List Mgmt. 2018 Draft thread.

[Knightmare]

Regarding the Pies first pick. The two names I have circled around where Collingwood may be picking are Riley Collier-Dawkins and Curtis Taylor. They both have star potential and can be your Marcus Bontempelli/Robbie Gray equivalents.

If you want to dream, Jack Lukosius I've been very open about being the best prospect I've ever seen. I bring him up in this weeks weekly wrap (see signature). Otherwise if you want to read about Collier-Dawkins and Taylor, you can find the links on page one in my Draft Almanac thread.

For a lesser known. One that got me excited this weekend is Thomas Sparrow who I give a fair writeup to in this weeks weekly wrap. Has that hint of Dangerfield, reminding me a bit of Ben Ronke as a junior.

 

[El cane]

I read somewhere Ian Hill is a cousin of the freo brothers and nephew of Neon Leon Davis. We could do with a small electric fast roving mercurial type.

 

[El cane]

Also Garlett doesn’t seem to be getting a Dees game this year. Cheap target now that McDonald re-signed.

 

[Knightmare]

I read somewhere Ian Hill is a cousin of the freo brothers and nephew of Neon Leon Davis. We could do with a small electric fast roving mercurial type.

That's correct.

Hill has talent. Has the speed/agility and like Rankine runs around guys like they're traffic cones.

That said, in the case of Hill, he's one I'm inclined to pass on being too small, someone who doesn't go in and win his own ball and has not shown any meaningful progress over the past 12 months. They're all alarm bells for mine and he's one I've cooled on. I can't justify using certainly a first round selection on Hill. Maybe if he falls into the second or third round might I think he could be considered.

Also Garlett doesn’t seem to be getting a Dees game this year. Cheap target now that McDonald re-signed.

Garlett as a short term loan is one I like.

I wanted him when Carlton decided he wasn't part of their long term plans, and I'd be more than happy to take him again this time around.

He has his up/down seasons, but he still has his speed and is still every second season good for 40+ goals and 70+ tackles which are great numbers by position.

An ideal list fit as that speedy ground level forward to compliment the marking smalls.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

That's correct.

Hill has talent. Has the speed/agility and like Rankine runs around guys like they're traffic cones.

That said, in the case of Hill, he's one I'm inclined to pass on being too small, someone who doesn't go in and win his own ball and has not shown any meaningful progress over the past 12 months. They're all alarm bells for mine and he's one I've cooled on. I can't justify using certainly a first round selection on Hill. Maybe if he falls into the second or third round might I think he could be considered.



Garlett as a short term loan is one I like.

I wanted him when Carlton decided he wasn't part of their long term plans, and I'd be more than happy to take him again this time around.

He has his up/down seasons, but he still has his speed and is still every second season good for 40+ goals and 70+ tackles which are great numbers by position.

An ideal list fit as that speedy ground level forward to compliment the marking smalls.

Wow. Surprised you wouldn’t spend a first round on Hill. If he is at our pick, I hope we pick him!! Think he’s a gun. Imo, He’s Daniel Wells Clone.

 

[Knightmare]

As a quick offseason plan.

My premature thoughts are to get:
Cameron Pedersen (likely to be a delisted free agent at seasons end). He can be your ruckman if Grundy gets hurt (he'll rack it up like Stefan Martin around the ground) or can play as a key forward/relieving ruckman. He's had 21 marks (seven contested) and 10 goals combining his totals from his past two VFL matches.

Sam Collins (use a late/rookie pick - whatever is required) to sign Sam Collins (ex Docker) from Werribee. Mature age key defender who has 60 marks from his past five games.

--
For bigger targets. If the salary cap space is there and Moore and De Goey for whatever reason want out Tom McDonald is the key forward if you ask me today that I'd want. He's averaging higher goals, disposals, marks and tackles per game numbers and will probably come at nearing half the price.

--
Through the draft, Lukosius is the dream. And if Moore and De Goey walk, if there is a way to move up to him, you do it. He's worth De Goey or Moore along with a first and a second round choice and I'd agree to the trade assuming a mid-table or better finish.

