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List Mgmt. 2018 Draft/Trade/FA Thread

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Johnny Bananas said:
I've asked this same question and the only firm conclusion I can draw is that Aussies are a bunch of sooks compared to Americans. Even non-athletes in America move everywhere for university, unlike half of Aussie students.
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Chalk and cheese, mate. It is a cultural thing for WEALTHY Americans and elite students with scholarships to travel all over America to go to College. Your comment is so ignorant as to actually be offensive. The 21 and 22 year olds drafted in American sports have been extremely well prepared for professional sport and they still fail to make the big time MOST of the time. Do you think poor kids in America go to University? Hell no. And then you say HALF the kids in Australia don't move for their education? Well, derr! Half the kids don't have to travel because they already live near Universities and the other half do friggen move because they live nowhere near university. How dumb are you?

The AFL Draft drags kids around the country who do not necessarily have any foundation or the family to support them with. Steven May got to where he is because of scholarships and his will to succeed, so he PAID to have his family follow him. Tom Lynch got where he is because of a silver spoon he still hasn't extricated from his arse. Your conclusions aren't firm, they are running down your leg. Indigenous players are far more likely to flame out. Why do you think that is? Bunch of sooks??

American sports and Australian sports are utterly different. If anything, the flaws in the AFL's drafting and free agency system need to be contrasted with the American system to see why emulating it doesn't work and how lessons can be learnt. This discussion topic is stupid and isn't respectful to the reasons why a lot of players want out after a short time. The draft age needs to be raised and a proper junior development competition, like the one Victoria is now expanding to Tasmania, NSW, ACT, NT and Queensland need to go National so that kids actually get exposure to playing country wide and the Academy zone system must eventually cover all 18 clubs so that the top regional talent remains in their zones and the remainder ultimately make up the AFL depth happy to play wherever they can get a game.
 
17er said:
Chalk and cheese, mate. It is a cultural thing for WEALTHY Americans and elite students with scholarships to travel all over America to go to College. Your comment is so ignorant as to actually be offensive. The 21 and 22 year olds drafted in American sports have been extremely well prepared for professional sport and they still fail to make the big time MOST of the time. Do you think poor kids in America go to University? Hell no. And then you say HALF the kids in Australia don't move for their education? Well, derr! Half the kids don't have to travel because they already live near Universities and the other half do friggen move because they live nowhere near university. How dumb are you
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Dial it down a bit and play the ball and not the man. You must wonder why you've been suspended previously.

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17er said:
Chalk and cheese, mate. It is a cultural thing for WEALTHY Americans and elite students with scholarships to travel all over America to go to College. Your comment is so ignorant as to actually be offensive. T
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This is a major thread derail but I have to say your posturing on this seems completely contrary to the perceived common knowledge
The vast majority of AFL players now are processed through elite private schools and seem to garner that sense of entitlement quite quickly (eg Steven May) whereas many poor American kids from say Bumburn Arkansas see a scholarship from UCLA (at around the same age as our AFL draftees)as a gift despite it being on the other side of the Country
The last time I looked NBA NFL and MLB is dominated by players of color- well the good players anyway- and by default from lower socio-economic status
Unless the socio-economic structure of the World has changed overnight and rich white guys don't rule anymore I just don't understand your diatribe
AFL is very very white with some indigenous exception
I have to say your post was rather perplexing and unnecessarily aggressive unless you can justify it
I'm with Mr Bods -for better or worse we have a group of rich kids in the AFL junior system with major entitlement issues
But I think that is a problem that runs deeper than just sport
In Australia sadly poor kids don't play sport anymore- it's too expensive
 
OB11 said:
The going rate during the trade period in trading of picks was a 50% premium being paid to the team with the higher pick.

I don't know why the crows would want 6 when all the SA talent would most likely be gone but if they did it would be for 8 and 13/16 with maybe 29 going back if there lucky

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Keep pick 6 and take another SA boy.
 

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Is rozee still growing,
if he reaches 190 cm with his mitts, pace and footy IQ.
Then you might have the new Nathan fyfe.
fyfe was pick 20 but apparently fremantle seriously considered him at pick 3 (who turned out to be a dud) because that's how highley they rated him.
Just because rankine appears more talented at 18 level doesn't mean hell be able to dominate at afl level rozee is bigger and faster.

and I seriously don't understand why other teams shit on the suns its already been determined by gill that your here to stay
 
WhiteX out .
Next Sutcliffe out please .


