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HANDSOLO

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I was trying to think of what NFL team we mirror and I came up with the Packers. Green Bay . A spell of being champions under a legendary coach trying to regain that. My first awareness of NFL was when the Dolphins, Cowboys, 49’s and Redskins were “glamour “ clubs . I am a big fan of the commentators on nfl , who try to explain what’s going on without making us newbies feel like dummies. To me it’s like a moving chess game . Darren Bennett - San Diego chargers . Ex melb . Look him up .
Geelong Cats = Green Bay Packers. Small town, huge home ground advantage, two distinct periods of success (or near success), good drafting
 
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HANDSOLO

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Completely agree. I've been saying it for a while now but we are and will be a better side without Hogan.
I'd rather the 10 kicks I50 that would have gone to him spread around the other 5 forwards
I like to think of myself as his biggest defender on this forum
 

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Just finished the Saints game, and interestingly you all are discussing one of the main things I was curious about.

Early in the game Hogan takes a mark far outside the 50, and I realized that's something I've seen more and more of the last several games. At first I was chalking it up as a positive thing (maybe it's a sign of good work rate and helping out further from goal?), but I made a mental note to come here and ask if he was playing a different position than he had been playing earlier in the year (midfield/wing?). Meanwhile, Tommy Freaking McDonald was a beast in the air- wow, he took some great, strong marks in crowded spaces. I see why TopKent has been tipping him repeatedly. Announcers made sure to compare his willingness to go up and fight for a mark, with the exact opposite from some of the Saints (lol, McCartin). He wasn't perfect (terrible disposal attempt in the pocket to an open Petracca), but a few minutes later he took his best mark of the day. Great stuff.

Speaking of Petracca, I'm not sure what to make of him. He has raw athletic skill, but does he have the technical skill? Might be crazy, but is it possible his skill set could be better suited for the defensive end of the oval? It's hard for me to always make sense of where people are positioned on the field, but Fritsch took a flying mark in the defensive end at one point, so I assume he is playing defense at least some of the time. If so, I think I would rather see him forward and Petracca back. I really like both Fritsch and Spargo, and hope they continue to get lots of playing time.
Petracca actually has beautiful technical skills.

The thing that lets him down at times is his inability to slow down and think his way through things which causes him to have brain fades. We play a frenetic style of footy and sometimes I think he spooks himself into making a decision before he needs to. If he took an extra second to think his way through things and learn when to stop and when to go I think he would seem alot cleaner. Does that make sense?

I guess you could liken it to an impatient running back. If they are trying to barge through 100% of the time they rarely get the 1st down. However, if they have the awareness and patience to wait for a hole to open in the defensive line, they look a lot cleaner carrying the ball.
 

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Petracca actually has beautiful technical skills.

The thing that lets him down at times is his inability to slow down and think his way through things which causes him to have brain fades. We play a frenetic style of footy and sometimes I think he spooks himself into making a decision before he needs to. If he took an extra second to think his way through things and learn when to stop and when to go I think he would seem alot cleaner. Does that make sense?

I guess you could liken it to an impatient running back. If they are trying to barge through 100% of the time they rarely get the 1st down. However, if they have the awareness and patience to wait for a hole to open in the defensive line, they look a lot cleaner carrying the ball.
I guess this is my lack of experience with the sport. I didn’t give it much thought when I said it, but I guess my current view of Petracca is that he’s a big, strong, athletic kid, who hasn’t shown great skill at kicking the ball (I guess the various kicking skills are what I am considering technical skils- educate me on this footy fans).

Sounds like you feel he needs better patience and composure when he’s in possession. This wouldn’t surprise me for a younger player, since the Dees really push the attack. I’m betting he eventually “gets it”- he was a point guard at a very high level, and I have to think that will help.
 

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I guess this is my lack of experience with the sport. I didn’t give it much thought when I said it, but I guess my current view of Petracca is that he’s a big, strong, athletic kid, who hasn’t shown great skill at kicking the ball (I guess the various kicking skills are what I am considering technical skils- educate me on this footy fans).

