List Mgmt. 2018 Draft/Trade/FA Thread

[SandyToes]

Probably a bit harsh of a response towards a justified criticism of that trade idea.

If someone was offering us picks 17, Pick 29, Pick 36, and Hall/Grigg for pick 2 or 3 we would all laugh them out of the building. You can't get a top 5 pick by throwing together a pile of scraps.

You mean you can't make a silk purse out of a few pigs' ears?

 

[Stroppy]

Such a long time to go before the trade period and free agency.....

Note to self: patience.

 

[17er]

Probably a bit harsh of a response towards a justified criticism of that trade idea.

If someone was offering us picks 17, Pick 29, Pick 36, and Hall/Grigg for pick 2 or 3 we would all laugh them out of the building. You can't get a top 5 pick by throwing together a pile of scraps.

It obviously wasn’t a serious proposal. Rather, it was an example of the kinds of things these clubs can offer at the trade table. They have the pieces, it just remains to be seen if they can put enough out there to get it up.
I got a detailed and insightful response from a Richmond fan, yet the Carlton fan failled to grasp the basic idea and, as usual, Suns fans are lining up to take a dump on the idea.
The Suns and Blues have the 2 biggest Trade pieces. It would be up to Righmond to show how much they wanted to part with for Lynch.

 

[17er]

So, that's a no then?

If the Suns choose to go nuclear on Lynch and hit the Trade market, surely Carlton's pick would have to be one of the targets. Richmond would be able to provide players and picks to land Lynch through the #1 pick. In a 3 way deal, Carlton and the Suns have the picks required and each want Tigers fringe players. There are a few ways it might go down, including the Suns having to take Levi Casboult in exchange for someone like Aaron Hall, while the Tigers have players for days.

Suns INs: Pick #1, Casboult, Miles?
Suns OUTs: Lynch, Hall?, Pick #29

Blues INs: Pick #17-19, Pick #29, Pick #36, Hall?, Grigg?
Blues OUTs: Pick #1, Casboult

Tigers INs: Lynch
Tigers OUTs: Pick #17-19, Pick #36, Grigg?, Miles?

Miles we know has visited the Suns and is open to the idea. I have chosen Grigg and Casboult as tradebait because both have a year left on their contracts before they can walk away as unrestricted free agents this time next year. The key to this trade even being considered is Richmond's willingness to trust in its current list enough to compromise their draft, possibly next year's draft too. The Blues have the top pick, but an ageing list (6 players over 30) and they have just delisted 3 26yos and a rookie who never debuted in the AFL plus had the cousin Silvagni retire, which mean that only 2 Senior spots and 3 Rookies spots have been vacated. As things stand, the Blues have picks #1, #24, #25, #65 and #73. I don't believe that Carlton will greatly improve this position in the Trade Period without shifting out of pick #1 and the Suns have the best trading piece to help make that happen.

Who knows, maybe Lynch just says yes to going to Carlton?
Maybe Collingwood comes up with a better offer?
Perhaps the Hawks shift the deckchairs around and convince Roughie to head north?
Maybe Lynch gets thrown into the McGovern trade? Would the Tigers trade Jack Graham back to SA to help get MM for the Blues and Lynch to Tigerland?

Just to help you out here, there are 11 question marks and 12 examples of conditionals or modalities. What that means is that I am establishing a likelihood of possibility vs probability. The main theme is written in bold italics which means you should pay attention to that part and respond to it. You are invited to critique, address, examine, interact and all round discuss all ideas, but just remember that you are a guest on this page and you'll only be shown courtesy if you extend the same in kind.

 

[Fat Pizza]

Do you guys entertain Freo pick 5 (provided we get 4 from Brisbane) for your pick 17, 26 and 38?

You have so many picks, so would you offload many to secure a quality high pick 6?

Gives you 2,3(Lynch compo) and 6.
Gives us some picks to fill the current gap we have from 5 to 77

Yes, I think we'd be very interested in a trade like that. Not sure what we'd give up for it & it probably also depends on the SUNS getting potential priority access to State league players, but having 3 of the top 6 in this year's draft would be attractive. I could see us drafting 3 South Australians.

 

[nutstar]

Yes, I think we'd be very interested in a trade like that. Not sure what we'd give up for it & it probably also depends on the SUNS getting potential priority access to State league players, but having 3 of the top 6 in this year's draft would be attractive. I could see us drafting 2 South Australians.

