List Mgmt. 2018 Draft/Trade/FA Thread

[17er]

tell us how you really feel haha

I got on Trade Radio one day and asked Terry Wallace how many list spots he thought the Suns needed to turn over during the Trade Period to get ready for the Draft, but it made him look and sound really dumb. After that I think they banned me because every time I tried to call Cal Twomey to tell him his pick swap sucked balls they hung up on me and eventually blocked me. I love Cal, but his obsession with the pick #1 for picks #2 and #3 as well as the King Twins to the Suns is just too much.

 

[exile]

I got on Trade Radio one day and asked Terry Wallace how many list spots he thought the Suns needed to turn over during the Trade Period to get ready for the Draft, but it made him look and sound really dumb. After that I think they banned me because every time I tried to call Cal Twomey to tell him his pick swap sucked balls they hung up on me and eventually blocked me. I love Cal, but his obsession with the pick #1 for picks #2 and #3 as well as the King Twins to the Suns is just too much.

didn't listen to trade radio this year, but did hear cal was going on about that trade a bit excessively haha. don't really think we need to do it either. there's better options out there if we were to trade from the draft position we're in at the moment.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I love Cal, but his obsession with the pick #1 for picks #2 and #3 as well as the King Twins to the Suns is just too much.

I don't. He's well connected, but not a great evaluator of talent IMO. And his performance on trade radio was poor.

 

[17er]

didn't listen to trade radio this year, but did hear cal was going on about that trade a bit excessively haha. don't really think we need to do it either. there's better options out there if we were to trade from the draft position we're in at the moment.

Cal came on the GCSunscast and was super-rational. His prediction was that Walsh would go to Carlton with pick #1 and Lukosius and Rankine would come to the Suns. That was 12 weeks ago, so I guess his producers must have asked him to spice things up. I really don't think he meant any of it and I reckon he's going to be fairly well on the mark. It's Terry Wallace and Matthew Lloyd who are the real Suns haters - they have said such rubbish about our list without demonstrating a shred of perception or insight into why the side has been underperforming.

 

[17er]

I don't. He's well connected, but not a great evaluator of talent IMO. And his performance on trade radio was poor.

He gets to know the young guys and he listens to the best experts. Character goes a long way when selecting the right players to take high in the draft. His mock draft last year was pretty close to the eventual order and he's on the money again this year.

 

[Jirik13]

I don't. He's well connected, but not a great evaluator of talent IMO. And his performance on trade radio was poor.

Have to agree. Cal lowered his standard on Trade Radio to the level of Wallace, Lloyd. He did not do his homework. He was going on and on with Wallace why Suns did not play Wright and Ainsworth when both were actually injured or were coming from injury.
And yes he is obsessed with Walsh. Doerre is better in evaluating talent in my opinion. Walsh's kick is definitely worry. I would take Smith over him.

 

[Peel67skin]

So with Burgess ,Corbett , Collins , Risca , possible Holman on Rookie A .
There is no need to delist Lonergan and Jack Leslie right .

 

[17er]

Doerre's latest phantom draft has Walsh at #1, Lukosius at #2 and Rozee at #3, which is a drastic shift for him from previous predictions. He is basing these predictions on the indicative draft order instead of his usual power rankings, so he clearly subscribes to the Luko + Rozee = reason to remain while Twomey is going for BPA = best player available. Both have Max King going to the Saints which is a very popular prediction because St Kilda need a marking goalkicker and he's doing his rehab at the club so he's halfway there. Next Doerre goes Rankine to Port, Smith to the Suns and Ben King to the Bulldogs, but Twomey has Smith, Ben King then Rozee because his form guide isn't predicting based on clubs.

Doerre's 2017 Draft predictions were way off a week before and then he suddenly changed his list dramatically in line with a lot of more popular mock drafts, so I don't have as much faith in him as others. Twomey consistently kicked his butt and even when he was wrong it wasn't by far, whereas Knightmare tends to follow others when his predictions get a little skew whiff.
Doerre's Top 10 on Nov 13, 2017, were

1. Paddy Dow
2. Luke Davies-Uniacke
3. Cam Rayner
4. Darcy Fogarty
5. Adam Cerra
6. Aaron Naughton
7. Jaidyn Stephenson
8. Andrew Brayshaw
9. Nick Coffield
10. Aiden Bonar

Then he changed it so much that he almost predicted it exactly right. Twomey has been consistent all year.

