2018 Draft thread

[WhiteLionFeva]

Interesting thought - I was thinking about how 30+35 may get us one pick plus McFadyen. Wouldn't surprise me to see them packaged up for one up, one down. Get an earlier pick for someone we like, and then have a later one for points matching.

GWS hold 19, 25, 52.

I thought it could be 30+35 for 25+52. But given the pushback of picks, possible we've got higher aims?

19 + 52 will be around 22 + 50.
30 + 35 will be around 33 + 38.

Probably doesn't work out for picks, but could be the club do something like 30+35+2019R3 for 19+52 if they like someone like Ely Smith, and think another club could take him before our next pick.

Then we'd have 18, 19, and picks for McFadyen and others (Berry, Answerth, Coleman et al).

Interesting surely but the question in each scenario is what is in it for the other club? Do GWS need to do a swap? Why would they give up their first pick just to gain two second rounders. Maybe if we offered a future pick but still a big call given this is meant to be a strong draft. The only clubs I can see doing that are clubs that need more points but are there any in that category?

 

[Fatcat08]

If you don’t think spotthedogs post was irrational and emotionally driven then you clearly spend way too much time on this forum.

We’re worried because this draft might make Keays, Matho and CLyons surplus to requirements?

Never heard of anything more ridiculous.

I tend to think the way people interpret the emotions behind a post is much more a reflection on them, than it is the person making it. I mean, you really have no basis for knowing that it was emotionally driven or not bar your own personal feelings on the matter.

 

[spotthedog1]

Interesting surely but the question in each scenario is what is in it for the other club? Do GWS need to do a swap? Why would they give up their first pick just to gain two second rounders. Maybe if we offered a future pick but still a big call given this is meant to be a strong draft. The only clubs I can see doing that are clubs that need more points but are there any in that category?

Agree. GWS would have to see benefit. But you never really know who they rate and where they think they can get them. GWS have Briggs coming through for a bid, so also depends where they expect a bid to come through.

I usually look at the points to judge fairness (with the club moving up usually paying about 10-20% extra), and that's why I added that we may have to chuck in some more points in a future pick, which would also be valuable to GWS.

It all really depends on where the club see a bid for McFadyen coming though. 30+McFadyen (with a pick pushed back to the 70s) is worse than 25+McFadyen though, or worse still - if they expect a bid just before 30, we could end up with 25+McFadyen vs McFadyen+35. I'm sure the club have their feelers out though and are considering their options.

 

[Fatcat08]

Interesting surely but the question in each scenario is what is in it for the other club? Do GWS need to do a swap? Why would they give up their first pick just to gain two second rounders. Maybe if we offered a future pick but still a big call given this is meant to be a strong draft. The only clubs I can see doing that are clubs that need more points but are there any in that category?

Would seem counter intuitive unless you gave them something they could use next year for a points neutral outcome if they expect their academy ruckman to be bid on earlier than pick 19 or 25.

 

[carnthemlions]

Who's going to be the first to crack under the pressure of live trades? Even though it's not as high stakes as other sports with drafts where high picks are worth an obscene amount and jobs depend entirely on getting the right player, surely someone's going to go a little crazy. Personally I hope Silvagni's been watching Draft Day in preparation and royally ****s it up somehow.

 

[jackess]

I tend to think the way people interpret the emotions behind a post is much more a reflection on them, than it is the person making it. I mean, you really have no basis for knowing that it was emotionally driven or not bar your own personal feelings on the matter.

Mostly the lack of facts as you like in the post. Our list getting slower because we lost Beams, Mayes, Dawson, Bell, Bewick and Paparone?

Neale and Madden are quick especially the latter. Smith, Berry and McFadyen all sound reasonably quick too. We already have Cameron, Cutler, Zorko and Bailey in our best 22 who are very quick and others like Taylor, NRobbo, Berry, Bundy and Clug who are reasonably quick.

A quick half back would add something to our side but we have options (Bundy, Bailey and Cutler) and drafting someone who in a few years time might be reasonable won’t completely later the outlook I have for the club.

I don’t think anyone would disagree with the advice to not get emotionally invested in the outcome of the draft until after the draft.

 

[jackess]

Who's going to be the first to crack under the pressure of live trades? Even though it's not as high stakes as other sports with drafts where high picks are worth an obscene amount and jobs depend entirely on getting the right player, surely someone's going to go a little crazy. Personally I hope Silvagni's been watching Draft Day in preparation and royally ****s it up somehow.

He’ll probably offer their 2020 first for every GWS pick in 5hus years draft just to save doing it later.

 

[jackess]

Mostly the lack of facts as you like in the post. Our list getting slower because we lost Beams, Mayes, Dawson, Bell, Bewick and Paparone?

Neale and Madden are quick especially the latter. Smith, Berry and McFadyen all sound reasonably quick too. We already have Cameron, Cutler, Zorko and Bailey in our best 22 who are very quick and others like Taylor, NRobbo, Berry, Bundy and Clug who are reasonably quick.

