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List Mgmt. 2018 Draft/Trade/FA Thread

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gosuns! said:
Do we compare Weller and Ballard against LDU who seems likely we would've taken at 2 but isn't confirmed or against the Brayshaw actually taken at 2?

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Either way Ballard should not be part of the discussion, it’s pure ass he lasted to that pick, it’s not like he was part of the original deal. The deal we brokered was Weller and 41 for pick 2 :drunk:

Weller has proven to be a good pick up, I don’t think anyone is disputing it, was the trading of pick 2 to get him good list management? IMO hell no
 

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Kristof said:
As outsiders, that version of what is happening and May's response to it seems incredibly unlikely.
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I literally gave every angle on the rumours. You aren't making yourself clear at all with this comment.
 
Iva Bigun said:
Either way Ballard should not be part of the discussion, it’s pure ass he lasted to that pick, it’s not like he was part of the original deal. The deal we brokered was Weller and 41 for pick 2 :drunk:

Weller has proven to be a good pick up, I don’t think anyone is disputing it, was the trading of pick 2 to get him good list management? IMO hell no
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By that logic, Chris Masten shouldn't be regarded as part of the Judd Trade. If we were to compare Kennedy's 197 games for the Eagles only and the 145 games Judd played for Carlton, then the Blues won that trade at the time yet the Eagles continue to get value out of Kennedy and the trade continues to look worse every year. But of course, Masten was part of the trade, or rather the draft pick that became Masten, who although he wasn't worth pick #3 he has played 195 games for the Eagles. Then we also have to look at Tony Notte, who at pick #20 was definitely a disappointment because he only played 2 games, while the afterthought pick #46 that Carlton got with Judd turned out to be Dennis Armfield, who played 143 games for Carlton during the Judd years.

There are a lot of similarities to the Judd Trade, which involved no less than 3 draft picks that were similarly risky to the picks involved in the Weller Trade. The thing that kills the argument that Ballard should not be included in judging the Weller Trade is that those on the negative side are still arguing for the "What might have been" while the pro-trade supporters are simply stating the facts that Weller was a great pickup for us and Ballard is the bonus that makes the trade worth it. Freo were unhappy to lose Weller, but in paying overs for Brayshaw they eliminate the go-home factor given that the family is split between Perth and Melbourne anyway. North ended up with LDU, the player who "Might have" become a sun, who tallied 7 games and utterly failed to reach any of the heights predicted on this board. Freo also got Adam Cerra at #5, who some of us liked and had an awesome season and yet spent the past couple of weeks crying to go home before dismally signing his contract today.

People love to play "what might have been" when arguing the Judd Trade. Remember, Cyril Rioli fell to pick #12, Carlton could have picked Trent Cotchin and Alex Rance before Richmond, while Tex Walker fell to the very bottom of the Draft. But you can't change the past and you can't make up the rules when the situation doesn't suit you. Weller and Ballard represent great value for pick #2 while the jury is out on the player the Suns might have picked. It is a lot of fun to speculate, I agree, such as how high would you have picked Weller in 2014 IF we'd known Garlett would wash out and IF we had been able to match Freo's bid for him? Then again, how lucky were we to get Touk Miller that late when most re-drafts have him going 1st round or even Top 10? I've seen a re-draft that had Weller, Miller and Wright in their Top 8 and I have to say it was pretty spot on across the board.
 
17er said:
By that logic, Chris Masten shouldn't be regarded as part of the Judd Trade. If we were to compare Kennedy's 197 games for the Eagles only and the 145 games Judd played for Carlton, then the Blues won that trade at the time yet the Eagles continue to get value out of Kennedy and the trade continues to look worse every year. But of course, Masten was part of the trade, or rather the draft pick that became Masten, who although he wasn't worth pick #3 he has played 195 games for the Eagles. Then we also have to look at Tony Notte, who at pick #20 was definitely a disappointment because he only played 2 games, while the afterthought pick #46 that Carlton got with Judd turned out to be Dennis Armfield, who played 143 games for Carlton during the Judd years.

There are a lot of similarities to the Judd Trade, which involved no less than 3 draft picks that were similarly risky to the picks involved in the Weller Trade. The thing that kills the argument that Ballard should not be included in judging the Weller Trade is that those on the negative side are still arguing for the "What might have been" while the pro-trade supporters are simply stating the facts that Weller was a great pickup for us and Ballard is the bonus that makes the trade worth it. Freo were unhappy to lose Weller, but in paying overs for Brayshaw they eliminate the go-home factor given that the family is split between Perth and Melbourne anyway. North ended up with LDU, the player who "Might have" become a sun, who tallied 7 games and utterly failed to reach any of the heights predicted on this board. Freo also got Adam Cerra at #5, who some of us liked and had an awesome season and yet spent the past couple of weeks crying to go home before dismally signing his contract today.