With those picks I'd do the three. Lukosius, Rankine and Rozee

 

[Fat Pizza]

With those picks I'd do the three. Lukosius, Rankine and Rozee

I actually meant to say 3. I've amended my previous post. Yes, they're the 3 I was thinking of. I don't watch the juniors much, but I think I heard Cal Twomey say the SUNS could be looking at Rozee. It makes sense.

 

[17er]

I actually meant to say 3. I've amended my previous post. Yes, they're the 3 I was thinking of. I don't watch the juniors much, but I think I heard Cal Twomey say the SUNS could be looking at Rozee. It makes sense.

Do you guys entertain Freo pick 5 (provided we get 4 from Brisbane) for your pick 17, 26 and 38?

This is a bit cheeky. Pick #5 is worth #17, #38 and #41. This isn't like the Weller Trade where the Dockers had the whip hand. The situation is reversed, where Freo need picks and the Suns have picks to burn, but where Freo has actual need of extra picks to cover the 3 retirements and probable Neale departure, the Suns will have plenty of potential trade partners in the Top 10 who would rather net picks than keep their high pick. However, there will likely be quite a few options on the table given the Suns will be looking to trade players to gather some more 2nd and 3rd rounders. Pick #5 could end up being #26, #29 and #39 (from North for Hall) or one of those picks could be replaced by a future 2nd rounder.

The Dockers have played hard ball on Bennell and Weller. Time to break bread with the new GM and start things off with a deal that benefits both without one side or the other getting shafted.

 

[Peel67skin]

Who will be next to get delisted , Brisbane already cut 7 .

 

[SnusCG]

Do you guys entertain Freo pick 5 (provided we get 4 from Brisbane) for your pick 17, 26 and 38?

This is a bit cheeky. Pick #5 is worth #17, #38 and #41. This isn't like the Weller Trade where the Dockers had the whip hand. The situation is reversed, where Freo need picks and the Suns have picks to burn, but where Freo has actual need of extra picks to cover the 3 retirements and probable Neale departure, the Suns will have plenty of potential trade partners in the Top 10 who would rather net picks than keep their high pick. However, there will likely be quite a few options on the table given the Suns will be looking to trade players to gather some more 2nd and 3rd rounders. Pick #5 could end up being #26, #29 and #39 (from North for Hall) or one of those picks could be replaced by a future 2nd rounder.

The Dockers have played hard ball on Bennell and Weller. Time to break bread with the new GM and start things off with a deal that benefits both without one side or the other getting shafted.

Again though, pick points are only relevant for matching academy or father son bids. It's what they were designed for. in general I'd rather a pick 5 player than majority of those picked at 17/38/41.

In the last few years would you rather (I bolded who I would rate as the best played from that draft out of the list)

Jake Stringer (5) or Josh Simpson (17) + Jackson Ramsey (38) + Mason Wood (41)
Kade Kolo or Michael Apeness + Dayle Garlett + Jake Kolo
Jordan De Goey or Kyle Langford + Jack Hiscox + Jack Lonie
Darcy Parish or Tom Doedee + Harley Balic + Matthew Flynn
Will Setterfield or Jarred Berry + Sean Darcy + Brennan Cox (off-topic but 2016 was an insane draft wow)
Adam Cerra or Jack Higgins + Jack Petrucelle + Toby Wooller

I'd rather take the 'best' possible player with pick 5 (seeing as we have picks 2 and likely 3 as well) rather than a combination of okay/decent picks with 17/38/41. Especially this year as we could go Lukosius/Rankine/Rozee or Hately

Obvious outliers in the above list being 2016 draft where Setterfield did his ACL this year and about 75% of the first 50 picks have been really good players.

 

[pressurepoint]

Lukosius having a bit of a nearly day. Could have kicked 3-4 goals . So instinctive. Played a fair bit on the wing and off half back. Can't wait for him to have his name called out by the suns

Sorry for the intrusion.

I'd like Carlton to do a swap with GCS to make sure this happens.
A swap of pick 1 and 2, plus a swap of seconds in Carlton's favour.
Carlton have the Dogs and Crows second round picks. GCS will have a surplus of second round picks this year so there is room to move on that front.

Thoughts?

 

[Fat Pizza]

Sorry for the intrusion.

I'd like Carlton to do a swap with GCS to make sure this happens.
A swap of pick 1 and 2, plus a swap of seconds in Carlton's favour.
Carlton have the Dogs and Crows second round picks. GCS will have a surplus of second round picks this year so there is room to move on that front.