A quick half back would add something to our side but we have options (Bundy, Bailey and Cutler) and drafting someone who in a few years time might be reasonable won’t completely later the outlook I have for the club.

I don’t think anyone would disagree with the advice to not get emotionally invested in the outcome of the draft until after the draft.

Allison too who might develop into someone like Isaac Smith. If we keep him.

 

[Len S]

All good mate.

Bit harsh on Ely Smith, he runs the 20m sprint in three seconds, so he's not "slow", and is capable of that burst we see with some players. My knock on him earlier in the year was him trying to play more outside, and while he does not have that much of an influence out there, he has the traits he could if you so desire, but it would be ability more so than speed that would stop him from developing outside game. Like Sturt, I just would play him inside because of his clean hands, movement through a stoppage and bigger body.

Likewise with Berry having "some speed", he is just about as elite as they come with both acceleration and agility. His endurance is pretty good as well, but his acceleration and agility - he'd go close to winning both those events if he'd tested at full fitness. The reason Berry is better suited to the inside is because of his kicking and decision making, and another reason why he drops down far. If you can clean up his kicking, he can play outside, but more so he can play half-forward because he can launch a ball.

Taylor could go inside or outside, I actually see him more of an outside midfielder without the explosive speed of a Rayner, but he's certainly more of a forward.

So while you're correct in saying the players are inside-leaning, and certainly with Smith and Berry being proper inside mids, both actually have very good and elite speed between them so you're not getting a bunch of one-paced players in that sense. McFadyen even possesses terrific agility and good speed, he just doesn't use it which is what can happen. I was shocked to see how well he tested pre-season, but that's good from your perspective as if you can start harnessing his speed and agility to put to better use in a game, he can be even better.

Chances are Smith is probably gone by your pick now he has a late invite to the draft, and yeah it might be a touch too much inside happening there, but mostly the point I'll just raise there is, they are certainly not "slow" inside midfielders.

Smith has great acceleration, its the first 5 metres that counts,and he has great power, with that comes his ability to break clear .You are way off the mark on this one.

 

[Len S]

Cherny reckons Valente at our first

Others preferred.

 

[spotthedog1]

Mostly the lack of facts as you like in the post. Our list getting slower because we lost Beams, Mayes, Dawson, Bell, Bewick and Paparone?

Neale and Madden are quick especially the latter. Smith, Berry and McFadyen all sound reasonably quick too. We already have Cameron, Cutler, Zorko and Bailey in our best 22 who are very quick and others like Taylor, NRobbo, Berry, Bundy and Clug who are reasonably quick.

A quick half back would add something to our side but we have options (Bundy, Bailey and Cutler) and drafting someone who in a few years time might be reasonable won’t completely later the outlook I have for the club.

I don’t think anyone would disagree with the advice to not get emotionally invested in the outcome of the draft until after the draft.

You've read a lot into my posts. Safe to say that wasn't what I was referring to.

I can assure you, I wasn't raging at the club and demanding their heads.

Can we simply call it a miscommunication and move on? Much more interesting things to talk about than perceptions of emotional state over the internet.

 

[Fatcat08]

Smith has great acceleration, its the first 5 metres that counts,and he has great power, with that comes his ability to break clear .You are way off the mark on this one.

I'm a little confused, quote the wrong post?

 

[jackess]

You've read a lot into my posts. Safe to say that wasn't what I was referring to.

I can assure you, I wasn't raging at the club and demanding their heads.

Can we simply call it a miscommunication and move on? Much more interesting things to talk about than perceptions of emotional state over the internet.

Yeah no worries.

But wider discussion. Yeah a speedy half back of Witherdens quality would be a huge get. Overall while we don’t have a plethora of very quick players we’re not in a dyer situation.

I’d still put a big bodied mid who can burst out of the pack (Dangerfield, Fyfe, Judd, Martin, etc.) as the most valuable non-tall you can have on your list. Sounds like Smith is that sort of footballer.

I preferred Duursma as possibly a safer option but it sounds like Smith and Sturt have more upside with Valente is another safer option.

 

[spotthedog1]

I'm a little confused, quote the wrong post?

Think he meant to quote mine. Yesterday I said that I'd heard Smith was slow (while admitting that I'd never seen him play beyond youtube highlights), and Pie 4 Life corrected my thinking.

 

[Len S]

A few posts about what noble has said in past interviews about outside run and half back run which is totally true but that was only some of the interview particularly the one on sen 1116 after trade period where he also mentions going to draft and adding to the midfield with another contested player or maybe 2 depending obviously what's available.

Pointless taking half backs for the sake of it,if the quality ie not there...there are no Witherdons,or even Coxs in the top echelon this time,but great depth in mids,therefore Answorth is a good choice later on,referring back a year.

 

[spotthedog1]

Yeah no worries.

But wider discussion. Yeah a speedy half back of Witherdens quality would be a huge get. Overall while we don’t have a plethora of very quick players we’re not in a dyer situation.

I’d still put a big bodied mid who can burst out of the pack (Dangerfield, Fyfe, Judd, Martin, etc.) as the most valuable non-tall you can have on your list. Sounds like Smith is that sort of footballer.