 

[CommittedSuns]

So with Burgess ,Corbett , Collins , Risca , possible Holman on Rookie A .
There is no need to delist Lonergan and Jack Leslie right .

We had 13 list spot openings after the trade period. However of those 13 they are absorbed by Burgess, Collins, Corbett, Rischitelli, Horlin-Smith, Miles, Ellis and Hombsch. That leaves 5 spots open with the Suns holding 5 picks... Unless the suns do a swap of picks they appear to be safe

 

[17er]

So with Burgess ,Corbett , Collins , Risca , possible Holman on Rookie A .
There is no need to delist Lonergan and Jack Leslie right .

There are 3 broad possibilities:
- neither are delisted and the Suns pick 5 players at the National Draft and 2 players in the Rookie Draft
- one of them is delisted and the Suns pick 6 players at the National Draft and 2 players in the Rookie Draft
- both are delisted and the Suns trade some picks to select 7 players at the National Draft and 2 players in the Rookie Draft

In the first option, there is potential for the Suns to do Trades that will mean their 4th pick is higher, such as trading #24 and #29 for #17.

In the 2nd option, it appears likely that Jack Leslie would go given the number of tall defenders brought and his probable replacement on the List would be Caleb Graham. Should the Suns promise him place on the Rookie List other clubs will probably let him slip.

In the 3rd option, the Suns would need to trade back one pick for 2 in order to come out with 7 picks overall. In this scenario, I expect the Suns will select both Graham and Koenen, whereas in the others they appear to expect Graham to slip to the Rookie Draft.

 

[OB11]

Doerre's latest phantom draft has Walsh at #1, Lukosius at #2 and Rozee at #3, which is a drastic shift for him from previous predictions. He is basing these predictions on the indicative draft order instead of his usual power rankings, so he clearly subscribes to the Luko + Rozee = reason to remain while Twomey is going for BPA = best player available. Both have Max King going to the Saints which is a very popular prediction because St Kilda need a marking goalkicker and he's doing his rehab at the club so he's halfway there. Next Doerre goes Rankine to Port, Smith to the Suns and Ben King to the Bulldogs, but Twomey has Smith, Ben King then Rozee because his form guide isn't predicting based on clubs.

Doerre's 2017 Draft predictions were way off a week before and then he suddenly changed his list dramatically in line with a lot of more popular mock drafts, so I don't have as much faith in him as others. Twomey consistently kicked his butt and even when he was wrong it wasn't by far, whereas Knightmare tends to follow others when his predictions get a little skew whiff.
Doerre's Top 10 on Nov 13, 2017, were

1. Paddy Dow
2. Luke Davies-Uniacke
3. Cam Rayner
4. Darcy Fogarty
5. Adam Cerra
6. Aaron Naughton
7. Jaidyn Stephenson
8. Andrew Brayshaw
9. Nick Coffield
10. Aiden Bonar

Then he changed it so much that he almost predicted it exactly right. Twomey has been consistent all year.

TBH they all start changing their mock drafts dramatically with 2 days to go as they start hearing the whispers out of clubs and start borrowing from other media outlets that they know are connected to certain clubs and they all end up the same by draft day.

I like that Doerre really backs himself in and goes outside the square. I remember he was one of the first guys on the Oliver bandwagon. Last year his lovechild early days was Paddy Dow before other rated him.

Hopefully he is right that Lukosious is the best talent he's ever seen and he ends up being picked by the Suns and has a long career with us.


On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Peel67skin]

There are 3 broad possibilities:
- neither are delisted and the Suns pick 5 players at the National Draft and 2 players in the Rookie Draft
- one of them is delisted and the Suns pick 6 players at the National Draft and 2 players in the Rookie Draft
- both are delisted and the Suns trade some picks to select 7 players at the National Draft and 2 players in the Rookie Draft

In the first option, there is potential for the Suns to do Trades that will mean their 4th pick is higher, such as trading #24 and #29 for #17.

In the 2nd option, it appears likely that Jack Leslie would go given the number of tall defenders brought and his probable replacement on the List would be Caleb Graham. Should the Suns promise him place on the Rookie List other clubs will probably let him slip.

In the 3rd option, the Suns would need to trade back one pick for 2 in order to come out with 7 picks overall. In this scenario, I expect the Suns will select both Graham and Koenen, whereas in the others they appear to expect Graham to slip to the Rookie Draft.