Thoughts?

No need for the SUNS to be part of this. If Carlton picks Lukosius, we'll take the next best of a very good bunch. Then we'll take the next best after him as well.

 

[Peel67skin]

Again though, pick points are only relevant for matching academy or father son bids. It's what they were designed for. in general I'd rather a pick 5 player than majority of those picked at 17/38/41.

In the last few years would you rather (I bolded who I would rate as the best played from that draft out of the list)

Jake Stringer (5) or Josh Simpson (17) + Jackson Ramsey (38) + Mason Wood (41)
Kade Kolo or Michael Apeness + Dayle Garlett + Jake Kolo
Jordan De Goey or Kyle Langford + Jack Hiscox + Jack Lonie
Darcy Parish or Tom Doedee + Harley Balic + Matthew Flynn
Will Setterfield or Jarred Berry + Sean Darcy + Brennan Cox (off-topic but 2016 was an insane draft wow)
Adam Cerra or Jack Higgins + Jack Petrucelle + Toby Wooller

I'd rather take the 'best' possible player with pick 5 (seeing as we have picks 2 and likely 3 as well) rather than a combination of okay/decent picks with 17/38/41. Especially this year as we could go Lukosius/Rankine/Rozee or Hately

Obvious outliers in the above list being 2016 draft where Setterfield did his ACL this year and about 75% of the first 50 picks have been really good players.

Really depend how you play the variable games and how you pick player up
Eg in 2014 draft you could end up with
Pick 17 Connor Blakely
Pick 38 Alex Bulletin
Pick 41 Jack Lonie or Mitch McGovern .

Jordan Degoey or Connor Blakely , Alex Bulletin , Mitch Mogovern.

 

[Peel67skin]

Sorry for the intrusion.

I'd like Carlton to do a swap with GCS to make sure this happens.
A swap of pick 1 and 2, plus a swap of seconds in Carlton's favour.
Carlton have the Dogs and Crows second round picks. GCS will have a surplus of second round picks this year so there is room to move on that front.

Thoughts?

I don't know why you want to complicated thing , go ahead and pick your no 1 pick and let GC Select pick 2 and 3 .

Will you do GC Essendon second Rd pick for your 2019 second Rd pick ?

 

[pressurepoint]

I don't know why you want to complicated thing , go ahead and pick your no 1 pick and let GC Select pick 2 and 3 .

Will you do GC Essendon second Rd pick for your 2019 second Rd pick ?

The second rounders would have to swap in Carlton's favour (even slightly so), given you're upgrading to Pick 1 from 2.

Reason that I think Carlton would want to do this trade is to take Lukosius off Carlton's hands, which in turn, will help take Adelaide off Carlton's tail.
- Everyone seems to agree that Carlton will not take Lukosius but take Walsh
- Everyone also seems to agree that Lukosius is the best talent available and deserving of the #1 pick
- If I was SOS, I would want to avoid dealing with Adelaide at the trade table this year, I think they'll slow things down and be annoying
- GCS need a KPF and I would have thought would take Lukosius, so why not give them the pick to do so - which helps get Adelaide off our backs. Alternatively, gives GCS a better hand at the trade table with Adelaide should they be negotiating something

 

[Happy Idiot]

The second rounders would have to swap in Carlton's favour (even slightly so), given you're upgrading to Pick 1 from 2.

Reason that I think Carlton would want to do this trade is to take Lukosius off Carlton's hands, which in turn, will help take Adelaide off Carlton's tail.
- Everyone seems to agree that Carlton will not take Lukosius but take Walsh
- Everyone also seems to agree that Lukosius is the best talent available and deserving of the #1 pick
- If I was SOS, I would want to avoid dealing with Adelaide at the trade table this year, I think they'll slow things down and be annoying
- GCS need a KPF and I would have thought would take Lukosius, so why not give them the pick to do so - which helps get Adelaide off our backs. Alternatively, gives GCS a better hand at the trade table with Adelaide should they be negotiating something

None of that makes any sense for the Suns who are happy with Lukosius or Walsh. Why don't Carlton give us pick 1 + something extra in return for pick 2? It helps you out to get Adelaide off your tail. So you're winning, right?