Otherwise I'd be satisfied with Collier-Dawkins or Curtis Taylor through the draft. They're both serious talents in their own right with huge scope to develop.

 

[Soups]

As a quick offseason plan.

My premature thoughts are to get:
Cameron Pedersen (likely to be a delisted free agent at seasons end). He can be your ruckman if Grundy gets hurt (he'll rack it up like Stefan Martin around the ground) or can play as a key forward/relieving ruckman. He's had 21 marks (seven contested) and 10 goals combining his totals from his past two VFL matches.

Sam Collins (use a late/rookie pick - whatever is required) to sign Sam Collins (ex Docker) from Werribee. Mature age key defender who has 60 marks from his past five games.

--
For bigger targets. If the salary cap space is there and Moore and De Goey for whatever reason want out Tom McDonald is the key forward if you ask me today that I'd want. He's averaging higher goals, disposals, marks and tackles per game numbers and will probably come at nearing half the price.

--
Through the draft, Lukosius is the dream. And if Moore and De Goey walk, if there is a way to move up to him, you do it. He's worth De Goey or Moore along with a first and a second round choice and I'd agree to the trade assuming a mid-table or better finish.

Otherwise I'd be satisfied with Collier-Dawkins or Curtis Taylor through the draft. They're both serious talents in their own right with huge scope to develop.

McDonald signed a couple days ago.

Is there a tall that you like that may go a bit later in the draft?

 

[Knightmare]

Wow. Surprised you wouldn’t spend a first round on Hill. If he is at our pick, I hope we pick him!! Think he’s a gun. Imo, He’s Daniel Wells Clone.

Hill is no Daniel Wells.

174cm, only averaging 21.5 disposals in the WAFL colts (a lower in standard compared to the TAC Cup) - those numbers would equate to around 16 disposals in the TAC Cup. He's also very outside. Only four of his 13 possessions were contested in WA's big loss to SA.

He has the speed and skills. But Hill is no Daniel Wells, being 6/7cm shorter and lacking the contested ball winning - which Wells can do to a good standard.

Hill is more like a shorter Jason Johannisen if you wanted a more realistic comparison.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Hill is no Daniel Wells.

174cm, only averaging 21.5 disposals in the WAFL colts (a lower in standard compared to the TAC Cup) - those numbers would equate to around 16 disposals in the TAC Cup. He's also very outside. Only four of his 13 possessions were contested in WA's big loss to SA.

He has the speed and skills. But Hill is no Daniel Wells, being 6/7cm shorter and lacking the contested ball winning - which Wells can do to a good standard.

Hill is more like a shorter Jason Johannisen if you wanted a more realistic comparison.

I’ll take your word for it!

 

[Knightmare]

McDonald signed a couple days ago.

Is there a tall that you like that may go a bit later in the draft?

The loss of the other 17 sides.

As for the draft.

The good KPPs always go early.

Max and Ben King are two you'd love to have fall into your lap, but they probably go around pick 4/5.

Nick Blakey is great, but he'll join Sydney through their Academy and probably a top-10 choice.

Later on, Bailey Williams, while I view him more as a ruckman, he's a super athlete and really times his leads very well as a forward - but he'll drop marks overhead, chest marks. So I see him dropping and don't certainly as a KPP hold him in as high esteme.

Unfashionable and suboptimal. But Hudson Garoni as your hulking strong, physically developed, marking forward is one late/rookie who could be there and has the performances on the board. He has kicked 23 goals from his 6 games and has kicked bags of 7 and 8.

One the Vic Country selectors have missed who also is in my view draftable is Corey Ellison. He'd be the strongest mark in this draft and is on the shorter side at 191cm, 88kg. But he's developed and could be something like a Tim Membrey if things went right. Can probably get him late in the rookie draft.

But really, as usual, it's a case of if you don't have that top 10 pick, you're not getting that long term key forward solution, just a selection of a few who probably can become serviceable but are lowish probability of making the grade.

 

[Apex36]

As a quick offseason plan.

