List Mgmt. 2018 Draft Thread

[LeverPuller]

Can someone confirm something for me?

For Bedford, we only have to match the points value of the highest offer, minus a 20% discount yeah?
Pretty sure we can also take a points debt over to next year.

Points value of the bid*

Bidding is live so will be up to individual sides.

This is why I think we will trade in. Trading in plays to the advantage of clubs with NGA/FS because you can get a free hit on a pick without giving up points.

 

[Demon 16]

I won’t lie, I’m confused.

 

[LeverPuller]

I won’t lie, I’m confused.

Okay.

So academy bids use your next pick for taking your points. So if we had a theoretical player bid on at pick 18, Bedford would be taken with 23.

The thing is, bids happen live rather than beforehand. So in that situation, we take the player with 23. We could then use live trading to move up for 19 and get a similar talent. It lets you have way more flexibility in a single draft.

 

[Demon 16]

Okay.

So academy bids use your next pick for taking your points. So if we had a theoretical player bid on at pick 18, Bedford would be taken with 23.

The thing is, bids happen live rather than beforehand. So in that situation, we take the player with 23. We could then use live trading to move up for 19 and get a similar talent. It lets you have way more flexibility in a single draft.

Thank you. Still confused by some of the detail, but understand the overall theory.

 

[TheCount]

Okay.

So academy bids use your next pick for taking your points. So if we had a theoretical player bid on at pick 18, Bedford would be taken with 23.

The thing is, bids happen live rather than beforehand. So in that situation, we take the player with 23. We could then use live trading to move up for 19 and get a similar talent. It lets you have way more flexibility in a single draft.

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that’s how it works. In that scenario, if Bedford gets a bid at 18, that’s 985 points, which we get a 20% discount on for him being in our academy, which means we need 821 to match it. Pick 23 is worth 815, so we’d use that pick, and it would go to the end of the draft, but we’re still short 6 points, which would then come off our next pick, 28, moving that back to 29. Also, I’m prett sure these picks, and their point value, shuffle back with the bids for other players, so if we see bids for Blakey, Thomas, Scott and Quaynor, the points value we have decreases further

The only way you go into deficit is if you don’t have the points value with your remaining picks, you can’t decide you want to use your later picks that have value, and go into deficit.

In short, if Bedford gets a bid at 18, I’m not sure it gets matched, particularly with 7 list spots, and our 6th pick at 91

 

[LeverPuller]

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that’s how it works. In that scenario, if Bedford gets a bid at 18, that’s 985 points, which we get a 20% discount on for him being in our academy, which means we need 821 to match it. Pick 23 is worth 815, so we’d use that pick, and it would go to the end of the draft, but we’re still short 6 points, which would then come off our next pick, 28, moving that back to 29. Also, I’m prett sure these picks, and their point value, shuffle back with the bids for other players, so if we see bids for Blakey, Thomas, Scott and Quaynor, the points value we have decreases further

The only way you go into deficit is if you don’t have the points value with your remaining picks, you can’t decide you want to use your later picks that have value, and go into deficit.

In short, if Bedford gets a bid at 18, I’m not sure it gets matched, particularly with 7 list spots, and our 6th pick at 91

Bedford won’t get bid on at 18, just trying to put it there for context. It’s more just trying to convey why trading into the 30s on the night makes a shitload of sense for us.

 

[TheCount]

Bedford won’t get bid on at 18, just trying to put it there for context. It’s more just trying to convey why trading into the 30s on the night makes a shitload of sense for us.

I don’t think he will either, I was just speaking to the process, which a bid at 18 being accounted for by 23 doesn’t work out.

 

[Demon 16]

Thanks for clearing all that up..

 

[MarcMaverick]

I'm worried that we'll go into 2019 1-2 players short i.e. not a full list.

 

[TheCount]

I'm worried that we'll go into 2019 1-2 players short i.e. not a full list.

We can't ... it isn't allowed.

We can go with 38 on the list, with 6 rookies, which is basically the same thing.

 

[harry000]

We can't ... it isn't allowed.

