List Mgmt. 2018 Draft, Free Agency & Trade Hypotheticals thread, Part II: Nothing happened!

[doona]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-13/trade-winds-giants-conduct-a-fire-sale

Langdon is weighing up a six-year offer from Sydney and has also been linked to Fremantle, where his brother Ed is a key contributor.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

So to sum up you are saying we should make it even less attractive to move to Sydney and play for our club and shorter contracts to give quicker access to Victorian clubs to extract any player not buying into penalty systems.

No BB. You are bowdlerising the argument.

The game is risk and reward, all other things being equal, which I acknowledge they are not.

As I said above, I expect most players would back themselves in.

 

[Punts]

6 years why Sydney why

Scully for 53

Over it

 

[Banyo Bloods]

No BB. You are bowdlerising the argument.

The game is risk and reward, all other things being equal, which I acknowledge they are not.

As I said above, I expect most players would back themselves in.

Oh you are actually serious? I book marked your post for when my son was old enough to read so we could both enjoy a chuckle together.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

6 years why Sydney why

Scully for 53

Over it

Because nobody wants to come to our club without some kind of incentive if this trade period is any evidence.

 

[Punts]

I think it’s just ******* crazy offering 6 year deals to a hbf like Langdon

This is were we get ourselves in trouble imo with long term deals like Hanners, Tippett, Jack etc etc

IMO

 

[doona]

Brilliant! Thanks

Does it do Ad Block?

Just gets you through the paywall.

 

[Punts]

Get finlayson instead

Much cheaper

 

[doona]

I think it’s just ******* crazy offering 6 year deals to a hbf like Langdon

This is were we get ourselves in trouble imo with long term deals like Hanners, Tippett, Jack etc etc

IMO

I swear since the Buddy deal, contract lengths in the AFL have ridiculously increased. Especially luring players from other clubs

 

[Cadsky]

3 years used to be a good deal. Players would jump at it. Now they expect 4-6 contracts

 

[Superstar swan]

3 years used to be a good deal. Players would jump at it. Now they expect 4-6 contracts

Yep its a changing landscape. Players are overpaid now aswell.. seems like every player that comes out of contract is worth 600k minimum

 

[Punts]

The top 4 this year maybes

Wce add - Gaff , shepherd , hickey and maybe Kelly - loose lycett

Richmond- lynch - loose conca

Hawks - wingard and Scully - loose burton

Pies - beams - loose Langdon

 

[Andyjh]

I think it’s just ******* crazy offering 6 year deals to a hbf like Langdon

This is were we get ourselves in trouble imo with long term deals like Hanners, Tippett, Jack etc etc

IMO

And on top of that what are we giving to the Pies?

 

[bedford]

Go to a lunch at the G yesterday with my namesake and have missed 558 posts , great stuff all. Anything decent posted ?

 

[Banyo Bloods]

I think it’s just ******* crazy offering 6 year deals to a hbf like Langdon

This is were we get ourselves in trouble imo with long term deals like Hanners, Tippett, Jack etc etc

IMO

We started doing that to protect player retention when GWS had the chance to extract players. During that time I thought it was pretty Savvy of the Swans. Now it's a beast that has gotten out of control with longer contracts across the league. My opinion is that we have to offer things that are risky to get players to come to Sydney because looking from the outside the club is going to slide. Brisbane are probably better placed because they are on a predictive upper climb. NSW and Qld always going to have those issues. Still year in year out we keep working hard at the draft to maintain a high level and hope we jag a puzzle piece to elevate to top four.

We need a quick outside mid more than a HBF in my opinion

 

[Banyo Bloods]

Go to a lunch at the G yesterday with my namesake and have missed 558 posts , great stuff all. Anything decent posted ?

Well you were mentioned that you'd be going nuts at some of the posts so perhaps best not to read too many.

 

[doona]

The top 4 this year maybes

Wce add - Gaff , shepherd , hickey and maybe Kelly - loose lycett

Richmond- lynch - loose conca

Hawks - wingard and Scully - loose burton

Pies - beams - loose Langdon

Last year the winners of the trade period didn't play finals.

The 4 preliminary finalists (3 of which jumped up a lot from the previous year) and eventual premiers did nothing.

On top of that most tipped Collingwood & the Eagles to finish outside the 8.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Go to a lunch at the G yesterday with my namesake and have missed 558 posts , great stuff all. Anything decent posted ?

You could probably answer that yourself really.

 

[The Gong]

Go to a lunch at the G yesterday with my namesake and have missed 558 posts , great stuff all. Anything decent posted ?

All quiet on the western front

 

[Punts]

Last year the winners of the trade period didn't play finals.

The 4 preliminary finalists (3 of which jumped up a lot from the previous year) and eventual premiers did nothing.

On top of that most tipped Collingwood & the Eagles to finish outside the 8.

I’m talking this year and what’s added

 

[bedford]

All quiet on the western front

What about the Southern front ?

 

[momentbymoment]

Id go as far to say that the system is broken and this years trade period is evidence of that.

The Vic clubs make up 55% of the clubs yet 70% (est.) of the players originate from Vic. which is a massive advantage. The S.A. and W.A. clubs aren't as severely affected because there are sufficient players who originate from those states. It's the N.S.W. and Qld. clubs who are left with the scraps unless they pay a player a premium which is what we have had to do.