 
17er said:
Chalk and cheese, mate. It is a cultural thing for WEALTHY Americans and elite students with scholarships to travel all over America to go to College. Your comment is so ignorant as to actually be offensive. The 21 and 22 year olds drafted in American sports have been extremely well prepared for professional sport and they still fail to make the big time MOST of the time. Do you think poor kids in America go to University? Hell no. And then you say HALF the kids in Australia don't move for their education? Well, derr! Half the kids don't have to travel because they already live near Universities and the other half do friggen move because they live nowhere near university.
Click to expand...

I legitimately wonder how you get through the day if you're so perturbed by that comment. There are plenty of students from poor backgrounds in American universities, because even if they don't have HECS their scholarship system is much more widespread than it is here. There are plenty who aren't on scholarships either and survive by working two jobs while studying. The culture of Americans is different and simply doesn't coddle 18 year olds as much as we do (in our cities, anyway). I know of someone in America whose parents lived 2 minutes away from the uni campus they went to, and they still lived in a college dorm because that's their culture. And they weren't a millionaire. Even in Britain, people who aren't rich routinely move to a different city for university, even when they've grown up near a university.

17er said:
How dumb are you?
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Does your username reflect your age now, or in five years' time?

Now, back to discussing the draft. It's a possibility neither McLennan nor O Halloran last until 24, I'm guessing at least one trade up from the 20s will happen.
 
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Johnny Bananas said:
I legitimately wonder how you get through the day if you're so perturbed by that comment. There are plenty of students from poor backgrounds in American universities, because their scholarship system is much more widespread than it is here. There are plenty who aren't on scholarships either and survive by working two jobs while studying. The culture of Americans is different and simply doesn't coddle 18 year olds as much as we do (in our cities, anyway). I know of someone in America whose parents lived 2 minutes away from the uni campus they went to, and they still lived in a college dorm because that's their culture. And they weren't a millionaire. Even in Britain, people who aren't rich routinely move to a different city for university, even when they've grown up near a university.



Does your username reflect your age now, or in five years' time?

Now, back to discussing the draft. It's a possibility neither McLennan nor O Halloran last until 24, I'm guessing at least one trade up from the 20s will happen.
Click to expand...
You can read it as aggressive or exasperated, but if you're feeling so defensive you should ask yourself why. I completely disagree with you and I work in higher education so I kinda know what I'm talking about. There are huge amounts of students who come from the country and interstate, even overseas, and they really struggle. The best student outcomes often occur when students take a gap year or even a few years after high school or a deferment in the middle, which is reflected in the AFL one way or another and raises the question about the system.

Personally, I'd rather see players be required to finish school and then have a transition year before entering the Draft. As it is, draft prospects are right now doing their final exams for high school, whereas in the US they'd be working out which College Scholarship to accept. Imagine if the 18 AFL clubs aligned themselves to Universities as part of an U19 Academy? The NEAFL already has 2 University sides, Sydney Uni and Uni of Western Sydney. The VFL's worst ever side was Melbourne Uni, yet the club itself still exists a couple of kicks away from Carlton.

At this time, the Suns as a club are looking for ways to develop their players, so this attitude of condemning homesick players is obviously outdated and the club is moving on. They made mistakes with Garlett and Saad, but the important thing is that they learnt from them. If it was me in charge of newly drafted players, I'd be enrolling them in Uni or Tafe and telling them to work as hard at that as they do at footy. Straight away they'd be meeting like minded kids from all over the country as well as locals and they'd become part of the community. Some kids do this - I would be interested to see if Bailey Scott enrols in a Uni course not offered on the Gold Coast.

I would apologise for the tone I used, but you couldn't help yourself in your retaliation so I won't bother. As for the rest of you, enjoy your free kick!
 
17er said:
If it was me in charge of newly drafted players, I'd be enrolling them in Uni or Tafe and telling them to work as hard at that as they do at footy. Straight away they'd be meeting like minded kids from all over the country as well as locals and they'd become part of the community. Some kids do this - I would be interested to see if Bailey Scott enrols in a Uni course not offered on the Gold Coast.
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This I completely agree with
In fact it should be compulsory
Draftees should have a minimum 4 year contract
They should then have a diploma or degree by the end of that contract all things being equal
I'm sure most of these kids are playing 6 hours of FIFA and Fortnite a day
Most of the College kids in the US enter the major leagues with some bogus "Sports Management" or "Biomechanics" diploma
But at least they've studied and understood concepts of learning and reading and research
 
17er said:
I would apologise for the tone I used, but you couldn't help yourself in your retaliation so I won't bother. As for the rest of you, enjoy your free kick!
Click to expand...

