 of the 18 clubs had at least 1,996 (GC more than 10% of their total) in 2014. Just publish detailed breakdowns.

I get it that there are a lot of non 11 game memberships these days as the AFL takes the game to Launceston and Hobart, Darwin and Alice Springs, Cairns, Ballarat, you have interstate memberships, 5 game country memberships, 3 gamers, international memberships, you have MCG only, Docklands only and Kardinia Park only access memberships, so they aren't like they used to be 20 or 30 years ago, but some more detailed info would be handy. Even some break down on the non access numbers and categories would be useful.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Where do you get that from? Any facts or figures of how many 3 game members Richmond has? Any source, probably not, given the term "reputedly", or is it just a subtle jibe?
I find that an interesting assertion, given the fact that we had the highest attendance figures in the league.

Im the source. Its from past breakdowns of membership revenue/members, particularly 2013/2014.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
So much of this PR bullshit spin.

The AFL used to provide break down of memberships by Adult, Concession and Juniors. Then between 2011 and 2014 they had an extra column and had a total non access figures. Now they just provide a global total in August and in their annual report in March. What are they scared of with not providing full info?? Plenty of clubs have 5,000 non access members and 15 of the 18 clubs had at least 1,996 (GC more than 10% of their total) in 2014. Just publish detailed breakdowns.

I get it that there are a lot of non 11 game memberships these days as the AFL takes the game to Launceston and Hobart, Darwin and Alice Springs, Cairns, Ballarat, you have interstate memberships, 5 game country memberships, 3 gamers, international memberships, you have MCG only, Docklands only and Kardinia Park only access memberships, so they aren't like they used to be 20 or 30 years ago, but some more detailed info would be handy. Even some break down on the non access numbers and categories would be useful.

All known data since 1992 is here -
http://footyindustry.com/files/html/AFL_Club_Memberships_Revenue_1992_2017.html
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Where do you get that from? Any facts or figures of how many 3 game members Richmond has? Any source, probably not, given the term "reputedly", or is it just a subtle jibe?
I find that an interesting assertion, given the fact that we had the highest attendance figures in the league.

Last time reported it was discussed widely on BF, & I said reputedly because a quick look did not produce anything to link - where is telsor ? ** (edit: & the Wookie see above)

It relates to memberships nothing at all to do with attendances. Not sure why its even relevant, IF did read what was said before taking a fence ;).

At the time it was put down to the Tigers increase in 3 game members as I remember it, Jake Niall before he went to Fox.
& if I remember rightly, the Tiges are very light on financial info for memberships, still?

& if you read what was said it refers to the Dogs 2017, eluding to what the Tiges might do in 2018 - 19% in numbers, 32% in dollars, is a fair effort for any club & I suggested the Tiges will better it.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Thanks mate. I hope you didn't think i was questioning your work as i have seen you do spreadsheets before. I just don't get why the AFL stopped providing breakdowns of club memberships and AFL Club support memberships. They obviously reckon there is something to hide in presenting all the facts.

Nah I didnt think that at all. I literally only finished this one last night lol. Moving to html instead of images for the most part so copy and paste is easier. Club by Club version will be done tonight too.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
At the time it was put down to the Tigers increase in 3 game members as I remember it, Jake Niall before he went to Fox.

Its that the membership revenue was rather lower than expected down to $142 per member at one point, the lowest of all reported clubs bar GWS. Given a basic 11 game membership in Melbourne was around $180, to bring the average down to $142 is indicative of a decent number of 3 - 5 game members. See Hawthorn which at the same time had an average of $153 per member despite 8,000 tasmania 3 game members on board.

& if I remember rightly, the Tiges are very light on financial info for memberships, still?