Fortunately, our culture and development programs help us retain some players but the fact remains that if we had the culture and development programs of a St.Kilda or a North we would be looking more like GCS.

The Vic clubs would argue that we have the academies to offset this, but they have academies too. In fact, I would argue that their academies will be producing more talent than ours because they get to pick the eyes out of the best multicultural youth who come from the bountiful and numerous junior clubs.

This is true and it drives me nuts ....

BUT
It’s reality.

The real problem is that the VFL propaganda department created a narrative that we are the Bondi Billionaire club. We are not. We are a bunch of misfits with a collective desire to smash the Victorian clubs into the ground.

The blooods spirit is what won us the flag in 2005 and 2012, and it’s what will win us the next flag next time around.

 

[momentbymoment]

Because nobody wants to come to our club without some kind of incentive if this trade period is any evidence.

And that’s why COLA was invented.
If it helps at all, no one wants to go to any of the other northern clubs without incentive.

 

[Tedeski]

Dignity went out the back door, shortly after any semblance of common sense galloped into the distance when we allowed Kurt Moneyball enough games to trigger a contract extension.

We should have traded him after the 2016 GF. I hope the urban legend of Reg taking exception to Moneyball after that debacle is true. Would make me feel better about the penalty we are still paying under the TPP.

Had the hard decision been taken then, we may not have had Owen last year. We compounded the decision by gifting games this and last year to underperformerms on big contracts like Rohan and Hanners

Selecting underperforming players based on the size of their contract, history or perceived potential handicaps team prospects. It also sends a poor signal to other members of the team and corrodes morale.

I am pleased the Club is turning the ship around. The trades of Hanners and Rohan are a positive signal.

It denotes a willingness to cut losses. It also signifies a willingness to be fair to other players on the list about the imperative of current performance.

The trick going forward is to better structure contracts going forward. Obviously this is hard in the current rapacious environment where player retention is under extreme pressure. The non Vic clubs, particularly in NSW and Qbillyland, are vulnerable.

I think we should try and reserve 5% of our TPP each year for rewarding performance, eg position in b&f, selection in AA etc. All individual contracts should include performance criteria beyond games played. This would prevent absurd Moneyball situations or auto extensions of contracts such as that which triggered Nick Smith's this year.

I would build more incentives and penalties into the longer and more expensive contracts. If a player on more than median dollars fails to perform, their pay is reduced for the next season.

Most players are competitive beasts and would back themselves to perform. I expect most would agree to a bonus-penalty system. If they object we don't want them.

We have *****d ourselves with long contracts with a minority of players. In 2017 and 2018 of the alleged high earners, we paid overs for Hanners, Jack, Moneyball and Rohan. Buddy, JPK and Parker more than earned their keep.

Anyway these are some random thoughts from someone who has advised on structuring pay (among my other crimes).

You have failed to address how having our CoLA stripped immediately & the trading ban applied immediately has affected any previous recruiting decisions & future decisions up until this point.
Not even mentioned it yet you say "We have *****d ourselves with long contracts with a minority of players." I don't understand the anger & ridicule directed at the club when considering all this we haven't become the begging basket case the AFL intended us to become when the trade ban was applied.
I don't think you actually understand how much not being able to bring in a player we may have targeted, has affected us & having to enter trade week suddenly having both hands tied, by Mike Thatfatprick which didn't allow us to be our usual selves at the trade table. We instantly had the ability to bring in talent taken from us. The fact that the Players Association were the only people to raise it with the AFL suggests that some players were affected by the nonsensical decision.

When you listen to this:


And read this:
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...s/news-story/1d0c3de435a6c2450c888574055be73c

how could any Swan supporter choose to take aim at their club before addressing the disgraceful & illegal trade ban applied to us in order to have us hit rock bottom until we came back grovelling to the AFL.

That we haven't grovelled back & instead made a Grand Final in 2016 despite all that, it should actually have us more proud & more defiant at standing up for our club instead of choosing to ridicule any 'mistake' or error we've made in hindsight.
I don't get it & I will ALWAYS refer to this trade ban when someone attacks the club & more disappointing is our own supporters who keep repeating the same sooky sh.t when they feel 'embarrassed' that we haven't won a flag.

Just listen to Gilligan & Mike Thatfatprick in those links above & see if can can keep a straight face while ridiculing our club for off field decisions over these last few years since that ban. By all means blame the gameplan & the coach, but you'll find all is directly related to the fact we were forced to bring in young talent from the moment the trade ban was applied & without the ability to trade in quality mature players, as we did with Mummy, JPK, McGlynn & Jetts in 2010, we were always going to be in a rebuild mode while staying reasonably competitive. Now that we have done. We have been inconsistent in games & from week to week, but we have in no way embarrassed ourselves as a club & certainly don't deserve ridicule from our own supporter base knowing what went down once we recruited Buddy.
Yes we have made mistakes no doubt but only because we had to have a crack with what we had.

 

[Tedeski]

Not agro at you by the way B52 but just wish we would direct the bulk of our angst at the AFL for the way they manipulate the rules to create a certain outcome.