My premature thoughts are to get:
Cameron Pedersen (likely to be a delisted free agent at seasons end). He can be your ruckman if Grundy gets hurt (he'll rack it up like Stefan Martin around the ground) or can play as a key forward/relieving ruckman. He's had 21 marks (seven contested) and 10 goals combining his totals from his past two VFL matches.

Sam Collins (use a late/rookie pick - whatever is required) to sign Sam Collins (ex Docker) from Werribee. Mature age key defender who has 60 marks from his past five games.

--
For bigger targets. If the salary cap space is there and Moore and De Goey for whatever reason want out Tom McDonald is the key forward if you ask me today that I'd want. He's averaging higher goals, disposals, marks and tackles per game numbers and will probably come at nearing half the price.

--
Through the draft, Lukosius is the dream. And if Moore and De Goey walk, if there is a way to move up to him, you do it. He's worth De Goey or Moore along with a first and a second round choice and I'd agree to the trade assuming a mid-table or better finish.

Otherwise I'd be satisfied with Collier-Dawkins or Curtis Taylor through the draft. They're both serious talents in their own right with huge scope to develop.

Tom McDonald has already re-signed with Melbourne.

 

[adammania9]

I really hope we target some mature-age players to top up for a tilt at the cup. Use your first 2/3 picks on 18 year olds - sure, but the depth for 20-24 year olds at the moment is seriously good. I’m very keen on Haiden Schloithe as a defensive small forward; he’s been dominating the WAFL for a few years now. Tyler Kietel is 22 and has been named in the WAFL team of the year the last two seasons, once at full forward and once at full back; he’s seriously good.

For AFL, Jeff Garlett is certainly one I’d look at poaching especially if Elliott’s future is bleak.

 

[Knightmare]

Tom McDonald has already re-signed with Melbourne.

Shows how absorbed I was, watching the SA v WA game until 11:30pm last night after work.

As I said above, it's the loss of the other 17 clubs.

 

[Soups]

I really hope we target some mature-age players to top up for a tilt at the cup. Use your first 2/3 picks on 18 year olds - sure, but the depth for 20-24 year olds at the moment is seriously good. I’m very keen on Haiden Schloithe as a defensive small forward; he’s been dominating the WAFL for a few years now. Tyler Kietel is 22 and has been named in the WAFL team of the year the last two seasons, once at full forward and once at full back; he’s seriously good.

For AFL, Jeff Garlett is certainly one I’d look at poaching especially if Elliott’s future is bleak.

Marlion Pickett in the WAFL has been described as the Tim Kelly for this year. Don’t know much about his past, could have been in trouble with the law.

 

[Knightmare]

I really hope we target some mature-age players to top up for a tilt at the cup. Use your first 2/3 picks on 18 year olds - sure, but the depth for 20-24 year olds at the moment is seriously good. I’m very keen on Haiden Schloithe as a defensive small forward; he’s been dominating the WAFL for a few years now. Tyler Kietel is 22 and has been named in the WAFL team of the year the last two seasons, once at full forward and once at full back; he’s seriously good.

For AFL, Jeff Garlett is certainly one I’d look at poaching especially if Elliott’s future is bleak.

Schloithe last year was probably the best outside the AFL. He was more dominant than Tim Kelly even, though Kelly over the offseason to his credit has put in the work and improved further.

There are always good mature agers. It's where to look if you have immediate list needs you need filled pronto.

I'd set the challenge to fans to create your ultimate 22 of players outside the AFL - combining VFL, SANFL, WAFL and NEAFL talent. There is probably enough if you picked the right players to win 7/8 AFL games. Keitel is one who would be in the mix, but not necessarily clearly in.

For those who don't know many of the names, you can find your VFL/SANFL/WAFL/NEAFL teams of the year online and use that as a starting point.

 

[Pie 4 Life]

The loss of the other 17 sides.

As for the draft.

The good KPPs always go early.

Max and Ben King are two you'd love to have fall into your lap, but they probably go around pick 4/5.