Sounds like you feel he needs better patience and composure when he’s in possession. This wouldn’t surprise me for a younger player, since the Dees really push the attack. I’m betting he eventually “gets it”- he was a point guard at a very high level, and I have to think that will help.
Best analogy I could give you is he is like a quarterback always going for the miracle play. When it comes off it's a touchdown but he can also get intercepted. He needs to make more basic plays to allow the team to make those 3-5 yard gains rather than always going for a 40 yard touch down pass.

Petraccas kicking is high risk high reward too often
 

TheCount

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I guess this is my lack of experience with the sport. I didn’t give it much thought when I said it, but I guess my current view of Petracca is that he’s a big, strong, athletic kid, who hasn’t shown great skill at kicking the ball (I guess the various kicking skills are what I am considering technical skils- educate me on this footy fans).

Sounds like you feel he needs better patience and composure when he’s in possession. This wouldn’t surprise me for a younger player, since the Dees really push the attack. I’m betting he eventually “gets it”- he was a point guard at a very high level, and I have to think that will help.
I think it's composure and over thinking on his part. Neither of which are unusual from a young player, but there is plenty there to suggest he'll figure it all out. Generally speaking, his field kicking is good, but last season at least, his goal kicking was dreadful, which was particularly frustrating given the year before he was very accurate kicking 26 goals 6, if he kicked at the same rate last year, he'd have kicked 32.8 ... not that thats at all a realistic formula, but better goal kicking would change the perception of his season or sure.

Not sure why, but I think this will be his season, and he'll tear some games apart.
 

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Best analogy I could give you is he is like a quarterback always going for the miracle play. When it comes off it's a touchdown but he can also get intercepted. He needs to make more basic plays to allow the team to make those 3-5 yard gains rather than always going for a 40 yard touch down pass.

Petraccas kicking is high risk high reward too often
Good stuff. My overall feel for him so far is that he’s unreliable (that’s based on through round 7).

I just looked up his goals vs behinds for those rounds and they were 3 goals vs 8 behinds. I’m going to guess that those numbers, along with some poor distribution I have seen, are the basis for me questioning his ability.
 

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Also, now that you've finished the Saints game, next up is the Gold Coast Suns.

They're a young team, joining the competition in 2011, and really, they only thing of note that they've achieved is provide game times for elite talent to showcase their skills before requesting a trade to another team once their contract is up ... and sometimes before that.

One player you need to watch for is Steven May, Gold Coast's Captain in the number 17 jumper ... as he's now wearing the number 1 jumper at Melbourne. I'm most of the way through the 3rd qrt of this game as I type, he gets off to a rusty start, but keep your eyes peeled in the second qrt for the goal he kicks.

Also, his rusty start is largely from beaten in a few contests by the smaller Petracca ... just on topic.
 

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I think it's composure and over thinking on his part. Neither of which are unusual from a young player, but there is plenty there to suggest he'll figure it all out. Generally speaking, his field kicking is good, but last season at least, his goal kicking was dreadful, which was particularly frustrating given the year before he was very accurate kicking 26 goals 6, if he kicked at the same rate last year, he'd have kicked 32.8 ... not that thats at all a realistic formula, but better goal kicking would change the perception of his season or sure.

Not sure why, but I think this will be his season, and he'll tear some games apart.
Ok, sounds like he had a poor goal scoring season, while 2017 was very good.

So let’s talk about him, McCartin and Brayshaw. I’m assuming you feel very good about how things worked out in that draft? Was McCartin’s game vs the Dees that day a microcosm of his time in the AFL?

We’ve discussed Petracca already. I love Brayshaw, but I’m concerned about that helmet- I assume he’s had concussion issues.
 

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TheCount

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Ok, sounds like he had a poor goal scoring season, while 2017 was very good.

So let’s talk about him, McCartin and Brayshaw. I’m assuming you feel very good about how things worked out in that draft? Was McCartin’s game vs the Dees that day a microcosm of his time in the AFL?

We’ve discussed Petracca already. I love Brayshaw, but I’m concerned about that helmet- I assume he’s had concussion issues.
We're all hoping it was anomaly with Trac's goal kicking. It's plainly obvious that at this stage at least, he's the definition of a confidence player, and spoiler alert, his confidence gets worse for a fair few games from here. But if he starts this season off well in front of goal, it'll likely bode well for him.

