Welcome 2018 draft pick 52: Welcome to Hawthorn Jacob Koschitzke

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[cs61]

Kosi is training as a forward. Jeka a defender. Its where they will succeed or fail

I would think Kosi needs to:

1. Hold more marks
2. Have much more impact on the game and contest when he isnt able to mark

His kicking for goal is great, so it's always a big blow when the ball bounces off his hands when he's in good position, as he only needs 3-4 shots a goal to have a real impact.

 

[Accipiter]

Kosi is training as a forward. Jeka a defender. Its where they will succeed or fail

What do you think Kossie's overriding instincts are: 'as a Fwd' or 'a Back'?

 

[Beandip]

 

[TheFourPillars]

What do you think are Kossie' overriding instincts are: 'as a Fwd' or 'a Back'?

The coaching staff are unconcerned with his instincts and more concerned with him improving his forward craft. He is working really hard to improve and should be raring to go rnd 1. He has all the physical attributes to succeed.

 

[Accipiter]

The coaching staff are unconcerned with his instincts and more concerned with him improving his forward craft. He is working really hard to improve and should be raring to go rnd 1. He has all the physical attributes to succeed.

I am asking for your opinion.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I am asking for your opinion.

Going off training and prior games he is a better forward than defender mate. He is a point of difference from Lewis in the way he plays. Will he succeed as a forward it depends on how much he is able to learn and absorb during preseason. I will say that he will most likely be better than what he was last year. He works hard and plays hard. He is one of the intriguing players going into next season.

 

[I got the outside word]

Needs to learn how to lead at a minimum. Concerning how he stays put when he has acres of space infront of him

Probably needs a team mate that can hit a moving target inside 50 for that. Hopefully all coming to fruition very soon. He is relatively quick I think so getting separation should not be his biggest issue.

 

[Accipiter]

Going off training and prior games he is a better forward than defender mate. He is a point of difference from Lewis in the way he plays. Will he succeed as a forward it depends on how much he is able to learn and absorb during preseason. I will say that he will most likely be better than what he was last year. He works hard and plays hard. He is one of the intriguing players going into next season.

Thank you - allow me to provide context on my question around Kossie’s instincts.

Our fwd line is to be built around Lewis (no brainer).

We have built success in the past around having a hybrid Ruck/Fwd to supplement our no:1 fwd. (think David Hale/ Rob Campbell etc).

After several years of watching it up to Poppy to fly against big backmen I am stoked to see Meek & Lynch battling it out for what appears to be a Fwd/Ruck role. This gives us a 199cm key fwd and a 200cm plus ruckman next to him. The third fwd position would then be tailor made for a Gunston type - ideally a medium fwd with a high fwd IQ that will not impede the big boys, but provide a point-of-difference (2022 buzz-word), and the ability to play on smaller types as well. Other fwd roles are a defensive fwd and a couple of opportunists.

In my mind Kossie is not going to hold down the first two roles. Can we afford a third tall around the 196 mark without the IQ to properly integrate into a fwd system … Not saying it can’t work but am saying that it needs someone with fwd nouse – Hence my question in asking your opinion on where his natural instinct lie.

Personally I don’t see him adding value as a permanent member of the fwd-line. I see his value as more of a utility who could slot into the fwd-line occasionally to stretch the odd defensive structure, or be developed as big backman. I think Weddle could muddy the waters as a utility in that he would likely overtake Kossie in time.

If the club believes his instincts are forward then great, but looking in from a distance I don’t see him as a natural fwd at the elite level.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

My big worry with Kossie is his marking ability (or lack thereof).

I am a big believer that the ability to take a grab is almost entirely an innate skill that can't be taught. All the great marks (Lake, Sicily, etc) just have the inbuilt knack of reading the flight of the ball and the sure hands to take it in one grab.

How many years did we wait in vain for Timmy O to finally start to nail his grabs? I really struggle to think of a player who was a poor mark who ever turned it around?

Kossy has the size and athletic ability but unless he can improve markedly on his marking I struggle to see him making it long term as a key forward.

Mitch Lewis in the other hand is an absolutely sublime mark. Even when he struggled in his first couple of years he could always take a big grab.

 

[cryptor]

If he hasn't been spending the last few months working with Mitch Lewis' "hand specialist" then it's a missed opportunity. Lewis clunks it now like Travis Cloke wearing an illegal grip glove.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Probably needs a team mate that can hit a moving target inside 50 for that. Hopefully all coming to fruition very soon. He is relatively quick I think so getting separation should not be his biggest issue.





Partially true. Issue is at VFL level in a few games box hill dominated, he was stagnant

 

[matey]

My big worry with Kossie is his marking ability (or lack thereof).