We can go with 38 on the list, with 6 rookies, which is basically the same thing.

Could help with re-signing some blokes early (Melksham, Weid, ANB for example). Front end a few contracts.

 

[schmuttt]

People worry way too much about the bottom 5-6 players on the list, you will never have a list that are all capable at AFL level in any given season.

 

[Devastating Boris]

People worry way too much about the bottom 5-6 players on the list, you will never have a list that are all capable at AFL level in any given season.

Oh yeah? You should have seen my “Kevin Sheedy’s Football Manager” team. Thank god for dodgey trading.

 

[TheCount]

Oh yeah? You should have seen my “Kevin Sheedy’s Football Manager” team. Thank god for dodgey trading.

I’m pretty sure that game was responsible for making people think trading 3 duds for 1 gun is a perfectly legitimate trade suggestion

 

[Cannon82]

People worry way too much about the bottom 5-6 players on the list, you will never have a list that are all capable at AFL level in any given season.

We lost some of the bottom players on the list, but we also lost Kent, Tyson, Pedo, Bugg, Vince, etc who are in that middle "meh" tier. We lack depth. We'll probably have 1/3 of the list or more as either not AFL ready or distinctly ordinary.

 

[Devastating Boris]

I’m pretty sure that game was responsible for making people think trading 3 duds for 1 gun is a perfectly legitimate trade suggestion

I have no doubt it was the birth place of Bigfooty

 

[Andy_Mac]

We lost some of the bottom players on the list, but we also lost Kent, Tyson, Pedo, Bugg, Vince, etc who are in that middle "meh" tier. We lack depth. We'll probably have 1/3 of the list or more as either not AFL ready or distinctly ordinary.

Lever, May and potentially KK all come into the prelim side forcing, let’s say for the argument; Frost, Joel Smith and Hannan out. Those 3 along with Fritta, JKH, Strech, Pruess, Garrlet, Hunt and Wagner all as legitimate alternative selections. That’s 32 players ready to roll, the rest of the list needs to be kids we’re developing as Lewis/Jones replacements and/or future depth is and when wags and JKH are ready to be moved on.

To be frank only Tyson was best 22, with Kent and Vince thereabouts.

 

[Cannon82]

Lever, May and potentially KK all come into the prelim side forcing, let’s say for the argument; Frost, Joel Smith and Hannan out. Those 3 along with Fritta, JKH, Strech, Pruess, Garrlet, Hunt and Wagner all as legitimate alternative selections. That’s 32 players ready to roll, the rest of the list needs to be kids we’re developing as Lewis/Jones replacements and/or future depth is and when wags and JKH are ready to be moved on.

To be frank only Tyson was best 22, with Kent and Vince thereabouts.

That Hogan fella?

Most people on this board melt over 2/3 of the players you've listed. Fritsch is there and there abouts, the others are either not there yet or haven't been there for quite a while.

 

[Andy_Mac]

That Hogan fella?

Most people on this board melt over 2/3 of the players you've listed. Fritsch is there and there abouts, the others are either not there yet or haven't been there for quite a while.

They also melt about 2/3rds of the players delisted/traded, that’s why you have to start turning them over and replacing them with kids.

 

[Cannon82]

They also melt about 2/3rds of the players delisted/traded, that’s why you have to start turning them over and replacing them with kids.

Yes you do, but when we're finally in a position to be there and there abouts in terms of actually winning something, having 15 odd players who you don't want anywhere near the side isn't ideal. A few injuries in the middle and truly mediocre players will be getting games.

We also could have done something about a few of the spots during free agency / trade period. Some decent players were moving around for peanuts.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Yes you do, but when we're finally in a position to be there and there abouts in terms of actually winning something, having 15 odd players who you don't want anywhere near the side isn't ideal. A few injuries in the middle and truly mediocre players will be getting games.

We also could have done something about a few of the spots during free agency / trade period. Some decent players were moving around for peanuts.

Agree with this. We seemed so fixated on the Hogan/May trade that it feels like we missed the boat on adding some decent players for not much cost. If Scully comes good for instance, watch Hawthorn shoot past us again.