I preferred Duursma as possibly a safer option but it sounds like Smith and Sturt have more upside with Valente is another safer option.

I'm probably a bit against the grain on the half-backs. I think we're alright there, but another one wouldn't hurt.

I think Duursma would be a great pick for us. And I'm an admitted Sturt fanboy (though I don't think he fits our needs, I just think he has so much upside that he'd be a great get for the club).

Still a complete novice though, and my impressions are based solely on youtube, so... you know...

 

[Len S]

I'm a little confused, quote the wrong post?

Was referring to the Collingwood guy's posts mate,sorry if I mistakenly crossed the lines.

 

[jackess]

I'm probably a bit against the grain on the half-backs. I think we're alright there, but another one wouldn't hurt.

I think Duursma would be a great pick for us. And I'm an admitted Sturt fanboy (though I don't think he fits our needs, I just think he has so much upside that he'd be a great get for the club).

Still a complete novice though, and my impressions are based solely on youtube, so... you know...

I think so as well but one that breaks the line would be handy. NRobbo can do this but might be better in a lock down role. Cox or Allison might develop but it’s hard to be too confident. Maybe Madden too.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think the half-back thing might be a bit of a furphy. We primarily want someone with genuine pace. Might play HBF, wing, backpocket, HFF, forward pocket, off the bench. It is one reason I would like McHenry. He has that pace and aggression in spades and would warrant our first pick on merit whereas some others who have the required pace might not.

 

[Fatcat08]

Mostly the lack of facts as you like in the post. Our list getting slower because we lost Beams, Mayes, Dawson, Bell, Bewick and Paparone?

Neale and Madden are quick especially the latter. Smith, Berry and McFadyen all sound reasonably quick too. We already have Cameron, Cutler, Zorko and Bailey in our best 22 who are very quick and others like Taylor, NRobbo, Berry, Bundy and Clug who are reasonably quick.

A quick half back would add something to our side but we have options (Bundy, Bailey and Cutler) and drafting someone who in a few years time might be reasonable won’t completely later the outlook I have for the club.

I don’t think anyone would disagree with the advice to not get emotionally invested in the outcome of the draft until after the draft.

All of that is fair enough and FWIW I agree with it. It would have been an excellent reply to the original post, certainly more constructive and helpful than the one provided. People think differently and sometimes the above that you have thought about may not have been fully considered by someone else when they were formulating their ideas.

What I don't mind about all of Smith, Berry and McFadyen is that they all have very good explosive attributes, they are all reasonably quick and agile with good power and decent vertical leaps, add into that the fact that they all have the ability to win contested ball and there's certainly more to work with than just people associate with "inside mid". When people hear the label inside mid, they don't think naturally of those traits as well as the word one dimensional comes to mind, so it does require a bit of a deeper look. McFadyen has shown a decent ability in that mid forward role which helps, he and rayner being able to rotate through that role and the midfield is an option. Berry maybe not adapting to that half back role great this year would be a bit of a concern, and from my understanding Smith has been almost exclusively a mid, so perhaps a lack of another role may be a negative for those two. Still I think an improvement in our contested ball and an improve in the speed and quality of our distribution makes us look a lot faster than just a guy who runs quickly. It gives the guys confidence to get on the move quicker and that means play happens a lot faster.

As you mention we have other guys who can play different roles, and by the time these guys are contributing regularly Zorko will most likely not be a full time mid and perhaps someone like Neale will also be ready to spend more time in different positions. I'd probably like another small forward with pace and pressure which would allow Charlie to get up the ground more and use his pace further up the field along with his kicking inside 50 so if we could add someone there that would be a positive.

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Smith has great acceleration, its the first 5 metres that counts,and he has great power, with that comes his ability to break clear .You are way off the mark on this one.

Huh? I said he isn’t slow and runs the 20m sprint in 3 seconds?

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Huh? I said he isn’t slow and runs the 20m sprint in 3 seconds?

Yeah, you did, he got his posts confused.

 

[ULittleBeauty]

If Port take Duursma I like the look of Sturt. From the footage be reminds me of Breust , though he is slightly taller, which I think would add something. Wooller and McFadyen are probably reasonably similar types but I would be attracted to his likely higher ceiling than Smith. Plus we have bolstered our clearance mids with Neale and Lyons.


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[David C]

I won't be surprised if Allison is drafted by another club late in the National Draft. *cough* Geelong *cough*.


There are a few clubs who are committed to drafting academy or father son kids with multiple later picks. These clubs are going to have quite a few picks shuffled to the back end of the draft. They might be looking at some of the delisted, mature age, and 19 year old TAC cup players with these picks.

Wouldn't Allison have to nominate for the draft to be picked up? Wouldn't of thought he'd do that if the lions have committed to take him in the rookie draft.

 

[Fatcat08]

Wouldn't Allison have to nominate for the draft to be picked up? Wouldn't of thought he'd do that if the lions have committed to take him in the rookie draft.

You have to nominate for the draft to go into the rookie draft. Pre season draft was the one that you could nominate instead if you had already been on a list.