Yeah very happy with how that draft went, at the time it happened, and it's only gotten better since. That is indeed about par for McCartin, not that I've watched every game he's played, but I've still not seen a whole lot to suggest that he'll get there, like, in my opinion at least, you could with Weid early on, with the way he jumps at the footy and takes it at his highest point, as well as his technically excellent goal kicking action. In McCartin's defence tho, he's had a fair number of injuries over his career so far, headlined by some pretty serious concussion issues - he goes on to finish the season wearing a helmet the same as Brayshaw's - but whether those injuries have delayed him becoming a good player, or have delayed him being written off as a bust remains to be seen.

On Brayshaw and his helmet, he had like 4-5 concussions within 12 months, a couple of nasty ones - like Neal-Bullen thumping what would have been a 50m kick into the back of his head from 10m away, and probably more concerning, some innocuous ones that you wouldn't expect issues from. Fortunately, he hasn't had one in over a year now, ever since he started wearing the helmet, so hopefully he's out of the woods now, because as you can see, he's a serious player.
 

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Also, now that you've finished the Saints game, next up is the Gold Coast Suns.

They're a young team, joining the competition in 2011, and really, they only thing of note that they've achieved is provide game times for elite talent to showcase their skills before requesting a trade to another team once their contract is up ... and sometimes before that.

One player you need to watch for is Steven May, Gold Coast's Captain in the number 17 jumper ... as he's now wearing the number 1 jumper at Melbourne. I'm most of the way through the 3rd qrt of this game as I type, he gets off to a rusty start, but keep your eyes peeled in the second qrt for the goal he kicks.

Also, his rusty start is largely from beaten in a few contests by the smaller Petracca ... just on topic.
I’ve heard the excitement around May coming in, didn’t realize be came from GC.

I’m keeping track of league-wide results and the ladder each week as I’m following the Dees and I’m surprised to see that GC has gotten off to a decent start (relative to where they finish).

Knowing where they finish, I feel like we better bury them in this game, but I’m guessing this may have looked like a tricky road game when it happened?

I’ll watch this one tommorow if I can, because I like being on a similar watch schedule.
 

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We're all hoping it was anomaly with Trac's goal kicking. It's plainly obvious that at this stage at least, he's the definition of a confidence player, and spoiler alert, his confidence gets worse for a fair few games from here. But if he starts this season off well in front of goal, it'll likely bode well for him.

Yeah very happy with how that draft went, at the time it happened, and it's only gotten better since. That is indeed about par for McCartin, not that I've watched every game he's played, but I've still not seen a whole lot to suggest that he'll get there, like, in my opinion at least, you could with Weid early on, with the way he jumps at the footy and takes it at his highest point, as well as his technically excellent goal kicking action. In McCartin's defence tho, he's had a fair number of injuries over his career so far, headlined by some pretty serious concussion issues - he goes on to finish the season wearing a helmet the same as Brayshaw's - but whether those injuries have delayed him becoming a good player, or have delayed him being written off as a bust remains to be seen.

On Brayshaw and his helmet, he had like 4-5 concussions within 12 months, a couple of nasty ones - like Neal-Bullen thumping what would have been a 50m kick into the back of his head from 10m away, and probably more concerning, some innocuous ones that you wouldn't expect issues from. Fortunately, he hasn't had one in over a year now, ever since he started wearing the helmet, so hopefully he's out of the woods now, because as you can see, he's a serious player.
Great info as always. Would love to hear thoughts on some of our other players if you have the time. I’m a fan of Jetta and Hibbert. I have a feeling I rate Hunt higher than I should, due to his running ability.
 

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Good stuff. My overall feel for him so far is that he’s unreliable (that’s based on through round 7).