Looking at our list right now, our depth seems very very thin, and we're about to top it up with more kids or VFL players who will never be AFL standard. Kent was best 22 before popping his shoulder. Tyson was best 22. Bugg was solid depth. Pedo was very under rated and very good depth. Hogan was a young gun not far off being a superstar. Vince was great depth to cover that experienced leader if Lewis or Jones went down.

What's worrying for me, is our depth now is Garlett, Hunt, Stretch, JKH, Maynard, Joel Smith, Tim.Smith, Frost. I mean, no one there besides maybe Frost screams out as being in form or capable of holding down a spot if a best 22 goes down. Hunt and Garlett have dropped off the face of the earth. Yes they could get form.back, but both had opportunities last season and couldnt perform at VFL level. Stretch shows glimpses but is inconsistent, The Smith boys try hard but arent good enough, same as Wagner and JKH. And now we have Maynard as our first depth player to come in if one of our gun mids goes down. I shudder at that thought. Pruess is handy depth for Gawn for sure, and Frost or OMac will be handy depth for a KPD, however our midfield has a strong best 22 look about it, but now has zero depth if we have injuries, and our F50 isnt any better, in fact what happens if TMac or Weid goes down long term? Who replaces Melksham or Petracca if they get injured? I think our depth is really flaky going into next season and if we have a bad run with injuries next year, we are in serious trouble. I was incredibly impressed with Collingwood last season and how they managed to nearly sneak a flag with so many injuries. If we have that many injuries next season, we'll be bottom 6 with our depth. Collingwood has serious depth to their list compared to ours.

 

[stEdy]

Yeah, our depth took a hit but I have no doubt C.Wagner or Lockhart could potentially step up and play a role if needed

 

[Andy_Mac]

Agree with this. We seemed so fixated on the Hogan/May trade that it feels like we missed the boat on adding some decent players for not much cost. If Scully comes good for instance, watch Hawthorn shoot past us again.

Looking at our list right now, our depth seems very very thin, and we're about to top it up with more kids or VFL players who will never be AFL standard. Kent was best 22 before popping his shoulder. Tyson was best 22. Bugg was solid depth. Pedo was very under rated and very good depth. Hogan was a young gun not far off being a superstar. Vince was great depth to cover that experienced leader if Lewis or Jones went down.

What's worrying for me, is our depth now is Garlett, Hunt, Stretch, JKH, Maynard, Joel Smith, Tim.Smith, Frost. I mean, no one there besides maybe Frost screams out as being in form or capable of holding down a spot if a best 22 goes down. Hunt and Garlett have dropped off the face of the earth. Yes they could get form.back, but both had opportunities last season and couldnt perform at VFL level. Stretch shows glimpses but is inconsistent, The Smith boys try hard but arent good enough, same as Wagner and JKH. And now we have Maynard as our first depth player to come in if one of our gun mids goes down. I shudder at that thought. Pruess is handy depth for Gawn for sure, and Frost or OMac will be handy depth for a KPD, however our midfield has a strong best 22 look about it, but now has zero depth if we have injuries, and our F50 isnt any better, in fact what happens if TMac or Weid goes down long term? Who replaces Melksham or Petracca if they get injured? I think our depth is really flaky going into next season and if we have a bad run with injuries next year, we are in serious trouble. I was incredibly impressed with Collingwood last season and how they managed to nearly sneak a flag with so many injuries. If we have that many injuries next season, we'll be bottom 6 with our depth. Collingwood has serious depth to their list compared to ours.

So alarmist!

Don’t forget Fritta and Hannan are also depth, and we’d be expecting to see Baker this coming year too.

Last year if Gawn went down our year was over. We added Pruess who is as good as any back up ruck in the AFL, who if TMAC goes down can play forward in tandem with Gawn. The cost was Tyson with change coming back our way, that was a net sum gain for our list.

We lost Kent who at his absolute best was best 22, but his body continued to fail him. He’s a loss if fit, but he was never fit and age isn’t going to help that.