Do you have the weblink that mention Burgess ,Collins , Corbett are rookie list players, Because even AFL website presume they are on senior list hopefully everything get clearer on 31 Oct list lodgement . Pick 80 is definitely reserved for Koenan incase somebody bid on him with their last pick . Any bid after pick 56 is free as long you got list spots . Graham should be Rookie B . If nobody bid on Koenan in ND Draft and everybody pass on Koenan before pick 80 ( eg ND Draft end at pick 70) he automatically get selected by GC at pick 2 rookie A. The only club that can go late at Koenan should be North.

 

[Jirik13]

Doerre's latest phantom draft has Walsh at #1, Lukosius at #2 and Rozee at #3, which is a drastic shift for him from previous predictions. He is basing these predictions on the indicative draft order instead of his usual power rankings, so he clearly subscribes to the Luko + Rozee = reason to remain while Twomey is going for BPA = best player available. Both have Max King going to the Saints which is a very popular prediction because St Kilda need a marking goalkicker and he's doing his rehab at the club so he's halfway there. Next Doerre goes Rankine to Port, Smith to the Suns and Ben King to the Bulldogs, but Twomey has Smith, Ben King then Rozee because his form guide isn't predicting based on clubs.

Doerre's 2017 Draft predictions were way off a week before and then he suddenly changed his list dramatically in line with a lot of more popular mock drafts, so I don't have as much faith in him as others. Twomey consistently kicked his butt and even when he was wrong it wasn't by far, whereas Knightmare tends to follow others when his predictions get a little skew whiff.
Doerre's Top 10 on Nov 13, 2017, were

1. Paddy Dow
2. Luke Davies-Uniacke
3. Cam Rayner
4. Darcy Fogarty
5. Adam Cerra
6. Aaron Naughton
7. Jaidyn Stephenson
8. Andrew Brayshaw
9. Nick Coffield
10. Aiden Bonar

Then he changed it so much that he almost predicted it exactly right. Twomey has been consistent all year.

Doerre's Power ranking has nothing to do with his Phantom draft. He is actually very consistent with Lukosius and Rankine as best players in the draft.
1. Lukosius
2. Rankine
3. Smith
4. Walsh
5. Max King

 

[17er]

Do you have the weblink that mention Burgess ,Collins , Corbett are rookie list players, Because even AFL website presume they are on senior list . Pick 80 is definitely reserved for Koenan incase somebody bid on him with their last pick . Any bid after pick 56 is free as long you got list spots .

Yeah, the club has either been slack on this or else they are being deliberately cagey. Final official lists have to be submitted to the AFL by Wednesday, so we'll have confirmation. The State League concession picks are all on the Rookie List and despite media outlets saying Holman went onto the Senior list, there's no reason for it with the expanded spots on the Rookie List. MacPherson had to get promoted because he'd spent 3 years as a Rookie.

With 5 spots and 6 picks I definitely think we need to move around the board a bit. Ideally, Leslie gets re-rookied and the picks we have in the 20s can be traded for an early and a later pick, such as the one with Richmond #24 and #29 for #17 but get Richmond to toss in #92.

#2 Lukosius
#3 Rankine
#6 Hately
#17 McLennan
#80 Koenen
#92 Graham

Rookie Draft
#2 Leslie
#20 Brodie Foster/Harry Simington/Emmanuel Baru/Timakoi Bowie/Kwaby Boakye/Lachie McDonald?

 

[17er]

Doerre's Power ranking has nothing to do with his Phantom draft. He is actually very consistent with Lukosius and Rankine as best players in the draft.
1. Lukosius
2. Rankine
3. Smith
4. Walsh
5. Max King

http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...ntom-************-knightmare-first-two-rounds

Doerre does Power Rankings AND Phantom Drafts

 

[eppo67]

Have to agree. Cal lowered his standard on Trade Radio to the level of Wallace, Lloyd. He did not do his homework. He was going on and on with Wallace why Suns did not play Wright and Ainsworth when both were actually injured or were coming from injury.
And yes he is obsessed with Walsh. Doerre is better in evaluating talent in my opinion. Walsh's kick is definitely worry. I would take Smith over him.

I was wondering if that was just me because I saw Walsh's highlight reel and he didn't hit a single target. Not one.