 

[OB11]

#2 Lukosius
#3 Rankine
#12 Butters
#19 Jordan Clark
#28 Bailey Scott (or if doesn't nominate us whoever drops out of O'Halloran/Stocker/Valente/Caldwell/Dursma/Williams/McHenry/Jones/McClellan/Sturt)

 

[TheSunGod]

None of that makes any sense for the Suns who are happy with Lukosius or Walsh. Why don't Carlton give us pick 1 + something extra in return for pick 2? It helps you out to get Adelaide off your tail. So you're winning, right?

Exactly. If we then traded #1 to Adelaide we’d then miss out on both of the top two picks?

 

[17er]

Again though, pick points are only relevant for matching academy or father son bids. It's what they were designed for. in general I'd rather a pick 5 player than majority of those picked at 17/38/41.

In the last few years would you rather (I bolded who I would rate as the best played from that draft out of the list)

Jake Stringer (5) or Josh Simpson (17) + Jackson Ramsey (38) + Mason Wood (41)
Kade Kolo or Michael Apeness + Dayle Garlett + Jake Kolo
Jordan De Goey or Kyle Langford + Jack Hiscox + Jack Lonie
Darcy Parish or Tom Doedee + Harley Balic + Matthew Flynn
Will Setterfield or Jarred Berry + Sean Darcy + Brennan Cox (off-topic but 2016 was an insane draft wow)
Adam Cerra or Jack Higgins + Jack Petrucelle + Toby Wooller

I'd rather take the 'best' possible player with pick 5 (seeing as we have picks 2 and likely 3 as well) rather than a combination of okay/decent picks with 17/38/41. Especially this year as we could go Lukosius/Rankine/Rozee or Hately

Obvious outliers in the above list being 2016 draft where Setterfield did his ACL this year and about 75% of the first 50 picks have been really good players.

Technically, you are right about the AFL introducing a points system for calculating discounts for F/S and Academy bids. However, the system was copied from the NFL which doesn't have anything resembling father/sons or academy discount and they use it primarily as a guide. Be it NFL or AFL, this Pick #5 is going to be valued according to a set of factors. For one, the Suns can afford to burn a few picks for a live top 5 pick. Secondly, Freo desperately needs picks, the more the better. Thirdly, the Suns will have other clubs looking to trade picks and possibly players, therefore, more suitors for the West Coast pick and the 2nd rounders. This where the value of the pick gets scrutinised and the value chart plays in the Suns favour because when Freo demand too much the Suns can go back to the points on the table and say that they will pay pick #5 value for what will probably be pick #6 on the night. That is Freo's wriggle space, not the trade which Cobbler put up paying way over.

As for your chart,
- I would hate Stringer at the Suns,
- I wish now we'd drafted Jake Kolodjashnij instead,
- Tom Doedee looks the goods now,
- Berry was chosen because he is mates with Hugh McLuggage, Will Setterfield is regarded as a flight risk
- Adam Cerra was being touted as a trading chip for Freo to get more picks = massive flight risk already

I'm not really sure what the point is though. The Suns aren't going to be picking in the 2nd round. It will be trade up into the 1st round, trade back into the 3rd round to wait for bids on Scott, Koenen and Graham, then trade unused picks forward to 2019 once all senior roster spots are filled. With a compo pick and a priority pick, the 2nd rounders and WC pick can be used to trade for 4 Top 10 picks, so why would we pay overs to Freo when we are trying to do business with multiple clubs with the aim of getting as much value out of trades as possible?

 

[17er]

Sorry for the intrusion.

I'd like Carlton to do a swap with GCS to make sure this happens.
A swap of pick 1 and 2, plus a swap of seconds in Carlton's favour.
Carlton have the Dogs and Crows second round picks. GCS will have a surplus of second round picks this year so there is room to move on that front.

Thoughts?

For pick #1 we'll give you Lynch as a bargaining chip to do business with Richmond. We'd prefer a little more than just the pick, but see what you can do.

 

[Peel67skin]

The second rounders would have to swap in Carlton's favour (even slightly so), given you're upgrading to Pick 1 from 2.