I just looked up his goals vs behinds for those rounds and they were 3 goals vs 8 behinds. I’m going to guess that those numbers, along with some poor distribution I have seen, are the basis for me questioning his ability.
In terms of raw untapped natural ability he probably has almost as much as anyone in the AFL. It's whether or not our coaches and himself can shape it into that elite talent
 

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In terms of raw untapped natural ability he probably has almost as much as anyone in the AFL. It's whether or not our coaches and himself can shape it into that elite talent
This is really interesting to me (remember this is all new to me, so resist any urge you have to suspect me of trolling).

Is it his kicking ability (kicking motion?) that set him apart?
 

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I’m keeping track of league-wide results and the ladder each week as I’m following the Dees and I’m surprised to see that GC has gotten off to a decent start (relative to where they finish).

Knowing where they finish, I feel like we better bury them in this game, but I’m guessing this may have looked like a tricky road game when it happened?
I've noticed this about Gold Coast in that they usually have a good start to a season before falling off a cliff. It doesn't help that this was the first season without Gary Ablett Jnr. His dad kicked 1000 goals for Geelong in the 80s-90s and Jnr. had already won 2 premierships with Geelong in '07 and '09 before joining the new expansion side in 2011. He won the Brownlow in 2011 (One of Gold Coast's only 2 achievements) and generally when he was on fire they'd lose by 5 goals and when he wasn't, they'd lose by 15 goals.

Looking at the Footy Tipping for the board, the consensus was a 5 goal win.
 

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This is really interesting to me (remember this is all new to me, so resist any urge you have to suspect me of trolling).

Is it his kicking ability (kicking motion?) that set him apart?
One thing that is very different between AFL and NFL is the stage players are at when they start their career.

Before coming to the NFL players develop in the college system and by the time they make it to the NFL they are experienced in a professional system and expected to make an immediate impact, especially players drafted in the first few rounds. Alot of the time, if they aren't immediately up to standard they are cut.

However, in the AFL they are drafted straight out of high school as 18 year olds which require a lot more patience. This means that they are developing on the job. It is common for even the high draft picks to have inconsistencies in their performance and most don't come into their prime until around 24 to 25 years old. This means that AFL coaches have to balance both the development of young players as well as picking the best side each week.

Melbourne's core group of talented players are only just about to come into that 24 to 25 yo age range in the next couple of years. Which is exciting
 

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This is really interesting to me (remember this is all new to me, so resist any urge you have to suspect me of trolling).

Is it his kicking ability (kicking motion?) that set him apart?
It's alot of things, it's the penetration in his kicking ( The ability to get it to a target low and flat so that it can't be spoiled )
It's his vision of kicking, he sees passes that create goals, very attacking passes often that regular players don't.

He has this raw power that blokes his size normally don't have which makes him hard to match up on.

He has an incredible standing jump which means he often outmarks any one of similar size to him and bigger

He plays with a brashness and confidence that the very best athletes need
 

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I’ve heard the excitement around May coming in, didn’t realize be came from GC.

I’m keeping track of league-wide results and the ladder each week as I’m following the Dees and I’m surprised to see that GC has gotten off to a decent start (relative to where they finish).

Knowing where they finish, I feel like we better bury them in this game, but I’m guessing this may have looked like a tricky road game when it happened?

I’ll watch this one tommorow if I can, because I like being on a similar watch schedule.
I've noticed this about Gold Coast in that they usually have a good start to a season before falling off a cliff. It doesn't help that this was the first season without Gary Ablett Jnr. His dad kicked 1000 goals for Geelong in the 80s-90s and Jnr. had already won 2 premierships with Geelong in '07 and '09 before joining the new expansion side in 2011. He won the Brownlow in 2011 (One of Gold Coast's only 2 achievements) and generally when he was on fire they'd lose by 5 goals and when he wasn't, they'd lose by 15 goals.

Looking at the Footy Tipping for the board, the consensus was a 5 goal win.
The curse of a young team is that they tire as the season goes on, we've seen it a lot ourselves. The difficulty for Gold Coast, and you'll hear the commentators in that game talk a lot about it, that because of the Commonwealth Games being held out of their home stadium, they had to to a lot of travelling, like double the amount of travel a Melb based club would have to do in a whole season, and they did it in the first 6 rounds. Couple that with some injuries to key players, putting more young players out there, I think they just ran out of puff.
 