We got some data in 2013 and 2014, but nothing before or after. See also: Port Adelaide whose annual reports are the worst for transparency.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
This was the split of those 10,000 according to The West

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/revealed-winners-and-losers-in-stadium-deal-ng-b88500757z
A leaked draft contract for the new Perth Stadium reveals that only 7000 general admission tickets will be available for AFL games — 3000 fewer than promised by the former State government. The Weekend Westhas obtained a copy of the “user agreement” between the AFL, West Coast Eagles, Fremantle Dockers and the Government’s stadium operator VenuesLive, which explains in detail how seats will be allocated, membership packages sold and events determined at the new stadium. According to the document, the allocation of 10,000 “daily admission tickets” in the 60,000-seat stadium will be broken up into five categories —
1000 tourism package seats,
1385 stadium membership seats, ( ie like Stadium Club at AO or Medallion Club at Docklands)
424 complimentary tickets for the football club playing on the day,
191 complimentary tickets for VenuesLive and
7000 general admission tickets.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/revealed-winners-and-losers-in-stadium-deal-ng-b88500757z

Just not sure how much the goal posts are moving REH, including suggestion the Eagles 3 & 5 game members might be encroaching on the 10k - Mr Mac has invited Col to the opening in an official capacity, Cols on the way out, bums on seats is the name of the game, maybe?
 

tigerwill

Premiership Player
Mar 19, 2008
4,362
6,507
AFL Club
Richmond

Thanks for that. Interesting.
Is it true that clubs report on their membership figures/income differently to one another in their Annual Reports?


Its that the membership revenue was rather lower than expected down to $142 per member at one point, the lowest of all reported clubs bar GWS. Given a basic 11 game membership in Melbourne was around $180, to bring the average down to $142 is indicative of a decent number of 3 - 5 game members. See Hawthorn which at the same time had an average of $153 per member despite 8,000 tasmania 3 game members on board..


There may be a difference in the $ level of club memberships between clubs which can explain the difference in yield. Do all clubs charge the same amazing for all levels of membership?

What would be the biggest difference $ wise in their highest membership level. What are the numbers for theses?
I wonder what the breakdown of numbers is for clubs with high end memberships. Not all have the same level or numbers, that can add more $s per ave member. Do some clubs include top coterie groups in their memberships?
For example do the essendonians or carltonians coteries included as "ordinary" members and/or their fundraising included as part thereof?
Collingwood have the Premiership Circle or Captains Club, RFC 3121 etc have similar, other clubs have their high end memberships. The more "high end memberships/coterie may give an inflated ave $ amount.

You'd probably need more accurate data to give a breakdown on yield. Rather than just an average.

It may be that given our recent history it was harder for us to attract the "high end" in big numbers. Only a guess. But I'd like to see a comparison with some of the other clubs with regard to cost of and actual numbers they have of these.
Maybe we just attract more "plebs" rather than the high roller set. I hope that changes.


There are quite a few discrepancies in how clubs report.
I think (from the last time I read through RFC Annual Report, not this year as I only have the concise report which gives little indication) that membership and (perhaps) merchandise was lumped in together. Something along those lines as there was some discussion on it.
Membership income haven't been very transparent for a few years.
Then I suppose it membership gross (income) and net (expenditure) is another number that has some relevance
 

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tigerwill

Premiership Player
Mar 19, 2008
4,362
6,507
AFL Club
Richmond
Last time reported it was discussed widely on BF, & I said reputedly because a quick look did not produce anything to link - where is telsor ? ** (edit: & the Wookie see above)

It relates to memberships nothing at all to do with attendances. Not sure why its even relevant, IF did read what was said before taking a fence ;).

At the time it was put down to the Tigers increase in 3 game members as I remember it, Jake Niall before he went to Fox.
& if I remember rightly, the Tiges are very light on financial info for memberships, still?

& if you read what was said it refers to the Dogs 2017, eluding to what the Tiges might do in 2018 - 19% in numbers, 32% in dollars, is a fair effort for any club & I suggested the Tiges will better it.