I am a big believer that the ability to take a grab is almost entirely an innate skill that can't be taught. All the great marks (Lake, Sicily, etc) just have the inbuilt knack of reading the flight of the ball and the sure hands to take it in one grab.

How many years did we wait in vain for Timmy O to finally start to nail his grabs? I really struggle to think of a player who was a poor mark who ever turned it around?

Kossy has the size and athletic ability but unless he can improve markedly on his marking I struggle to see him making it long term as a key forward.

Mitch Lewis in the other hand is an absolutely sublime mark. Even when he struggled in his first couple of years he could always take a big grab.

Exactly my worry. What ever it is reading the flight of the ball, reflexes or doesn’t have soft hands …….. when he is a nice spot/position just spills it too often. Hoping it’s just adapting to the pace of the game, the opposition pressure at AFL level but once he adjusts and gets use to it will clunk a few more

 

[B&GBlood]

Exactly my worry. What ever it is reading the flight of the ball, reflexes or doesn’t have soft hands …….. when he is a nice spot/position just spills it too often. Hoping it’s just adapting to the pace of the game, the opposition pressure at AFL level but once he adjusts and gets use to it will clunk a few more

Could he need contact lenses?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Exactly my worry. What ever it is reading the flight of the ball, reflexes or doesn’t have soft hands …….. when he is a nice spot/position just spills it too often. Hoping it’s just adapting to the pace of the game, the opposition pressure at AFL level but once he adjusts and gets use to it will clunk a few more

I think being able to take a good contested mark is mostly mental.

You need to focus purely on the ball and be able to zone out/ignore all of the other players/physical contact going on around you.

Watch someone like Sicily or Lewis when they take a grab, they are watching the ball every second on its way to them right until they mark it. Nothing is breaking their focus on taking the mark.

Whereas I always thought that Timmy O just at the point of him marking it would lose his focus which is why he was Tim "almost" O'Brien.

I think it's one of the hardest skills in the game and very few can actually do it well/consistently which is why a player like Lewis is so valuable.

 

[lethalselbow]

Reckon he's tracking nicely.

Jacob Koschitzke

45 goals in first TWO seasons.

Mitch Lewis

47 goals in first FOUR seasons.



Quit your bleating, plebs.

 

[Tomohawks]

It's clear as stated frequently that he's a poor mark, but he does have a lot of good tools which includes the underrated pressure he applies for a bigman. He seems to like it and is quick enough to apply real pressure. He has everything but the hands at this stage. He's my most interesting watch this year as he'll either be a gun player or gone from the list at seasons end for me.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

It's clear as stated frequently that he's a poor mark, but he does have a lot of good tools which includes the underrated pressure he applies for a bigman. He seems to like it and is quick enough to apply real pressure. He has everything but the hands at this stage. He's my most interesting watch this year as he'll either be a gun player or gone from the list at seasons end for me.

Yes I will admit that even with his poor hands Kossy does have an uncanny knack for kicking goals from unconventional avenues for a guy his size.

But I think you are right, if he can't get to at being at least a capable mark then he does face the risk of being delisted.

 

[HappyHawk_1]

It's clear as stated frequently that he's a poor mark, but he does have a lot of good tools which includes the underrated pressure he applies for a bigman. He seems to like it and is quick enough to apply real pressure. He has everything but the hands at this stage. He's my most interesting watch this year as he'll either be a gun player or gone from the list at seasons end for me.

I may have read it incorrectly, but I don’t know if it’s a ‘gun or bust’ season for Kosi.

FWIW, I think the odds are that he doesn’t become a gun and ends up getting delisted in a few years, but I think if he shows genuine improvement in taking a few more marks and kicking a few more goals - that would warrant a spot on the list in 2024.

If it’s true that Jeka, Frost, and Scrimshaw all continue to play defence, we are left with only Kosi, Serong, and the ruckmen as KPF options behind Lewis (noting that we shouldn’t be banking on McCabe to come in and play well in year 1/2024).

*NB, mindful of Sam’s seeming intent for a ‘run and gun’ game style with speed, class, and genuine athletes - I think Kosi’s efforts and athletic attributes make him a good option for Sam if he can make some improvements to his making and kicking.

 

[Peerless Pete]

I think being able to take a good contested mark is mostly mental.

You need to focus purely on the ball and be able to zone out/ignore all of the other players/physical contact going on around you.

Watch someone like Sicily or Lewis when they take a grab, they are watching the ball every second on its way to them right until they mark it. Nothing is breaking their focus on taking the mark.

Whereas I always thought that Timmy O just at the point of him marking it would lose his focus which is why he was Tim "almost" O'Brien.