Reason that I think Carlton would want to do this trade is to take Lukosius off Carlton's hands, which in turn, will help take Adelaide off Carlton's tail.
- Everyone seems to agree that Carlton will not take Lukosius but take Walsh
- Everyone also seems to agree that Lukosius is the best talent available and deserving of the #1 pick
- If I was SOS, I would want to avoid dealing with Adelaide at the trade table this year, I think they'll slow things down and be annoying
- GCS need a KPF and I would have thought would take Lukosius, so why not give them the pick to do so - which helps get Adelaide off our backs. Alternatively, gives GCS a better hand at the trade table with Adelaide should they be negotiating something

Is all depend on your choice ,
I prefer to let people make the choice to pick player No 1 , if they screw up not my problem , my problem will be picking up the right players in their round .whether they are pick 2 or rookie pick ( eg short, Adam Saad )
If KPF come in pick 30+ like Ben Brown and Mitch Mcgovern , I am happy to give up going around to chase pick 1.

 

[SnusCG]

Technically, you are right about the AFL introducing a points system for calculating discounts for F/S and Academy bids. However, the system was copied from the NFL which doesn't have anything resembling father/sons or academy discount and they use it primarily as a guide. Be it NFL or AFL, this Pick #5 is going to be valued according to a set of factors. For one, the Suns can afford to burn a few picks for a live top 5 pick. Secondly, Freo desperately needs picks, the more the better. Thirdly, the Suns will have other clubs looking to trade picks and possibly players, therefore, more suitors for the West Coast pick and the 2nd rounders. This where the value of the pick gets scrutinised and the value chart plays in the Suns favour because when Freo demand too much the Suns can go back to the points on the table and say that they will pay pick #5 value for what will probably be pick #6 on the night. That is Freo's wriggle space, not the trade which Cobbler put up paying way over.

As for your chart,
- I would hate Stringer at the Suns,
- I wish now we'd drafted Jake Kolodjashnij instead,
- Tom Doedee looks the goods now,
- Berry was chosen because he is mates with Hugh McLuggage, Will Setterfield is regarded as a flight risk
- Adam Cerra was being touted as a trading chip for Freo to get more picks = massive flight risk already

I'm not really sure what the point is though. The Suns aren't going to be picking in the 2nd round. It will be trade up into the 1st round, trade back into the 3rd round to wait for bids on Scott, Koenen and Graham, then trade unused picks forward to 2019 once all senior roster spots are filled. With a compo pick and a priority pick, the 2nd rounders and WC pick can be used to trade for 4 Top 10 picks, so why would we pay overs to Freo when we are trying to do business with multiple clubs with the aim of getting as much value out of trades as possible?

Meant more from the perspective of who would you rather in general. Not who would you rather at the Suns and the issues with retention or the personality of the players (ie. stringer).

Agree though and was part of my point but forgot to write it. We dont have enough list spots for multiple second round picks so i'd much rather pick up someone at 5 than keep 3 later picks when we wont use them

 

[17er]

Meant more from the perspective of who would you rather in general. Not who would you rather at the Suns and the issues with retention or the personality of the players (ie. stringer).

Agree though and was part of my point but forgot to write it. We dont have enough list spots for multiple second round picks so i'd much rather pick up someone at 5 than keep 3 later picks when we wont use them

I knew we were much closer on this. Absolutely agree that pick #5 or #6 would be way better than the alternative. I just think a priority pick is a certainty and some of those 2nd and 3rd rounders (maybe a player trade) will be needed to upgrade both the WC pick AND the priority pick. Unless the AFL give us pick #1, then I don't care what Freo charge us as long as the 4 picks are as high as possible and there's room to manoeuvre at the end of the Draft.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Probably a bit harsh of a response towards a justified criticism of that trade idea.

If someone was offering us picks 17, Pick 29, Pick 36, and Hall/Grigg for pick 2 or 3 we would all laugh them out of the building. You can't get a top 5 pick by throwing together a pile of scraps.

Thanks, but I think I will just leave it there. Poster somehow seems offended I asked a genuine question regarding his post. Followed up with two condescending posts based on his assumption I'm an idiot who doesn't understand the English language, all while failing to answer the simple question I asked. Oh well.

 

[17er]

Thanks, but I think I will just leave it there. Poster somehow seems offended I asked a genuine question regarding his post. Followed up with two condescending posts based on his assumption I'm an idiot who doesn't understand the English language, all while failing to answer the simple question I asked. Oh well.

Probably had something to do with your tone in your original response and the utter lack of comprehension of the speculative nature of my post. You flamed it because you were trolling the Suns board and found what you thought was an easy target. Now you're being passive aggressive by engaging a poster who you know has been discussing these hypotheticals with me all day. When you're ready to discuss things and have a valid contribution to make to the Suns board then by all means do so and be welcome. But when you come in with that shit-eating condescension you will get burned.