Nick Blakey is great, but he'll join Sydney through their Academy and probably a top-10 choice.

Later on, Bailey Williams, while I view him more as a ruckman, he's a super athlete and really times his leads very well as a forward - but he'll drop marks overhead, chest marks. So I see him dropping and don't certainly as a KPP hold him in as high esteme.

Unfashionable and suboptimal. But Hudson Garoni as your hulking strong, physically developed, marking forward is one late/rookie who could be there and has the performances on the board. He has kicked 23 goals from his 6 games and has kicked bags of 7 and 8.

One the Vic Country selectors have missed who also is in my view draftable is Corey Ellison. He'd be the strongest mark in this draft and is on the shorter side at 191cm, 88kg. But he's developed and could be something like a Tim Membrey if things went right. Can probably get him late in the rookie draft.

But really, as usual, it's a case of if you don't have that top 10 pick, you're not getting that long term key forward solution, just a selection of a few who probably can become serviceable but are lowish probability of making the grade.

Issue with Garoni is he's the least athletic of the I guess you'd say "draftable" key position forwards, and those bags of goals have come against undersized defenders. Against the Rebels for example, he played on a 184cm and 186cm defender, giving him about a 9-11cm advantage along with a 12kg weight advantage. If he didn't kick 6-7 goals with the amount of inside 50s the Bushrangers can get at times through their clearance-driven midfield, there would be issues.

As you pointed out, neither the Kings not Blakey will be there at our pick (unless we fall off the face of the planet). I'd rather take one late as a rookie and punt on them as you've alluded to with the example of Ellison. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't go KPF this draft and pick up an established one, or keep Reid forward and keep the experiment with Mihocek.

He's not KPP, but one I like as that half-forward role and is a good size for that medium tall, could push onto a wing is Charlie Sprague. What are your thoughts on him?

 

[Knightmare]

Marlon Pickett in the WAFL has been described as the Tim Kelly for this year. Don’t know much about his past, could have been in trouble with the law.

Marlion Pickett has done jail time.

But then again, so has Andrew Krakouer.

Pickett has matured individually and doesn't sound like a problem guy from the impression I have received since his release.

He has been in sensational form in the WAFL to start the season. Has really kicked things up a gear. Has slick skills and speed. Well suited to playing half-back or wing.

 

[Knightmare]

Issue with Garoni is he's the least athletic of the I guess you'd say "draftable" key position forwards, and those bags of goals have come against undersized defenders. Against the Rebels for example, he played on a 184cm and 186cm defender, giving him about a 9-11cm advantage along with a 12kg weight advantage. If he didn't kick 6-7 goals with the amount of inside 50s the Bushrangers can get at times through their clearance-driven midfield, there would be issues.

As you pointed out, neither the Kings not Blakey will be there at our pick (unless we fall off the face of the planet). I'd rather take one late as a rookie and punt on them as you've alluded to with the example of Ellison. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't go KPF this draft and pick up an established one, or keep Reid forward and keep the experiment with Mihocek.

He's not KPP, but one I like as that half-forward role and is a good size for that medium tall, could push onto a wing is Charlie Sprague. What are your thoughts on him?

You said it more explicitly, but that's correct re. Garoni and that's why I'm not talking him up.

I wouldn't be surprised either if Collingwood again don't go tall, and frankly in the modern game, I don't see it as a necessity when you can play the likes of Caddy/De Goey deep as medium sizers, in the way we once played Medhurst as a small deep - when you can win you're 1v1s, it doesn't matter if you're tall or small.

If you want to be a key forward today, you sort of have to be Jack Lukosius and work all the way up the field and take numerous grabs and work hard pushing forward again to then provide any option.

Mihocek as a forward I don't think will last as he's an unimpressive athlete (would love to be wrong though - and I'm open to the experiment on the off-chance it does work). Down back though I give him a chance though.

As for Sprague. He's draftable. Capable as a forward or mid. Good height, good ground ball winner, hits the scoreboard. I'll be interested to see what he does during the u18 champs and in the back end of the year once finished with school footy, but I can see him going mid-late draft.