Buggy and Pedo are good VFL footballers, lots of DFA that are still available are equivalent... notwithstanding Buggs papers were stamped after the Heeney hit and Pedo is on the wrong side of 30 and would have moved behind Pruess and Frost as VFL depth.

Vince retired, that’s why we need to keep going to the draft, notwithstanding he was depth and Lewis will likely too be in the same boat by the end of 2019.

Loosing Hogan wasn’t our call. You guys need to try to remember this... and trading Scully wasn’t happening if that grub paid us. Culture means something the us now days

 

[Crusty Demon]

So alarmist!

Don’t forget Fritta and Hannan are also depth, and we’d be expecting to see Baker this coming year too.

Last year if Gawn went down our year was over. We added Pruess who is as good as any back up ruck in the AFL, who if TMAC goes down can play forward in tandem with Gawn. The cost was Tyson with change coming back our way, that was a net sum gain for our list.

We lost Kent who at his absolute best was best 22, but his body continued to fail him. He’s a loss if fit, but he was never fit and age isn’t going to help that.

Buggy and Pedo are good VFL footballers, lots of DFA that are still available are equivalent... notwithstanding Buggs papers were stamped after the Heeney hit and Pedo is on the wrong side of 30 and would have moved behind Pruess and Frost as VFL depth.

Vince retired, that’s why we need to keep going to the draft, notwithstanding he was depth and Lewis will likely too be in the same boat by the end of 2019.

Loosing Hogan wasn’t our call. You guys need to try to remember this... and trading Scully wasn’t happening if that grub paid us. Culture means something the us now days

I don't feel it's alarmist. Who are our depth players in the midfield? Who are our depth players in the F50? Maynard will be first in if god forbid Viney, Oliver or Brayshaw goes down. That doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence. As much as I was frustrated with Tyson at times, you have to admit he was handy depth and slotted in nicely into the 22 when he needed to. Maynard looks lost. I love the way the Magpies have built their list. Loaded with depth and they had some serious issues with injury this year, and was a kick away from winning a flag.

Besides Garlett(which the game looks to have gone past him), who are our depth players in the F50? Yes, we had to gain a handy back up for Gawn, which we did. Totally understand Hogan was not our call to trade him, and gaining May softened the blow. But with Hogan in the team, Weid was a great back up depth KPF. Now who comes in if TMac or Weid gets injured or loses form? We have a glaring hole in our depth especially in the midfield and front half. Thought we could have gone harder at a few players in the trade period. Lyons for instance would be great depth. I'm not saying we could have gotten him, but why not have a crack. If we have a good run with injuries, we should be good to continue our rise. But I do fear our depth could be a real weakness if injuries plague us next season. C.Wagner is a decent VFL player, but he's had a crack at AFL and looked lost. He's not going to make a difference. I would have loved for us to go hard at keeping Tyson and either one of Bugg or Kent to keep some experienced depth players who have performed at AFL level. And I don't consider Hannan and Fritta as depth players, they are best 22. Bottom end of the 22, but regardless best 22.

 

[Topkent]

I don't feel it's alarmist. Who are our depth players in the midfield? Who are our depth players in the F50? Maynard will be first in if god forbid Viney, Oliver or Brayshaw goes down. That doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence.

You are freaking out so much you have no idea what you are talking about

Gawn Oliver Brayshaw Viney at the centre bounce.

One of the mids goes down then Harmes Comes in.
2 of the mids go down and then you simply take a midfielder from around the ground in Petracca, Jones, AVB, Salem, Lewis, Melksham.

That's 7 options outside the centre square.

Then you simply replace them with Smith or Wagner in defence, Stretch of Hunt on the wing and Hannan or Garlett forward

Plus we haven't been to the ****ing draft yet, may very well be another one of 2 state league players ready to step in as depth that we have identified.

If Tmac goes down then our forward 6 can be Weid Preuss Petracca Melksham Fristch Spargo

More than capable of kicking a score if the midfield does it's job.

Collingwoods 6 for most of the year was Cox, DeGoey, Thomas, Hoskin Elliot, Stephenson, Mihocek

Pies supporters are ****ing liars if they weren't crying about that line at stages this year.