Opinion Derailed Off-Topic Thread / Are You Bored With Life? discussion

surelyin20

Draftee
Jan 17, 2017
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Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here

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MOD EDIT: so, a first post from a new account in the Jake Lever thread talks about Rory? OT, moved. Same as the Danger retread of the next page, moved. In fact, the whole system is out of order! Luckily we have threads like these to dump OT stuff in, thus preserving our glorious shared cultural heritage for generations to come.




Very sure about Lever but worried about RoryS. His partner reporting on the Aust Open is a red flag in my opinion. Clubs cast a net far and wide these days..
 
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Mar 28, 2011
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We gave up the best player in the comp for a mid first and mid second. As if we could get more than that for Lever.
Mostly because of FA restrictions

If Danger was being traded normally, we'd likely have been given a lot more than we were
 
Mar 28, 2011
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He was traded normally.
He wasnt a FA as we would have matched their offer, so it was a straight up trade.
If we did match their offer, would Danger have done a Cam McCarthy and left for Moggs Creek regardless? Because for some reason I think that was the noise at the time
 

Pdub

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Nov 16, 2014
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He was traded normally.
He wasnt a FA as we would have matched their offer, so it was a straight up trade.

When one side has the option to pay the player more and take them as a free agent if the trade demands are too high, it is not a normal trade.
 

Cleric

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Oct 14, 2011
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If we did match their offer, would Danger have done a Cam McCarthy and left for Moggs Creek regardless? Because for some reason I think that was the noise at the time
Was never going to happen. After the trade went through Geelong even said they would have given more up for him if they had to and would not have let it go to the PSD.
 

Cleric

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When one side has the option to pay the player more and take them as a free agent if the trade demands are too high, it is not a normal trade.
It was a normal trade. Dont reinvent history to downplay how crap we did in that trade. Hell, they even offloaded Gore to us for a third rounder.
 

Pdub

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Nov 16, 2014
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When one side has the option to pay the player more and take them as a free agent if the trade demands are too high, it is not a normal trade.

was he a restricted free agent?

does this mean they could increase their offer to him past ours and take him without trading?

does this option exist to all trades?


The answers are Yes, Yes, No.

That makes it not a normal trade.

Geelongs options were plan A) Dangerfield + Henderson. or plan B) Dangerfield + 2 x 1st round picks and a 1 x 2nd round pick.

They preferred option A, but option B is still a good outcome for them.

If trading for Dangerfield became too expensive, they would have moved on to plan B pretty quickly.
 
does this mean they could increase their offer to him past ours and take him without trading?
They could have, but that was a one shot thing. If they upped their offer to him above what we were offering and we did match then the FA threat was gone completely, and power would have swung back to us. It would have been a gamble for them to try and push it through as a FA transfer, it worked better for them as a threat than actually employing it.
 
Jun 7, 2011
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was he a restricted free agent?

does this mean they could increase their offer to him past ours and take him without trading?

does this option exist to all trades?


The answers are Yes, Yes, No.

That makes it not a normal trade.

Geelongs options were plan A) Dangerfield + Henderson. or plan B) Dangerfield + 2 x 1st round picks and a 1 x 2nd round pick.

They preferred option A, but option B is still a good outcome for them.

If trading for Dangerfield became too expensive, they would have moved on to plan B pretty quickly.

Answer 2 is actually NO. No wonder you've struggled with this for so long.
 

Pdub

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They could have, but that was a one shot thing. If they upped their offer to him above what we were offering and we did match then the FA threat was gone completely, and power would have swung back to us. It would have been a gamble for them to try and push it through as a FA transfer, it worked better for them as a threat than actually employing it.

Not a huge gamble for them as free agent period ended half way through the trade period, so if we had a high price and they decided it was better for them to go the free agency route, even if it failed they still had another week to work out a trade. At that point it would have been a normal trade. But if they put Henderson's $600k on top of PD's salary I think it would be very unlikely we could have matched. I think they also would have given PD a "contract extension" 12 months later that restructured his salary back to $800k/year, and brought in Henderson or someone similar in the trade period just gone.
 

Pdub

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Answer 2 is actually NO. No wonder you've struggled with this for so long.

Didn't does not mean couldn't.

It was an option they could take, likely an option that would require them not trading for Henderson, Smith or taking Selwood, but it was an option to them.

What would you choose, Dangerfield or Henderson & Smith?

Obviously you would choose Dangerfield.
 
Mar 21, 2016
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Rooch? Is that you?
User name would have been surlyin20 if it was.

Though the warning is apt. Its not 3 months that clubs decide on a player it is 18-24 months that they start making the efforts. Though is the Tennis the only thing Belinda does ?
 
Not a huge gamble for them as free agent period ended half way through the trade period, so if we had a high price and they decided it was better for them to go the free agency route, even if it failed they still had another week to work out a trade. At that point it would have been a normal trade. But if they put Henderson's $600k on top of PD's salary I think it would be very unlikely we could have matched.


The FA period ending would have had the same effect of handing the advantage back to us, that's why they wanted to get it done quickly, while they still had that threat to hold over us.

There was a gamble on our side too, if we pushed them too hard and they gave a FA offer we couldn't match we'd have screwed ourselves over. It was a game of bluffs.


I think they also would have given PD a "contract extension" 12 months later that restructured his salary back to $800k/year, and brought in Henderson or someone similar in the trade period just gone.
Given the AFL had specifically highlighted this kind of manipulation as something they were watching out for, I don't think this was likely.
 
Mar 21, 2016
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Given the AFL had specifically highlighted this kind of manipulation as something they were watching out for, I don't think this was likely.
I have silently agreed with most of your arguments but you are talking about the same AFL that brushed over Geelongs oops Trade of draft numbers.
 

Pdub

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The FA period ending would have had the same effect of handing the advantage back to us, that's why they wanted to get it done quickly, while they still had that threat to hold over us.

There was a gamble on our side too, if we pushed them too hard and they gave a FA offer we couldn't match we'd have screwed ourselves over. It was a game of bluffs.



Given the AFL had specifically highlighted this kind of manipulation as something they were watching out for, I don't think this was likely.

There is nothing the AFL can do about it, the clubs can only get in trouble if they put it in writing that it's what will happen and get caught. A player is able to renegotiate their contract at anytime if club and player both agree.
 
There is nothing the AFL can do about it, the clubs can only get in trouble if they put it in writing that it's what will happen and get caught. A player is able to renegotiate their contract at anytime if club and player both agree.

They don't need it in writing, that would make RFA completely pointless as every RFA player would sign a short term $2m contract and immediately 'renegotiate' down to a reasonable amount with an extension. They were warning that that sudden drop in annual remuneration was the evidence they would use.
 
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