 

[No SPIN]

KM - can you tell us your thoughts on how tall fwds can be “truly” assesed given the modified rules in the TAC comp.

Can we really expect Lukosius and the Kings to dominate in the real game when they have been “cuddled” by the modified rules.
McCartin is a clear example of what I fear - a superstar at TAC level that seems unlikely to reach his expected potential in the AFL.
I’m starting to think talls who excel in other parts of the ground other than the fwd line, may offer far better exposed form in deciding whether they’ll make it in the AFL.

 

[debra17]

KM - can you tell us your thoughts on how tall fwds can be “truly” assesed given the modified rules in the TAC comp.

Can we really expect Lukosius and the Kings to dominate in the real game when they have been “cuddled” by the modified rules.
McCartin is a clear example of what I fear - a superstar at TAC level that seems unlikely to reach his expected potential in the AFL.
I’m starting to think talls who excel in other parts of the ground other than the fwd line, may offer far better exposed form in deciding whether they’ll make it in the AFL.

Well lukosius is playing senior football for Woodville west Torrens in the SANFL against men, no modified rules there and he is certainly holding his own


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[No SPIN]

Well lukosius is playing senior football for Woodville west Torrens in the SANFL against men, no modified rules there and he is certainly holding his own


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not aware that he is dominating there like TAC representative comp.
But my point remains generally about these young talls - I fear they are being lulled into false sense of security, overated with modified rules.

 

[Apex36]

KM - can you tell us your thoughts on how tall fwds can be “truly” assesed given the modified rules in the TAC comp.

Can we really expect Lukosius and the Kings to dominate in the real game when they have been “cuddled” by the modified rules.
McCartin is a clear example of what I fear - a superstar at TAC level that seems unlikely to reach his expected potential in the AFL.
I’m starting to think talls who excel in other parts of the ground other than the fwd line, may offer far better exposed form in deciding whether they’ll make it in the AFL.

Lukosious is not playing under modified rules. He’s playing senior SANFL footy and performing to a high standard against bigger bodied men. He’s been ‘cuddled’ by nothing.

 

[BEEG]

Realistically GC finish bottom 3 would Gold Coast let him walk for a pick passed on by the AFL or do an Adelaide and make a club pay like Danger.

Lynch FA
Sloane FA

Elliot full season fit

Trade Moore, Fasolo and go into 2019 draft with 2 late first round picks dead set lock us in to win it all and you'll never hear me say something like that again.

 

[Quicky]

I’m not aware that he is dominating there like TAC representative comp.
But my point remains generally about these young talls - I fear they are being lulled into false sense of security, overated with modified rules.

I tend to agree but I reckon you've used the wrong player to illustrate the point. I also don't think it's a hard and fast rule either. There'll be keys that adapt just fine but recruiters probably need to be a bit cautious about it. I reckon there are some guys like your Bontempelli's and Petracca's that would be gun CHF's if given the role and who didn't get recruited in that role as juniors. But they were still highly regarded. I don't think cheapies are easy to come by in that position.

 

[loki04]

Hill is no Daniel Wells.

174cm, only averaging 21.5 disposals in the WAFL colts (a lower in standard compared to the TAC Cup) - those numbers would equate to around 16 disposals in the TAC Cup. He's also very outside. Only four of his 13 possessions were contested in WA's big loss to SA.

He has the speed and skills. But Hill is no Daniel Wells, being 6/7cm shorter and lacking the contested ball winning - which Wells can do to a good standard.

Hill is more like a shorter Jason Johannisen if you wanted a more realistic comparison.

Wells was equally outside at the start, Hill might be shorter but his leap makes up for it, WAFL colts vs TAC possie reduction is guess work and further you don't know how he would perform in a higher tier, it certainly didn't hinder him vs those players in last years champs where he made them look silly at times. Can't read much in SA vs WA game when his entire team was trounced.

He has "Wells" ground level movement, deftness, agility, leap, ball use and vision. Wells like is apt comparison without being clone. Nothing like Jason Johanison imo.