Don't act like a grouch if you don't want to be treated like one.
 
17er said:
Chalk and cheese, mate. It is a cultural thing for WEALTHY Americans and elite students with scholarships to travel all over America to go to College. Your comment is so ignorant as to actually be offensive. The 21 and 22 year olds drafted in American sports have been extremely well prepared for professional sport and they still fail to make the big time MOST of the time. Do you think poor kids in America go to University? Hell no. And then you say HALF the kids in Australia don't move for their education? Well, derr! Half the kids don't have to travel because they already live near Universities and the other half do friggen move because they live nowhere near university. How dumb are you?

The AFL Draft drags kids around the country who do not necessarily have any foundation or the family to support them with. Steven May got to where he is because of scholarships and his will to succeed, so he PAID to have his family follow him. Tom Lynch got where he is because of a silver spoon he still hasn't extricated from his arse. Your conclusions aren't firm, they are running down your leg. Indigenous players are far more likely to flame out. Why do you think that is? Bunch of sooks??

American sports and Australian sports are utterly different. If anything, the flaws in the AFL's drafting and free agency system need to be contrasted with the American system to see why emulating it doesn't work and how lessons can be learnt. This discussion topic is stupid and isn't respectful to the reasons why a lot of players want out after a short time. The draft age needs to be raised and a proper junior development competition, like the one Victoria is now expanding to Tasmania, NSW, ACT, NT and Queensland need to go National so that kids actually get exposure to playing country wide and the Academy zone system must eventually cover all 18 clubs so that the top regional talent remains in their zones and the remainder ultimately make up the AFL depth happy to play wherever they can get a game.
Click to expand...

OTT
 
SandyToes said:
This I completely agree with
In fact it should be compulsory
Draftees should have a minimum 4 year contract
They should then have a diploma or degree by the end of that contract all things being equal
I'm sure most of these kids are playing 6 hours of FIFA and Fortnite a day
Most of the College kids in the US enter the major leagues with some bogus "Sports Management" or "Biomechanics" diploma
But at least they've studied and understood concepts of learning and reading and research
Click to expand...
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head right there with the 4 year contract. In the NFL, first round draft picks get a 4 year contract with a fifth year option, which is extra incentive for clubs to covet first round picks. They also have a much sooner free agency, but basically your fifth year player is either eager for free agency or keen to sign a career contract by then. AFL is tricky because the kids are so young when they are drafted that the potential for them to fail is far higher.

For mine, the number one reason any young person should go to University or Tafe isn't the subject matter, it's the friendships and relationships you build at that time of your life. You might take two or three goes at finding the right course and career, but it's those experiences and the learning that comes with it that develops life skills.
 

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Johnny Bananas said:
I legitimately wonder how you get through the day if you're so perturbed by that comment. There are plenty of students from poor backgrounds in American universities, because even if they don't have HECS their scholarship system is much more widespread than it is here. There are plenty who aren't on scholarships either and survive by working two jobs while studying. The culture of Americans is different and simply doesn't coddle 18 year olds as much as we do (in our cities, anyway). I know of someone in America whose parents lived 2 minutes away from the uni campus they went to, and they still lived in a college dorm because that's their culture. And they weren't a millionaire. Even in Britain, people who aren't rich routinely move to a different city for university, even when they've grown up near a university.



Does your username reflect your age now, or in five years' time?

Now, back to discussing the draft. It's a possibility neither McLennan nor O Halloran last until 24, I'm guessing at least one trade up from the 20s will happen.
Click to expand...

I thought I'd drop in for a quick comment and maybe end this tenuous thread that links to trades, drafts etc.
Let's face it - American kids from birth are virtually encouraged, coerced and brainwashed into traveling across the country for their higher education, as far away as possible from their parents and live with strangers etc for years. Part of the reason why Yanks are a f...... up race. They are lucky to come home twice a year (Thanksgiving and Christmas) and so are naturally less inclined to catch Mummy Fever and want to come home. Aussies are lucky if they have to travel more than a few miles to attend Uni and for financial reasons, many opt to live with the oldies.

It therefore seems a fair thing to believe that American kids are less homesick (because of this indoctrination) than Aussie kids. Like it or lump it, we have a culture that encourages kids to stay closer to home and that flows over to the issues with AFL drafts and trades etc BUT that does not mean we shouldn't take the best players available and work like hell to keep them happy.

I also think it makes sense (as 17er suggests) to put in a 4 year contract term for the kids, similar to a college or Uni degree and then see how things pan out. Of course given the rigged state of affairs in AFL land, kinda doubt that will happen.

