List Mgmt. 2018 Draft, Free Agency & Trade Hypotheticals thread, Part II: Nothing happened!

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Tedeski

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I'm not sure the Dunkley case would meet the case for draft tampering. From memory Dunkley did not opt to be drafted as a father son. That was his right.

Nick Blakey opted to not nominate as a father/son with Norf or Brisbane, instead opting to be selected by us as an Academy player. That is hardly draft tampering.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-28/dunkleys-draft-deal-how-josh-ended-up-at-dogs

"But while Dunkley eventually nominated the Swans as a potential destination via the father-son rule in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft, many were surprised when the club failed to match the Bulldogs' second-round bid for the midfielder.
AFL.com.au can now reveal that rather than going cold on the 189cm midfielder, the Swans had agreed to do what they could to keep him close to his family in Yarram, country Victoria.
While the football world expected the Swans to match any bid that came for the AFL academy graduate, a deal had been struck to try to keep Dunkley in Melbourne to be closer to his family home in Yarram, four hours east of Melbourne.
A recruiter, who wished to remain anonymous and is not affiliated with the Swans or Bulldogs, revealed why the Swans became the first club not to match a bid on a father-son prospect.
"The family was pretty keen to see Josh stay in Melbourne and the Swans understood that," the recruiter said.
"The Swans agreed not to match a bid from a (Victorian) club for him, only if (the bid) came from a side outside Victoria.
"It's fair to say (the Dunkleys) were very happy when Josh ended up at the Dogs."
The Swans denied at the time that they gifted Dunkley to the Bulldogs with pick 25, saying they already had similar players of his type.

Yep! Draft tampering IMO.
 

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swansfan51

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How about some balls from the AFL just as they did with this Brett Chalmers scenario.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/01/09/the-tamper-affair-how-pies-lost-a-young-star/

"When the Tigers made him their last pick in the ’89 draft, they set off a chain of events that would change the football landscape, and consign the 196cm ruckman/key position player to three years in limbo.“When we drafted him in 1989 (then-Collingwood recruiting manager) ‘Gubby’ Allan said, ‘Why did you draft him?’” Vickers told Inside Football. According to Vickers, this was the first indication that the Magpies, too, had their sharp eyes on the promising tall.
As it turned out, Vickers’ gut feel was right. Chalmers was keen to play for Collingwood and the Pies were desperate to have him.
“We flew him over in 1990 or ’91 and he kept on developing and kept on getting better,” Vickers said.
“Through that period of three years that we had him we knew that Collingwood was blowing wind up his backside, which wasn’t in accordance of the rules.”

Why don't the AFL just let it be open slather & let players go where they want?
Because they know that within 5 years, the 6 non viable Vic clubs & 2 or 3 non viable interstate clubs will be gone in an instant. So they would rathet keep a foot in each camp & apply the rules only when it seems a club needs punishment.
Refer to our trade ban for playing by the rules.
Just my thoughts which are related to trading in order to stay on topic.
Under this theory, what penalty should the Swans get for entering into a draft tampering agreement to not select a player if he was bid on by certain clubs?
 

Bloodied52

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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-28/dunkleys-draft-deal-how-josh-ended-up-at-dogs

"But while Dunkley eventually nominated the Swans as a potential destination via the father-son rule in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft, many were surprised when the club failed to match the Bulldogs' second-round bid for the midfielder.
AFL.com.au can now reveal that rather than going cold on the 189cm midfielder, the Swans had agreed to do what they could to keep him close to his family in Yarram, country Victoria.
While the football world expected the Swans to match any bid that came for the AFL academy graduate, a deal had been struck to try to keep Dunkley in Melbourne to be closer to his family home in Yarram, four hours east of Melbourne.
A recruiter, who wished to remain anonymous and is not affiliated with the Swans or Bulldogs, revealed why the Swans became the first club not to match a bid on a father-son prospect.
"The family was pretty keen to see Josh stay in Melbourne and the Swans understood that," the recruiter said.
"The Swans agreed not to match a bid from a (Victorian) club for him, only if (the bid) came from a side outside Victoria.
"It's fair to say (the Dunkleys) were very happy when Josh ended up at the Dogs."
The Swans denied at the time that they gifted Dunkley to the Bulldogs with pick 25, saying they already had similar players of his type.

Yep! Draft tampering IMO.
Hardly. I think we behaved with honour.
 

Tedeski

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But seriously Ted, what you're suggesting is that we entered into a draft tampering agreement. You are suggesting that those are awful, what penalty should we receive?
I am serious. A trade ban.
We got one for following the rules, so because we all seem to agree that the rules & punishments are applied & made up on the run, then it is a lottery what we should get.
So I seriously think that if two parties get together to fix an outcome should this or this happen & that seems against the grain of what would usually happen, then yes, perhaps a trade ban or loss of a pick would be fitting. Now when such a player nominates a club, that club usually matches & we didn't. The AFL didn't investigate it because it is rampant throughout the AFL so compared to those we should get nothing. But when you look back to the Brett Chalmers episode, that was brutal but that doesn't bode well for the type of manufactured competition the AFL are trying to run.

Now that's just my opinion & I put it on here to create a bit of discussion.
That's a good thing, no?
 