People love to play "what might have been" when arguing the Judd Trade. Remember, Cyril Rioli fell to pick #12, Carlton could have picked Trent Cotchin and Alex Rance before Richmond, while Tex Walker fell to the very bottom of the Draft. But you can't change the past and you can't make up the rules when the situation doesn't suit you. Weller and Ballard represent great value for pick #2 while the jury is out on the player the Suns might have picked. It is a lot of fun to speculate, I agree, such as how high would you have picked Weller in 2014 IF we'd known Garlett would wash out and IF we had been able to match Freo's bid for him? Then again, how lucky were we to get Touk Miller that late when most re-drafts have him going 1st round or even Top 10? I've seen a re-draft that had Weller, Miller and Wright in their Top 8 and I have to say it was pretty spot on across the board.
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Reason Adelaide got Tex Walker at 70+
, Not arguing just provide some fact .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Walker_(footballer)
Walker attended Willyama High School in Broken Hill.[3] His father, Wayne, was a prominent footballer in Broken Hill who played more than 350 games, and Walker soon followed in his footsteps.[4] In 2006, Walker accepted a NSW Scholarship contract with Adelaide, at the age of 16.[1] However, he continued to play for his senior local amateur league team, North Broken Hill, in the Broken Hill Football League, leading them to the 2007 Premiership with a seven-goal, best on ground performance, playing at centre half forward.
 
17er said:
By that logic, Chris Masten shouldn't be regarded as part of the Judd Trade. If we were to compare Kennedy's 197 games for the Eagles only and the 145 games Judd played for Carlton, then the Blues won that trade at the time yet the Eagles continue to get value out of Kennedy and the trade continues to look worse every year. But of course, Masten was part of the trade, or rather the draft pick that became Masten, who although he wasn't worth pick #3 he has played 195 games for the Eagles. Then we also have to look at Tony Notte, who at pick #20 was definitely a disappointment because he only played 2 games, while the afterthought pick #46 that Carlton got with Judd turned out to be Dennis Armfield, who played 143 games for Carlton during the Judd years.

There are a lot of similarities to the Judd Trade, which involved no less than 3 draft picks that were similarly risky to the picks involved in the Weller Trade. The thing that kills the argument that Ballard should not be included in judging the Weller Trade is that those on the negative side are still arguing for the "What might have been" while the pro-trade supporters are simply stating the facts that Weller was a great pickup for us and Ballard is the bonus that makes the trade worth it. Freo were unhappy to lose Weller, but in paying overs for Brayshaw they eliminate the go-home factor given that the family is split between Perth and Melbourne anyway. North ended up with LDU, the player who "Might have" become a sun, who tallied 7 games and utterly failed to reach any of the heights predicted on this board. Freo also got Adam Cerra at #5, who some of us liked and had an awesome season and yet spent the past couple of weeks crying to go home before dismally signing his contract today.

People love to play "what might have been" when arguing the Judd Trade. Remember, Cyril Rioli fell to pick #12, Carlton could have picked Trent Cotchin and Alex Rance before Richmond, while Tex Walker fell to the very bottom of the Draft. But you can't change the past and you can't make up the rules when the situation doesn't suit you. Weller and Ballard represent great value for pick #2 while the jury is out on the player the Suns might have picked. It is a lot of fun to speculate, I agree, such as how high would you have picked Weller in 2014 IF we'd known Garlett would wash out and IF we had been able to match Freo's bid for him? Then again, how lucky were we to get Touk Miller that late when most re-drafts have him going 1st round or even Top 10? I've seen a re-draft that had Weller, Miller and Wright in their Top 8 and I have to say it was pretty spot on across the board.
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Well let’s trade pick 2 for McGovan and a pick in the 40s I’m sure if it worked once it will work every time. ;)

I know we disagree but to me looking at the trade at the time and in isolation it was a shockingly bad trade. Luckily Weller has been very good and Ballard looks a likely player but to me it is revisionist history to say it was a good trade. IMO it was a bad trade that luckily now looks ok

Soon enough we will have another one to talk about, 3x 2nd round draft picks for a 2 pick upgrade. I look forward to whoever we get at pick 17-18 from the Eagles being a gun that well justifys the price
 
Supersuns said:
Flat out no. He has been a useless footballer for the last 2 years
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Probably not much to be gained by bringing him in as a player but I think it's worth exploring the idea of mentoring role. He's been in the AFL system for 13 years, played over 200 AFL games, grand finals etc. Our academy players will probably relate better to him because he's a Gold Coast junior (went to PBC High), similar to the position we have Andrew Raines in right now.