 

[Sunraysia]

Yeah, the club has either been slack on this or else they are being deliberately cagey. Final official lists have to be submitted to the AFL by Wednesday, so we'll have confirmation. The State League concession picks are all on the Rookie List and despite media outlets saying Holman went onto the Senior list, there's no reason for it with the expanded spots on the Rookie List. MacPherson had to get promoted because he'd spent 3 years as a Rookie.

With 5 spots and 6 picks I definitely think we need to move around the board a bit. Ideally, Leslie gets re-rookied and the picks we have in the 20s can be traded for an early and a later pick, such as the one with Richmond #24 and #29 for #17 but get Richmond to toss in #92.

#2 Lukosius
#3 Rankine
#6 Hately
#17 McLennan
#80 Koenen
#92 Graham

Rookie Draft
#2 Leslie
#20 Brodie Foster/Harry Simington/Emmanuel Baru/Timakoi Bowie/Kwaby Boakye/Lachie McDonald?

Basically agree with a lot of this - but have you considered us taking somebody as a delisted free agent ?
I'm worried about interest in Goddard as claimed by Herald Sun and the Mav Weller story on AFL.com.
Someone additional would need to delisted from the senior list to make room for a Goddard (surely he wouldn't come to be a rookie). Weller may come also but more likely as a rookie at expense of pick #20 in your scenario.
I am playing devils advocate here - I don't want any of Goddard , Weller , Pickett or todays story Parker....

 

[Peel67skin]

Yeah, the club has either been slack on this or else they are being deliberately cagey. Final official lists have to be submitted to the AFL by Wednesday, so we'll have confirmation. The State League concession picks are all on the Rookie List and despite media outlets saying Holman went onto the Senior list, there's no reason for it with the expanded spots on the Rookie List. MacPherson had to get promoted because he'd spent 3 years as a Rookie.

With 5 spots and 6 picks I definitely think we need to move around the board a bit. Ideally, Leslie gets re-rookied and the picks we have in the 20s can be traded for an early and a later pick, such as the one with Richmond #24 and #29 for #17 but get Richmond to toss in #92.

#2 Lukosius
#3 Rankine
#6 Hately
#17 McLennan
#80 Koenen
#92 Graham

Rookie Draft
#2 Leslie
#20 Brodie Foster/Harry Simington/Emmanuel Baru/Timakoi Bowie/Kwaby Boakye/Lachie McDonald?

Good point , iMO l don't see the point of offering straight up two years deal to Koenan and Graham if no other club bid on them in ND Draft . I am not saying they are not good but if they don't show enough , is not fair to delist other who had one year contract eg Sheer,Dawson ,Heron who hqppen to show more next year because they are out of contract .Miles , GHS , Corey Ellis , Hombsch should all be under 3 years contract . Collins , Burgess , Corbett expected to be more advanced with their mature body and work hard to earn another year of contract like Holman .
Players should get paid based on their performance not because they are GC academy players and have an easy first two years contract .

* GWS Ruckmen Kieran Bigg, Bulldog Tim English , Mitch Mcgovern , Ben Brown , Lobb are a great example if you are not good enough at 18 , come back at 19 and try again .

 

[Jirik13]

http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...ntom-************-knightmare-first-two-rounds

Doerre does Power Rankings AND Phantom Drafts

Yes, I look at both his Power and Phantom. Quite different what he believes is the ranking of players based on abilities, talent and the order players will be drafted. He has Rozee number 9 in his Power.

 

[17er]

Basically agree with a lot of this - but have you considered us taking somebody as a delisted free agent ?
I'm worried about interest in Goddard as claimed by Herald Sun and the Mav Weller story on AFL.com.
Someone additional would need to delisted from the senior list to make room for a Goddard (surely he wouldn't come to be a rookie). Weller may come also but more likely as a rookie at expense of pick #20 in your scenario.
I am playing devils advocate here - I don't want any of Goddard , Weller , Pickett or todays story Parker....

Ok, let's look at the possibilities for the Rookie Spots because there are some things that haven't been mentioned.

Firstly, there is 1 Category A spot and 1 Category B spot. Going on that, the 2nd spot MUST go to a Suns Academy player. If Caleb Graham slips through the National Draft, then he has to be the first considered there. I have mainly named 19 year olds because I think this year's crop had too many injuries and will benefit from a season in the expanded U18 comp next year.