I think it's one of the hardest skills in the game and very few can actually do it well/consistently which is why a player like Lewis is so valuable.

That's very true. Years ago I remember Johnny Barker taking a really good contested mark under pressure and one commentator said he had strong hands. Kevin Bartlett said he liked to say the player had "strong eyes". Players like Lake and Sicily never look flustered when going for a mark. it's like no one else is around them and they can just focus on the ball. TOB always looked like his marking was a two step process. He jumped at the ball and then thought about actually marking it, which often meant he wasn't in a great position to mark once the ball arrived. Players like Jeremy McGovern launch at the ball in one motion, always having the ball as their focus. I'm not sure it's something you can teach. And I don't think our club has a great recent record of developing good KP players unless they're elite talents like Buddy and Roughy. Shoe was another one who although he could take the odd grab often was easily bustled out of a marking contest with what looked like minimal contact.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Reckon he's tracking nicely.

Jacob Koschitzke

45 goals in first TWO seasons.

Mitch Lewis

47 goals in first FOUR seasons.



Quit your bleating, plebs.

Cherry picking is fun. However - over the seasons you mentioned they played the exact same amount of games, so it's not as if Kosi has had a better strike rate.

Lewis' upside is immense. Kosi has some fine attributes but he won't be one of the best KPFs in the league which is absolutely what Lewis could be should he get a decent run with injuries. Kosi's best season he went for 27 goals in 20 games - Lewis' best season had him kick 37 over 15 games.

 

[lethalselbow]

Cherry picking is fun. However - over the seasons you mentioned they played the exact same amount of games, so it's not as if Kosi has had a better strike rate.

Lewis' upside is immense. Kosi has some fine attributes but he won't be one of the best KPFs in the league which is absolutely what Lewis could be should he get a decent run with injuries. Kosi's best season he went for 27 goals in 20 games - Lewis' best season had him kick 37 over 15 games.

Kosi played multiple positions. Forward and Ruck.

Lewis played multiple positions. Forward and re-hab.

Lewis had a cracking 5th year in the AFL.
Kosi's 3rd season may be pretty decent. Still younger and tougher than the other guy.


I must admit it was great that Lewis managed to have a big bag of 5 goals in his 5th season. Everyone was waiting a hell of a long time for the guy to make any real impact, except in the medical room. Pretty sure Kozi did it early in his first season.

As for Lewis' "immense" upside and Kosi's "average" upside. We'll see, oh wondrous gem of all AFL future knowledge.

And please don't give us the would've could've should've injury stuff. Not good enough to get repeatedly injured. If you ain't on the park, you ain't getting the footy!

Go Kozi!

 

[KermitJagger]

Kosi played multiple positions. Forward and Ruck.

Lewis played multiple positions. Forward and re-hab.

Lewis had a cracking 5th year in the AFL.
Kosi's 3rd season may be pretty decent. Still younger and tougher than the other guy.


I must admit it was great that Lewis managed to have a big bag of 5 goals in his 5th season. Everyone was waiting a hell of a long time for the guy to make any real impact, except in the medical room. Pretty sure Kozi did it early in his first season.

As for Lewis' "immense" upside and Kosi's "average" upside. We'll see, oh wondrous gem of all AFL future knowledge.

And please don't give us the would've could've should've injury stuff. Not good enough to get repeatedly injured. If you ain't on the park, you ain't getting the footy!

Go Kozi!

Kosi kicked 5 goals in his third season, not his first. This season will be his 5th.

In pretty much every quality you want from a key forward, Lewis is the better player. That's the reason why when the rucks went down we threw Kosi in the ruck and not Lewis, and also why Kosi had been dropped for multiple games and Lewis was not. It wasn't because Kosi was the more versatile player, just the more expendable from the forward line.

I agree that Lewis needs to find some way to stay on the park, but Kosi needs a lot more to go right for him to make it as an AFL key forward in a good side than Lewis does.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Kosi needs to find some forward craft, pretty quickly.

 

[kenneje]

On paper, I like the forward line structure as Lewis + Breust + resting ruckman + 3 smalls.

I'd much prefer to play Brockman/Greene/Butler and a second ruckman than Kosi.

HF: Moore - Lewis - Wingard
FF: Breust - Meek - Brockman/Butler/Greene

 

[Slainte]

On paper, I like the forward line structure as Lewis + Breust + resting ruckman + 3 smalls.

I'd much prefer to play Brockman/Greene/Butler and a second ruckman than Kosi.

HF: Moore - Lewis - Wingard
FF: Breust - Meek - Brockman/Butler/Greene

Breust is a small forward so you have Lewis, resting ruck and four smalls unless you play Greene, Serong or maybe Weddle who can take the third tall position.