List Mgmt. 2018 Draft Thread

[Demonkings]

I don't feel it's alarmist. Who are our depth players in the midfield? Who are our depth players in the F50? Maynard will be first in if god forbid Viney, Oliver or Brayshaw goes down. That doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence. As much as I was frustrated with Tyson at times, you have to admit he was handy depth and slotted in nicely into the 22 when he needed to. Maynard looks lost. I love the way the Magpies have built their list. Loaded with depth and they had some serious issues with injury this year, and was a kick away from winning a flag.

Besides Garlett(which the game looks to have gone past him), who are our depth players in the F50? Yes, we had to gain a handy back up for Gawn, which we did. Totally understand Hogan was not our call to trade him, and gaining May softened the blow. But with Hogan in the team, Weid was a great back up depth KPF. Now who comes in if TMac or Weid gets injured or loses form? We have a glaring hole in our depth especially in the midfield and front half. Thought we could have gone harder at a few players in the trade period. Lyons for instance would be great depth. I'm not saying we could have gotten him, but why not have a crack. If we have a good run with injuries, we should be good to continue our rise. But I do fear our depth could be a real weakness if injuries plague us next season. C.Wagner is a decent VFL player, but he's had a crack at AFL and looked lost. He's not going to make a difference. I would have loved for us to go hard at keeping Tyson and either one of Bugg or Kent to keep some experienced depth players who have performed at AFL level. And I don't consider Hannan and Fritta as depth players, they are best 22. Bottom end of the 22, but regardless best 22.

Our depth will be weaker next year than it was this season, there’s no question about that. But none of the guys we moved on are going to give us any improvement as a side (except Hogan who we gave up for May which sort of cancel each other out in the short term). The list management decisions this year were bold and aimed at giving our list the capacity to improve. Players like Tyson, Bugg, Pedo, Vince, were either long past it or had severely plateaued or even started to regress as footballers. These aren’t the players that will allow us to improve from preliminary final thrashing recipients to premiers. The best we could hope for is to tread water with these players, but for Goodwin and the footy department that isn’t enough, nor should it be. The team needs to continually improve to win a premiership.

Next year we might be marginally weaker as a list because of the loss of experienced players such as Vince, Kent and Tyson. But obviously Jason Taylor has his eyes on young players in the draft that will provide much greater output over the next 5 years than the lot we just delisted. So to make it brief, I believe the footy department has decided to suck up some short term pain next season by sacrificing experienced depth in preference of developing some young players that will ultimately push us past being contenders into premiers.

It may not work out but I reckon the footy department is going this way to send a message to the playing group about continually seeking to improve and making sacrifices to ensure that improvement happens. That’s what they would be asking of the players with their individual standards and they’re showing that in turn as a football department that they will ruthlessly seek to improve the list. I could be completely wrong about this of course, but hopefully a consistent message that is carried out across the club about elite standards results in premiership drought broken. Maybe not next season, but soon after that.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Let's wait till our list is finalised before worrying too much about depth.

I've got some similar concerns about our list at the moment, but hopefully we have one or two things up our sleeve.

If nothing changes post draft, ie. we don't pick up a DFA and draft only small forwards, then its time to panic.

 

[Cannon82]

"Trading is good! Draft picks are completely unreliable and we're better off paying overs to get a sure thing!"

Now that we have holes in our list:

"Don't panic, we'll go to the draft and pick up some good state league talent, and the kids we drafted last year will develop and be pushing for spots in the 22!"

Is Tom Couch still available?

 

[El Gringo]

Looking at our list right now, our depth seems very very thin, and we're about to top it up with more kids or VFL players who will never be AFL standard. Kent was best 22 before popping his shoulder. Tyson was best 22. Bugg was solid depth. Pedo was very under rated and very good depth. Hogan was a young gun not far off being a superstar. Vince was great depth to cover that experienced leader if Lewis or Jones went down.

Which Kent injury was that? The truth is he had one solid consistent half a season before getting injured and his form has been up and down like a yo-yo outside of that. When he is available and can get on the park that is.

Tyson became a fringe player and that’s why he wanted out (and allegedly almost joined Gold Coast prior to the Kangaroos offer). The best 22 didn’t take a hit on that one but yes it’s less depth.

Bugg couldn’t get games even when the injuries piled up later in the year, it’s not a depth player if the coach doesn’t want to use that player regardless. He was too inaccurate to be a decent forward option and the midfield is too stacked.

Pedersen was at retiring age and with Preuss coming in that’s a greatly superior plan b ruck option.

Hogan was a loss but his WA departure was inevitable. It’s debatable whether T-Mac is better up forward anyway and now we have May to plug the hole T-Mac left in defence.

Vince was a great acquisition for the club and I have high praise for what he gave but he went on for a year too long, he was clearly past it in 2018. Nothing lost in depth there whatsoever.