There's also a chance that neither Koenen nor Graham get selected in the Draft and then the deckchairs will need to be shuffled, although personally I don't think the club takes this risky option.

The other possibility is that either Dawson or Heron is made Category A, which means the two Rookie picks would have to be Suns Academy players.

The final possibility is that the Suns renege on their offer to Rischa. I don't know that it would come to that, but if it means the difference between re-rookied spots going to guys getting delisted this week or going to a bloke who got cut in the first lot of delistings then it has to be a possibility. I could only see this happening in the event of a 5th player being directly signed to the Senior list this week.

 

[Peel67skin]

Ok, let's look at the possibilities for the Rookie Spots because there are some things that haven't been mentioned.

Firstly, there is 1 Category A spot and 1 Category B spot. Going on that, the 2nd spot MUST go to a Suns Academy player. If Caleb Graham slips through the National Draft, then he has to be the first considered there. I have mainly named 19 year olds because I think this year's crop had too many injuries and will benefit from a season in the expanded U18 comp next year.

There's also a chance that neither Koenen nor Graham get selected in the Draft and then the deckchairs will need to be shuffled, although personally I don't think the club takes this risky option.

The other possibility is that either Dawson or Heron is made Category A, which means the two Rookie picks would have to be Suns Academy players.

The final possibility is that the Suns renege on their offer to Rischa. I don't know that it would come to that, but if it means the difference between re-rookied spots going to guys getting delisted this week or going to a bloke who got cut in the first lot of delistings then it has to be a possibility. I could only see this happening in the event of a 5th player being directly signed to the Senior list this week.

Or is it possible to go 38 senior list and 8 Rookie A and 3 Rookie B . AFL said two extra rookie spots did not said must be 40 senior list and 6 rookie A.

 

[Peel67skin]

I am playing devils advocate here - I don't want any of Goddard , Weller , Pickett or todays story Parker....

Don't worry about Pickett or Parker you need to wait until draft day to get them , as for Goddard and Weller good luck they are coming to replace Lonergan and Leslie .

 

[Iva Bigun]

I don’t love the idea of trading pick 3 because I really like the look of Rankine and Rozee. But I see a couple of possible situations where 6 is definitely on the table. Firstly if Smith goes at 4 and we are left with both King twins available then surely a VIC team will give up a fair bit to move up and take Max, who would be a steal at 6. And secondly if Smith is adamant on staying in Melbourne and we don’t like him then I wouldn’t mind moving down a couple of spots and picking up something of value.

In saying that though, I think we are pretty high on Caldwell and I have a feeling we will take him at 6 now unless Rozee somehow lasts. He seems to be rising into that group of 8 weirdly despite barely playing and I reckon GWS and the Bulldogs will be keen on him as well at 7 and 9

Rozees rise sounds a lot like Scrimshaw’s. Just saying

 

[Peel67skin]

Rozees rise sounds a lot like Scrimshaw’s. Just saying

Don't get him then .

 

[17er]

Or is it possible to go 38 senior list and 8 Rookie A and 3 Rookie B . AFL said two extra rookie spots did not said must be 40 senior list and 6 rookie A.

The Suns Rookie list is different to other clubs because we have Academy players and the concession spots. We can have 6 Cat A and 3 Cat B, but only Cat A players can play unless an injury occurs and a Cat B player is nominated to become eligible for Senior selection.

Completely separate from this is the Senior list, which must have a minimum of 38 and maximum of 40 players. To the best of my knowledge, if we clear 7 Senior list spots and only pick 5 players in the National Draft, we could then promote players from the Rookie List and go to the Rookie Draft with extra spots.

Another thing to add here is that there will be a Pre-season list changes period and Mid-season Rookie Draft next year, so a Mav Weller or Dan Menzel who fails to find a club before the Draft could be picked up after Christmas or in the middle of the season. Basically, if a player is injured in the pre-season or during the first half of the season and will miss the whole year the club can bring in a Rookie - former AFL listed or nominated for the National Draft. Before March 15, the Club can sign a player and make the injured player inactive, but both players will count toward the Salary Cap.

The order for the Mid-season rookie draft will be the reverse order of the ladder at that time. This could see our list grow even bigger and any players picked up in this way can either be retained or delisted at season's end. It might even be a way to bring in Academy players who are top agers and narrowly miss being drafted in 2018 that are playing particularly well in the NEAFL or bringing back a former player like Max Spencer.