No offence taken mate. Just curious, I wasn't sure if it was a little dig or not. :D
I only mentioned attendances as there is some thought that memberships mean bugger all when clubs can't get people to games. It still has some relevance as to how well a club can attract people to games. As well as hopefully converting them to members.

Dunno what Jake Niall got to do with it. Bloody campaigners probably not even a member. He must have had a chat to Cain Liddell because he wouldn't have got it from our Annual Financial Report of the last few years. They tend to lump a few things in together. As probably some other clubs do.

Going by Wookiee data, there been little or no report of membership income for some years now. Even then, the easiest thing to do was to look at the income/membership and come up with an average and then draw a conclusion from that. In my post above I explained how that can slew figures $ amounts and averages.
But no doubt the best way, as you said, to increase membership, yield, etc is to have success and win a premiership.
Good that the Doggies got such a boost. I'm confident we'll do very well
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Thanks for that. Interesting.
Is it true that clubs report on their membership figures/income differently to one another in their Annual Reports?

Yes - on my spreadsheet linked above, anything highlighted in grey or pink indicates more than just membership revenue - may include gate reciepts, merchandise, fund raising and other activities.

There may be a difference in the $ level of club memberships between clubs which can explain the difference in yield. Do all clubs charge the same amazing for all levels of membership?

No, but within Melbourne clubs, the base level of memberships are within 5-10 dollars of each other.

You'd probably need more accurate data to give a breakdown on yield. Rather than just an average.

Probably, but this is all we have. And a low average tells us that there is significant low value memberships being purchased.

Then I suppose it membership gross (income) and net (expenditure) is another number that has some relevance

Net revenue has no bearing whatsover on the revenue/member figure other than to tell us how much it costs the club per member. It tells us nothing about the number of members or what kind of membership they have. Net membership revenue is a phenomenon particular to Richmond fans for some reason.
 

tigerwill

Premiership Player
Mar 19, 2008
4,362
6,507
AFL Club
Richmond
Yes - on my spreadsheet linked above, anything highlighted in grey or pink indicates more than just membership revenue - may include gate reciepts, merchandise, fund raising and other activities.

Ok thanks for the explanation. It sums up what I was saying, clubs report it differently

No, but within Melbourne clubs, the base level of memberships are within 5-10 dollars of each other.

Base level. Yep, But no "high level" $s or numbers thereof

Probably, but this is all we have. And a low average tells us that there is significant low value memberships being purchased.

Which can skew the low average, which what I was alluding to.
No doubt it's a big task trying to breakdown coteries, season passes, 18 game, 11 game, 5 game or even 3 game memberships from some of the information in Club Reports seeing they have different measures.


Net revenue has no bearing whatsover on the revenue/member figure other than to tell us how much it costs the club per member. It tells us nothing about the number of members or what kind of membership they have. Net membership revenue is a phenomenon particular to Richmond fans for some reason.

I agree. With both your first 2 comments.
As to net revenue, it was an observation. That's all.
I never knew Richmond fans were the only ones ever to raise it. But you must know to make that comment.

Just a couple of questions you may be able to help with. It's not to do with membership numbers per se, probably more to do with membership yield.
Does Reserved seating come into consideration with membership income or is that seperate?
By that I mean with some memberships you can have Reserved seating, some don't. Do clubs include that as membership income or is it through the AFL or the home ground ie MCG or Etihad.

On our board there was a discussion about getting more Reserved seating from the MCG. I asked, was this through the AFL? but was informed that clubs negotiate Reserved seating with the AFL grounds.
If so, does that Reserved seating income go toward membership income?
I think from memory Collingwood got a good deal for their members, even having an area reserved for away games at the MCG. Plenty good numbers of Reserved seating as well
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
No offence taken mate. Just curious, I wasn't sure if it was a little dig or not. :D
I only mentioned attendances as there is some thought that memberships mean bugger all when clubs can't get people to games. It still has some relevance as to how well a club can attract people to games. As well as hopefully converting them to members.