There’s a lot of panic on here and high praise for Bugg that I find a little bizarre. The list is in the best position it’s been in for probably 20 years yet people are still complaining. I’m not worried at all about depth, especially when guys like Hannan and Fritsch can get plucked late in the draft and do straight away in the big time what they’ve been able to do.

 

[stEdy]

We've been rubbish for decades, finally get an excellent 22, now everyone is worrying about losing an injury plagued Kent, some VFL heroes and bloody Dom Tyson who hasnt improved in nearly 5 years

Taylor has a high success rate turning later picks into promising players that can slot straight in anyway

I swear this is some crook complex Melbourne supporters get where when we finally start making cut throat moves to improve the list everyone gets cold feet and would rather hold on to Dom Tyson and stay in the bottom 4 out of nothing but a feeling of comfort and certainty; The same thing happened with Watts last year too and look how that panned out

 

[Fork n Hell]

i think we could have maybe picked up a couple of tried guys for peanuts to play mostly vfl as back up. wouldn't have hurt, but they aren't really going to make much of a difference to us at the end of the day.
but as for our delisted/traded players, the way I see it is;
Kent was a good player, he only played about a dozen games in the last 2 years. no great loss if they cant stay out on the park consistently anyway.
Tyson wasnt a best 22 player when selecting a balanced team and was struggling to play decent footy in other roles.
Pedo and Vince were both past it this year, they had lost their legs and were struggling to get to contests. nothing we can do about that.
Bugg couldn't force his way into the team either and had poor skills. could easily be replaced with another player from Casey with better skills, like a Lockhart.
Hogan is a big loss, but we gained May which balances up the team better anyway imo.

Garlett, Hunt, Stretch, JKH, the Smiths, Frost/O.mac, Wagner are all handy enough depth, certainly no superstars, but have all proved they can come in and play a role if required and some could even realistically push for a regular spot if they find their best form.
i agree that we just probably don't want too many of them playing at once. but lets not forget they were mostly our depth this year as well.
we also gained Preuss and Kolodjashnij, the types of players that we needed, plus we have a couple of kids like Baker and Petty who will be better for a having had a year in the system as well.

on the midfield depth, beside the regulars from this year, I would expect Viney plays a lot more footy next year, and hopefully Petracca returns in the kind of condition that allows him to play more time onball as well, plus there's AVB to squeeze into the side somewhere. Spargo, Salem and Lewis will likely pinch hit through there a bit as well if need be.
so I don't really see a problem with the midfield depth, we have enough guys who can rotate through there, but I see the problem maybe more in the positions where we can pinch those mids from, if we have to, like HBF or HFF. hopefully we can pick up a quality kid or two at the draft who could step into those positions if needed. we found 2 last year.

I think our forward line does look a little light on for depth but it also looks adaptable enough to still score if a KPF goes down. I mean sometimes we looked our most dangerous this year with Melksham playing out of the goal square, and Fritsch is good mark for his size. same could be said for Petracca and Hannan. but we could also bring in T.Smith as a straight replacement to give contest, or play Preuss in the ruck and Maxy forward is another option, or vice versa. there are options there.

getting a lot of injuries is going to hurt most teams, we're no different, but overall I think our best 22 looks strong and we have enough flexibility in the squad to cover most injury scenarios.

 

[PerfectFooty]

As much as we undervalued Tyson, the club seemed hell bent on rushing him back from injury for finals

 

[Fork n Hell]

As much as we undervalued Tyson, the club seemed hell bent on rushing him back from injury for finals

probably because Stretch was also injured. I think they would have preferred to play him on the wing before Tyson.

 

[stEdy]

Signing AVB when Sydney came knocking was a huge win though, the guy can really play

 

[blitznu]

would like to see Hawthorns depth in their premiership years reckon they didnt have too much past the 25th player. we lost dead weight and some campaigners are crying like we lost 6 best 22 players we improved our 22 and dumped the rubbish what the **** is wrong with that?

 

[Cannon82]

We've been rubbish for decades, finally get an excellent 22, now everyone is worrying about losing an injury plagued Kent, some VFL heroes and bloody Dom Tyson who hasnt improved in nearly 5 years

The thing about injuries in the last 15 odd years is that they didn't cost us a chance at winning anything. Our best player goes down for the season in the last decade? Oh no, our chance at a 13th place finish just went up in smoke! Different circumstances next season.

 

[Demon4123]

Can someone please advise. We have lost 11 players through trades, retirement or delisting. We have added 3 via trading in and upgraded 1 from the rookie list. That means we require 7 players to fill our list. We have currently 5 picks in the upcoming draft including pick 91. How do we acquire the other 2 players. I apologise if this has been discussed previously.