Similar to Kurt Tippett, I feel it's worth exploring a mentoring role for Gilbert with our juniors and if he excels we can look into a higher coaching position. If he fails, we cut him after one season and we've lost very little because he wouldn't be given a crucial role with the club anyway (at the beginning of his tenure).
 
Iva Bigun said:
Well let’s trade pick 2 for McGovan and a pick in the 40s I’m sure if it worked once it will work every time. ;)

I know we disagree but to me looking at the trade at the time and in isolation it was a shockingly bad trade. Luckily Weller has been very good and Ballard looks a likely player but to me it is revisionist history to say it was a good trade. IMO it was a bad trade that luckily now looks ok

Soon enough we will have another one to talk about, 3x 2nd round draft picks for a 2 pick upgrade. I look forward to whoever we get at pick 17-18 from the Eagles being a gun that well justifys the price
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Hard no to McGovern because he's not a patch on his brother, which is where all the hype comes from. Someone likely ends up paying overs though because they know what they will be getting instead of gambliong on the draft. I'd take Gaff for #2 though and one of our 2nd rounders back!

Let's just hope Collingwood and whichever Sydney team wins can knock the Eagles out in straight sets, which nominally means pick #14 but even that will get pushed back by our compo and priority picks, the latter of which somewhat mitigates the terrible pick trade. One thing I will say in favour of Clayton's gamble was that the Suns really didn't need all those picks last year and paying it forward put the onus on the Suns to play well in order to devalue the 2nd round pick we sent to WC and for the Eagles to go 5 and 17 to give us fair value.
 
Peel67skin said:
Reason Adelaide got Tex Walker at 70+
, Not arguing just provide some fact .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Walker_(footballer)
Walker attended Willyama High School in Broken Hill.[3] His father, Wayne, was a prominent footballer in Broken Hill who played more than 350 games, and Walker soon followed in his footsteps.[4] In 2006, Walker accepted a NSW Scholarship contract with Adelaide, at the age of 16.[1] However, he continued to play for his senior local amateur league team, North Broken Hill, in the Broken Hill Football League, leading them to the 2007 Premiership with a seven-goal, best on ground performance, playing at centre half forward.
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More likely he had character concerns. Still, had he missed that draft he might have wound up at either the Suns or Giants.
 
17er said:
Hard no to McGovern because he's not a patch on his brother, which is where all the hype comes from. Someone likely ends up paying overs though because they know what they will be getting instead of gambliong on the draft. I'd take Gaff for #2 though and one of our 2nd rounders back!

Let's just hope Collingwood and whichever Sydney team wins can knock the Eagles out in straight sets, which nominally means pick #14 but even that will get pushed back by our compo and priority picks, the latter of which somewhat mitigates the terrible pick trade. One thing I will say in favour of Clayton's gamble was that the Suns really didn't need all those picks last year and paying it forward put the onus on the Suns to play well in order to devalue the 2nd round pick we sent to WC and for the Eagles to go 5 and 17 to give us fair value.
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Agree on McGovan, I would give up the Eagles pick for him at best and then only maybe
 

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17er said:
More likely he had character concerns. Still, had he missed that draft he might have wound up at either the Suns or Giants.
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Nah not at all , NSW scholarship during that time are like F/S , kind of free hit . Like How Geelong getting Ablett and Hawkins at low pick before 20% discount come in due to loophole , the same how GWS/Sydney get some cheap academy players before AFL close the loop hole that you cannot get them cheap . Eg ( Tom Mitchell, Heeney ).
 
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GC2015 said:
Probably not much to be gained by bringing him in as a player but I think it's worth exploring the idea of mentoring role. He's been in the AFL system for 13 years, played over 200 AFL games, grand finals etc. Our academy players will probably relate better to him because he's a Gold Coast junior (went to PBC High), similar to the position we have Andrew Raines in right now.

Similar to Kurt Tippett, I feel it's worth exploring a mentoring role for Gilbert with our juniors and if he excels we can look into a higher coaching position. If he fails, we cut him after one season and we've lost very little because he wouldn't be given a crucial role with the club anyway (at the beginning of his tenure).
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You don’t want Gilbert around the club at all
 

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Sun youngster Jack Scrimshaw is set to request a trade back home to Victoria despite a few years on his contract. reported today
 
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