Dunno what Jake Niall got to do with it. Bloody campaigners probably not even a member. He must have had a chat to Cain Liddell because he wouldn't have got it from our Annual Financial Report of the last few years. They tend to lump a few things in together. As probably some other clubs do.

Going by Wookiee data, there been little or no report of membership income for some years now. Even then, the easiest thing to do was to look at the income/membership and come up with an average and then draw a conclusion from that. In my post above I explained how that can slew figures $ amounts and averages.
But no doubt the best way, as you said, to increase membership, yield, etc is to have success and win a premiership.
Good that the Doggies got such a boost. I'm confident we'll do very well

Jake would have got his info from AFL House, might update his earlier article now he's taken Caro's job. Thats what journos do.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Last time reported it was discussed widely on BF, & I said reputedly because a quick look did not produce anything to link - where is telsor ? ** (edit: & the Wookie see above)

Jake Niall article from 2014
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sp...eal-figures-for-your-club-20140506-zr5tt.html

Associated image


e0f6bd117fcbdf0767b15dea2da8c664212194db
 

tigerwill

Premiership Player
Mar 19, 2008
4,362
6,507
AFL Club
Richmond

Whats Jake Niall doing using Net Revenue figures? :D Even though the Hawks had 11k more members than Richmond they had the same net. No wonder some people want to discredit net income.
*edit* we must be cheapskates with what we include in membership packs :p
Going by your spreadsheet, it's interesting that the 2013 Hawks didn't have a single non access member. Not one.
The next they had 120. Damn good job if all your members were access members.



I notice Niall's figures answered my question I posted above regarding Reserved seating being included in membership income. With WC having an enormous amount and probably count those est. 8000 $65 "in the wings" memberships as well.
But it's probably fair to say with memberships, it's not comparing apples to apples. It's also fair to say there are too many variables.
Membership numbers tell one story. Membership income, obviously variable club to club, especially in how it's reported and the metrics used, quite another.
 
Last edited:

theflea

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 16, 2010
24,386
27,878
victoria
AFL Club
Richmond
That article by the AFL media ijourno is wrong. And it's not the first time their AFL's own media people dont know there what the rules and regulations are.

Since 2011 non access memberships have beern counted in the audited totals. You can be a club member with club membership rights but no game access rights to be counted. If social club rights are different to football club rights then they won't be counted.. As The_Wookie said they’ have tightened things up but as long as it meets the 4 criteria of at least $50, a name, contact details and membership pack then they are counted.
I think AFL membership would be non access members.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Where do you get that from? Any facts or figures of how many 3 game members Richmond has? Any source, probably not, given the term "reputedly", or is it just a subtle jibe?
I find that an interesting assertion, given the fact that we had the highest attendance figures in the league.

Good to see you looking for yourself, roll on 2018.
 

theflea

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 16, 2010
24,386
27,878
victoria
AFL Club
Richmond
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
From this graphic there are clubs that have more reduced game memberships so to say we are the home of 3 game memberships is flawed imo. What it does show is we have a smaller high end membership ie home and away so this would lower the ave per member.

Or the 3 game members are a bigger % of the Tigers total.
 
I think AFL membership would be non access members.
Thats dopey. They have access to their club's game at the MCG and if they tick the club support box of one of the 18 clubs, the AFL, out of the approx $500 membership fee for an adult, pays that AFL club the minimum amount the AFL sets for an 11 game club membership. So it meets all the access requirements.
 

Frank Grimes

Premiership Player
May 8, 2007
4,989
9,911
between two bowling alley
AFL Club
Richmond
No, but within Melbourne clubs, the base level of memberships are within 5-10 dollars of each other.

Probably, but this is all we have. And a low average tells us that there is significant low value memberships being purchased.
What do you mean by "base level" membership. If you are talking about 11 home game GA membership that my be the case. But I think there is a massive difference between club to club regarding reserved seating memberships. That should be considered because would have an impact on the average.
 

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