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Great info as always. Would love to hear thoughts on some of our other players if you have the time. I’m a fan of Jetta and Hibbert. I have a feeling I rate Hunt higher than I should, due to his running ability.
Hibberd is an absolute star. He was a mature aged draftee to Essendon (mature aged is anyone who wasn't drafted as an 18 year old and played senior football - Vandenberg, Hannan, Fritsch and both Wagner's were all mature agers as well) After the drug's scandal, and he'd sat out his year ban, he requested a trade to Melbourne, the year after his former team mate Jake Melksham did the same (so he served his suspension while on our list) which lead to an interesting situation, the year before we traded Pick 25 for Melksham to Essendon, which was universally considered paying far too much, but we did the trade for the simple fact that it was the only pick we had around the mark for him. Fast forward a year, and doing the deal for Hibberd, Essendon accepted Pick 27, which this time was universally accepted to be under value, but Essendon obviously figured that it evened out from the Melksham trade, these days, you might have noticed that Melksham is also an absolute gun, and we won both trades big time! On a playing front, his 2017 season was phenomenal, and while he was down on that a bit in 2018, he's still an integral part of our team. Powerful and accurate left boot, loves to take the game on, and is excellent one on one. Comfortably one of the best half back in the competition.

As for Jetta, he has a great story. He was initially drafted as a forward at the end of 2008, he debuted Round 1 in 2009, and played 15 games that season, however he never really set the world alight, and in his next few years played limited games. When Paul Roos came on as coach in 2014 (not sure if you've been told the story of Roos yet) Jetta was delisted with the intention to redraft him as a Rookie. Roos decided to turn him into a small defender, and since then, he's managed to turn himself into the hands down the best small defender in the competition, that has been criminally denied the multiple All Australian honours that he so rightly deserves. He is also as good off the field as he is on, doing a power of work in the aboriginal community. If you get to join in the Match Day threads this season, you will season plenty of mentions of #ChurchofNev where us mere mortals pay homage to the great man.

Sorry for the novels, in answer your "if you have the time" ... my wife and kids are interstate visiting grand parents, so yes, I have plenty.
 

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Hibberd is an absolute star. He was a mature aged draftee to Essendon (mature aged is anyone who wasn't drafted as an 18 year old and played senior football - Vandenberg, Hannan, Fritsch and both Wagner's were all mature agers as well) After the drug's scandal, and he'd sat out his year ban, he requested a trade to Melbourne, the year after his former team mate Jake Melksham did the same (so he served his suspension while on our list) which lead to an interesting situation, the year before we traded Pick 25 for Melksham to Essendon, which was universally considered paying far too much, but we did the trade for the simple fact that it was the only pick we had around the mark for him. Fast forward a year, and doing the deal for Hibberd, Essendon accepted Pick 27, which this time was universally accepted to be under value, but Essendon obviously figured that it evened out from the Melksham trade, these days, you might have noticed that Melksham is also an absolute gun, and we won both trades big time! On a playing front, his 2017 season was phenomenal, and while he was down on that a bit in 2018, he's still an integral part of our team. Powerful and accurate left boot, loves to take the game on, and is excellent one on one. Comfortably one of the best half back in the competition.

As for Jetta, he has a great story. He was initially drafted as a forward at the end of 2008, he debuted Round 1 in 2009, and played 15 games that season, however he never really set the world alight, and in his next few years played limited games. When Paul Roos came on as coach in 2014 (not sure if you've been told the story of Roos yet) Jetta was delisted with the intention to redraft him as a Rookie. Roos decided to turn him into a small defender, and since then, he's managed to turn himself into the hands down the best small defender in the competition, that has been criminally denied the multiple All Australian honours that he so rightly deserves. He is also as good off the field as he is on, doing a power of work in the aboriginal community. If you get to join in the Match Day threads this season, you will season plenty of mentions of #ChurchofNev where us mere mortals pay homage to the great man.

Sorry for the novels, in answer your "if you have the time" ... my wife and kids are interstate visiting grand parents, so yes, I have plenty.
 
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