 

[Topkent]

would like to see Hawthorns depth in their premiership years reckon they didnt have too much past the 25th player. we lost dead weight and some campaigners are crying like we lost 6 best 22 players we improved our 22 and dumped the rubbish what the **** is wrong with that?

If there was a bloody super like from tinder for this post id give it.

I remember ****ing around with footy fanatic in high school and Geelongs depth was ****ing shit.

These were the 9 players used outside their best 22 in 2007

Kane Tenace
David Johnson
Travis Varcoe
Brent Prismall
Shannon Byrnes
Stephen King
Tom Hawkins
Charlie Gardiner
Henry Playfair

Hawks 2015
11 outside their best 22
Schoenmakers
Hale
Ceglar
Litherland
Howe
Spangher
Whitecross
Anderson
Sicily
Orourke
Simpkin

Essendon 2000
9 outside 22

Denham
Prior
Jacobs
Henneman
Rioli
Fraser
Robran
Bolton
McVeigh

Brisbane 2001
The super Brisbane list with salary cap benefits
13 out of 22

McGrath
Hadley
Charman
Knoble
McLaren
Clarke
Kennedy
Shattock
Cupido
Bolton
Picken
Robbins
McDonald

No ****ing point carrying depth if your best 22 can't win a flag first and combine those 4 lists together and you probably don't even make finals in 2019.

 

[WERRIDEE]

Why are people complaining about our lack of depth. It's exactly the same and Casey made the grand final. We lost Vince, Kent and Hogan and gained May, Kolodjashnij and Preuss. Nothing to worry about here.

 

[WERRIDEE]

If there was a bloody super like from tinder for this post id give it.

I remember ******* around with footy fanatic in high school and Geelongs depth was ******* shit.

These were the 9 players used outside their best 22 in 2007

Kane Tenace
David Johnson
Travis Varcoe
Brent Prismall
Shannon Byrnes
Stephen King
Tom Hawkins
Charlie Gardiner
Henry Playfair

Hawks 2015
11 outside their best 22
Schoenmakers
Hale
Ceglar
Litherland
Howe
Spangher
Whitecross
Anderson
Sicily
Orourke
Simpkin

Essendon 2000
9 outside 22

Denham
Prior
Jacobs
Henneman
Rioli
Fraser
Robran
Bolton
McVeigh

Brisbane 2001
The super Brisbane list with salary cap benefits
13 out of 22

McGrath
Hadley
Charman
Knoble
McLaren
Clarke
Kennedy
Shattock
Cupido
Bolton
Picken
Robbins
McDonald

No ******* point carrying depth if your best 22 can't win a flag first and combine those 4 lists together and you probably don't even make finals in 2019.

We have depth

Fritsch, Spargo, Frost, Stretch, Garlett, Hunt, J.Smith, Wagner, JKH plus 2 earlyish drafts picks so that's 11 depth players that aren't in my best 22.

 

[Crusty Demon]

We have depth

Fritsch, Spargo, Frost, Stretch, Garlett, Hunt, J.Smith, Wagner, JKH plus 2 earlyish drafts picks so that's 11 depth players that aren't in my best 22.

Im not sure why people are including Fritsch and Spargo as depth..they are best 22. Playing J Smith was a mistake in the prelim instead of Fritta. J Smith is depth. Just not a very good one IMO. And yes, IMO our depth atm, pre-draft looks very very thin, especially in the midfield and the F50. I dont think our front 6 looks much chop really, but they benefit from a very dominant midfield who gets it down there more than any other team. Hogan and Kent(yes, i know he was rarely fit, but when he was fit he's best 22) will be huge losses because they offer a point of difference. Kent was genuinely quick and Hogan had tricks Weid will never have. So for me, if TMac goes down, or lets say Melksham, then we're in some trouble. This draft will be one of the most intriguing for us in years.

 

[WERRIDEE]

Im not sure why people are including Fritsch and Spargo as depth..they are best 22. Playing J Smith was a mistake in the prelim instead of Fritta. J Smith is depth. Just not a very good one IMO. And yes, IMO our depth atm, pre-draft looks very very thin, especially in the midfield and the F50. I dont think our front 6 looks much chop really, but they benefit from a very dominant midfield who gets it down there more than any other team. Hogan and Kent(yes, i know he was rarely fit, but when he was fit he's best 22) will be huge losses because they offer a point of difference. Kent was genuinely quick and Hogan had tricks Weid will never have. So for me, if TMac goes down, or lets say Melksham, then we're in some trouble. This draft will be one of the most intriguing for us in years.