Tedeski

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Hardly. I think we behaved with honour.
Yes we did, but if Adelaide, Port, West Coast, Freo, GWS, GC or Brisbane nominated him, we would have matched.
You don't see a problem with that? That's classic manipulation of an outcome in the draft according to the rules at the time.
 

caesar88

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Your rating , have you actually seen the King brothers play ?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
I’ve seen as much of Ben as I have Blakey. To me, King is a little too typical of the kind of talls that usually dominate at U18s level only for that not to translate to AFL level very well. Blakey has more athleticism that should hold him in good stead at the most elite level.

Can’t comment on Max King as haven’t seen enough of him.
 

bedford

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I’ve seen as much of Ben as I have Blakey. To me, King is a little too typical of the kind of talls that usually dominate at U18s level only for that not to translate to AFL level very well. Blakey has more athleticism that should hold him in good stead at the most elite level.

Can’t comment on Max King as haven’t seen enough of him.
You said the Kings , so only comment on 1 then. Max King is a star in the making , but to say Blakey is better is something we won't know about for 5 or so years at the top level .
 

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Heeney2Franklin

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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-28/dunkleys-draft-deal-how-josh-ended-up-at-dogs

"But while Dunkley eventually nominated the Swans as a potential destination via the father-son rule in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft, many were surprised when the club failed to match the Bulldogs' second-round bid for the midfielder.
AFL.com.au can now reveal that rather than going cold on the 189cm midfielder, the Swans had agreed to do what they could to keep him close to his family in Yarram, country Victoria.
While the football world expected the Swans to match any bid that came for the AFL academy graduate, a deal had been struck to try to keep Dunkley in Melbourne to be closer to his family home in Yarram, four hours east of Melbourne.
A recruiter, who wished to remain anonymous and is not affiliated with the Swans or Bulldogs, revealed why the Swans became the first club not to match a bid on a father-son prospect.
"The family was pretty keen to see Josh stay in Melbourne and the Swans understood that," the recruiter said.
"The Swans agreed not to match a bid from a (Victorian) club for him, only if (the bid) came from a side outside Victoria.
"It's fair to say (the Dunkleys) were very happy when Josh ended up at the Dogs."
The Swans denied at the time that they gifted Dunkley to the Bulldogs with pick 25, saying they already had similar players of his type.

Yep! Draft tampering IMO.
Yay is us we give away another potential elite mid because we are to nice.
 

kickthething

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you are kidding, right?
Cause that's worked so well for them in the past getting in guys that don't want to be there.
That’s the point, the GC need to back themselves to be able to create an environment that makes the cost of leaving it higher than it is now. They cannot afford a defeatist attitude worrying about players leaving them in 3 years. There is a lot of work for them to do create that environment and start to wear some big boy pants. If they don’t it is game over. They need to recruit to whatever their need is. They cannot second guess and worry about things that are not within their own control. What is in their control is the environment they choose to create.....drive an hour up the road...there seems to be a good example there.
 

Ralphyboy

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Hi,

Do the NSW Zone rules still apply for Cat B rookies? I'm thinking about Angus Baker, Mitch Maguire and the big ruckman who are currently training with the swans. I imagine Baker could get a cat B as a former swans academy with the 3 year period. The big ruckman and Maguire are not Academy so presumably they would have to be Cat A rookies, unless the NSW zone stuff still applies?
 

robbieando

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Hi,

Do the NSW Zone rules still apply for Cat B rookies? I'm thinking about Angus Baker, Mitch Maguire and the big ruckman who are currently training with the swans. I imagine Baker could get a cat B as a former swans academy with the 3 year period. The big ruckman and Maguire are not Academy so presumably they would have to be Cat A rookies, unless the NSW zone stuff still applies?
The NSW Zone rules still apply. We have two Cat B spots available to pre-draft any NSW selections before the rookie draft.
 

mikey_san

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Hope that Phantom fella is wrong. He's now got us taking two guys who can't stay on the park and two running defenders (to go with the 4/5 young ones we already got).



!
 

mikey_san

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That’s the point, the GC need to back themselves to be able to create an environment that makes the cost of leaving it higher than it is now. They cannot afford a defeatist attitude worrying about players leaving them in 3 years. There is a lot of work for them to do create that environment and start to wear some big boy pants. If they don’t it is game over. They need to recruit to whatever their need is. They cannot second guess and worry about things that are not within their own control. What is in their control is the environment they choose to create.....drive an hour up the road...there seems to be a good example there.
Agree they need to set a culture, but that'll never be done with guys that don't want to be there. You need total buy-in. Get the class draft guys from the bush (or not Melb/Perth) who'll thrive there, mixed with guys aching for a shot at first team footy. That's what will build the culture, certainly not a bunch of kids from Melbourne private schools counting the days till they can leave.
FWIW I think GCS agree w me, hence the recent fire sale.
If necessary trade up/down to get the types that will be more likely to stay. Once they have a winning culture and tradition they might venture back to Melb types.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. I think you might be advocating that solution.

Now watch them pick Smith and King. :p:fire:

Btw anyone see Brodie Grundy's brother play? Only a few big KPD around and he's one. Seems Kosi might go to GC before we get a chance.
 

mikey_san

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