I for one just want this whole draft period over, Lukosius etc running around in a Suns outfit and pray to the footy gods for some luck and changes in fortune.
 
Sun Stormer said:
I thought I'd drop in for a quick comment and maybe end this tenuous thread that links to trades, drafts etc.
Let's face it - American kids from birth are virtually encouraged, coerced and brainwashed into traveling across the country for their higher education, as far away as possible from their parents and live with strangers etc for years. Part of the reason why Yanks are a f...... up race. They are lucky to come home twice a year (Thanksgiving and Christmas) and so are naturally less inclined to catch Mummy Fever and want to come home. Aussies are lucky if they have to travel more than a few miles to attend Uni and for financial reasons, many opt to live with the oldies.

It therefore seems a fair thing to believe that American kids are less homesick (because of this indoctrination) than Aussie kids. Like it or lump it, we have a culture that encourages kids to stay closer to home and that flows over to the issues with AFL drafts and trades etc BUT that does not mean we shouldn't take the best players available and work like hell to keep them happy.

I also think it makes sense (as 17er suggests) to put in a 4 year contract term for the kids, similar to a college or Uni degree and then see how things pan out. Of course given the rigged state of affairs in AFL land, kinda doubt that will happen.

I for one just want this whole draft period over, Lukosius etc running around in a Suns outfit and pray to the footy gods for some luck and changes in fortune.
Click to expand...
Same, same, but different. The East Coast urban experience for most kids is as you say, however, if you aren't from one of the 3 capital cities the chances are you've moved to at least one of them for education or work. I'm 42 and had to move from Southport to South Brisbane to go to Uni before transferring back to Griffith on the Gold Coast because they didn't have enough courses or places when I finished school 2kms up the road. People from the country never had regional Unis like they do now, so campus was full of country bumpkins living in the big city for the first time.

Gold Coast kids still move to Brisbane if their course isn't offered at Griffith, as do kids from places like the Sunshine Coast, Toowoomba, Rockhampton, Townsville, Cairns and regional areas even though they have Unis there. More kids go to Uni these days too and it isn't uncommon for kids to go interstate for the best courses and on scholarships. The main difference is that even though our country is almost as big as America, the population is way smaller and it is concentrated in a 2000km stretch that incidentally covers 14 of the 18 AFL teams and 14 if the 16 NRL teams. There are 43 Unis and 41 of them are in AFL States and you'd be amazed at how many students live far away from home.

It is also a myth that American parents intentionally send their kids "as far away as possible". In the western half of the country there are not that many major schools, but in the north-east there are dozens. Students have three reasons for their choice of Uni - scholarship/price, course type and location. Without a scholarship, they either can't afford to go or they go local. If their course isn't offered locally, they may go further afield. Of course, when choice is taken out of the equation they go wherever will accept them. If you're from California, you likely don't leave the State, but there are a dozen nearby states with either no Uni or limited options so Cali Unis are full of kids from all over. In the east, the place is lousy with campuses and whole town/suburbs are dominated by colleges. They have more than 12 times the population and most people live in the East.

Athletes and other exceptional students are far more likely to move Interstate in both Australia and the US. In Australia, kids often get dragged to Canberra at a very young age to the Institute of Sport. Soccer players get sent from pillar to post and overseas, often with an incomplete education because of all the travel. The AFL Draft really messes with these families and the Suns as a club know they have to do better.
 
Scotty_222 said:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/jordan-murdoch-set-to-head-to-the-suns-20181105-p50e49.html

We are looking at Nathan Freeman from the Saints as well
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Would be okay with Freeman actually. Worth a one year deal - if he can stay injury free he could build something pretty special based on VFL form and his few games at AFL level. If hamstring injuries persist, let him go after his first contract. Seemed to have finally maintained an injury free run at it. Was surprised he was let go
 

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barberbarbarian said:
Would be okay with Freeman actually. Worth a one year deal - if he can stay injury free he could build something pretty special based on VFL form and his few games at AFL level. If hamstring injuries persist, let him go after his first contract. Seemed to have finally maintained an injury free run at it. Was surprised he was let go
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Low risk, high reward - would you get him as a DFA or look to get on rookie list?
 
Scotty_222 said:
Supposedly.
I’d offer Freeman a rookie contract
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Freeman an interesting one.
VFL watchers were saying that he has lost all his pace which was his main attribute. What kind of player is he anymore? Think that 39 disposal game included 0 tackles and 2 contested possessions from memory.
 
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