Hogan is overrated we played a lot better without him and Kent is always injured. Our depth is fine.
BEST 22
B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER
HB: HIBBERD, O.MCDONALD, SALEM
C: KOLODJASHNIJ, OLIVER, BRAYSHAW
HF: PETRACCA, WEIDEMAN, NEAL-BULLEN
F: GAWN, T.MCDONALD, MELKSHAM
FOLL: PREUSS, VINEY, HARMES
IC: JONES, LEWIS, VANDENBERG, HANNAN

See no Fritsch or Spargo can't fit 24 into 22.

 

[Cannon82]

See no Fritsch or Spargo can't fit 24 into 22.

Probably something to do with you shoe-horning Gawn into the forward pocket and bringing Preuss in. Given Spargo played all of last season, what leads you to believe he'll suddenly be out of the side in the coming season?

 

[WERRIDEE]

Probably something to do with you shoe-horning Gawn into the forward pocket and bringing Preuss in. Given Spargo played all of last season, what leads you to believe he'll suddenly be out of the side in the coming season?

Spargo didn't play all season he was dropped for a few games. He's our weakest link and Preuss will definitely be in the side. He didn't come to the club to play in the reserves.

 

[Cannon82]

Spargo didn't play all season he was dropped for a few games. He's our weakest link and Preuss will definitely be in the side. He didn't come to the club to play in the reserves.

Ah, good, good. Gawn was shit last season so we definitely need a new ruckman.

 

[WERRIDEE]

Ah, good, good. Gawn was shit last season so we definitely need a new ruckman.

No but we will play 2 ruckman like West Coast. Gawn is a better forward that's why I named him in the pocket.

 

[Cannon82]

No but we will play 2 ruckman like West Coast. Gawn is a better forward that's why I named him in the pocket.

Playing two rucks on the park at the same time would be silly. Gawn can clunk one in the 50 and kick the odd goal, but he's not a better forward option than TMac or Weid (or Hannan, Spargo, Milkshakes, OMac, etc). He should play in the ruck, where he was a little bit handy last season.

If Preuss didn't come to play in the reserves, he should've gone to a club that didn't have a mid-twenties All-Australian ruckman playing for them.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Playing two rucks on the park at the same time would be silly. Gawn can clunk one in the 50 and kick the odd goal, but he's not a better forward option than TMac or Weid (or Hannan, Spargo, Milkshakes, OMac, etc). He should play in the ruck, where he was a little bit handy last season.

If Preuss didn't come to play in the reserves, he should've gone to a club that didn't have a mid-twenties All-Australian ruckman playing for them.

Whilst I agree with, you don’t think that conversation was had between Preuss and the club?

I’m pretty confident we’re playing 2 rucks! Don’t forget that we went with Weid, TMAC and Hogan when they were all fit last year.

 

[Andy_Mac]

Im not sure why people are including Fritsch and Spargo as depth..they are best 22. Playing J Smith was a mistake in the prelim instead of Fritta. J Smith is depth. Just not a very good one IMO. And yes, IMO our depth atm, pre-draft looks very very thin, especially in the midfield and the F50. I dont think our front 6 looks much chop really, but they benefit from a very dominant midfield who gets it down there more than any other team. Hogan and Kent(yes, i know he was rarely fit, but when he was fit he's best 22) will be huge losses because they offer a point of difference. Kent was genuinely quick and Hogan had tricks Weid will never have. So for me, if TMac goes down, or lets say Melksham, then we're in some trouble. This draft will be one of the most intriguing for us in years.

We have excellent midfield depth.

If we need to, we bring Salem, Petracca, AVB, Lewis, Jones etc back into the midfield and replace them on flanks with Hannan, Strech, Hunt, Gartlet and JKH etc. and before you say JKH is shit he was good enough to be playing in R23 ahead of the supposed depth we’ve frivolously culled.

So taking into consideration your Fritta for Smith statement, the following is the semi final side:

FB: Jetta OMAC Lewis
HB: Salem Frost Hibberd
C: Petracca Brayshaw Harmes
HF: Melk TMAC Hannan
FF: Weid AVB ANB
Fol.: Gawn Jones Oliver
Int.: Viney Spargo Tyson Fritta

Now you need to add Stephen May, Jake Lever, Kade Kolo and Brayden Pruess to that 22

 

[Cannon82]

Whilst I agree with, you don’t think that conversation was had between Preuss and the club?

I’m pretty confident we’re playing 2 rucks! Don’t forget that we went with Weid, TMAC and Hogan when they were all fit last year.

I'm sure it did and I hope we didn't guarantee an 8 game unproven ruck regular game time. Sadly you're probably right and I expect we'll see the likes of Preuss and Lewis in the 22 even if they don't actually have a regular position to play.

We did go with three talls for a while, and Weid didn't do much during those games. Weid looked a lot better in a two tall setup. TMac, Hogan and Weid are also more mobile than Preuss and Gawn. If we're playing a tall but ordinary forward line and reducing the amount of defensive pressure in the forward 50, that'd be Crazy Goody.