Training 2018 IntraClub Thursday 22nd Feb at 7pm

[sr36]

So a 15 gamer who’s only just regaining confidence in his body isn’t up to the contested standard of a 50+ and 100+ gamer. I am just so shocked. Clearly he will struggle to make 50 games.
.

It's not that his work is currently below the standard of others. It's that he shows zero intent in this regard and generally looks to peel off from contests, which he could get away with if he used the ball aggressively, but he doesn't.

I really like some of his attributes, but really dislike his style of game. I'm just hoping that he can be reprogrammed.

 

[Kappa]

Same. McCarthy seemed the logical choice.

People wanted Lennon and Cripps too

 

[SchuPie]

People wanted Lennon and Cripps too

Unfortunately I was a Lennon man for 10 at the time which is why I’m not posting anything about this

 

[Soups]

Unfortunately I was a Lennon man for 10 at the time which is why I’m not posting anything about this

I think he was one of the ones we were said to be keen on as well. Glad that didn’t happen.

Merrett and Cripps big misses. Imagine if we had those two on our list.

 

[Apex36]

I think he was one of the ones we were said to be keen on as well. Glad that didn’t happen.

Merrett and Cripps big misses. Imagine if we had those two on our list.

It burns me that Merrett has become a star for Essendon given his family ties to Collingwood.

 

[ottoman]

Quite the opposite in fact. I’m opposed to all forms of violence.

Surely a slightly over enthusiastic hip and shoulder on Goddard is acceptable.

 

[northpie]

T

 

[northpie]

So a 15 gamer who’s only just regaining confidence in his body isn’t up to the contested standard of a 50+ and 100+ gamer. I am just so shocked. Clearly he will struggle to make 50 games.

At least you got that right.

He’s really not that far behind at all, and unbiased observers from other teams seem to think pretty highly of him. Perhaps what you think is an unbiased view is actually a common problem with Collingwood supporters, who write players off prematurely because they’re not instant stars.

^See, this is crap. I challenge you to find a post from even the most positive Scharenberg fan over the past 12-18 months saying he is going to be a superstar. Most acknowledge that his development has been hurt and he’ll probably never be the player we hoped he’d be when drafted, but at the same time he is perfectly capable of being a long term player.

Cut the condescending bullshit. I’m well aware of his contested ratios etc and I’ve already said multiple times in the past few pages that he needs to improve his contested work.

Apex
Getting more aggressive doesn't provide validation for your arguments.
Howe 27 Langdon 23 Shazz 22. Howe a lock for years meaning the other 2 probably fight for that med defender role going forward. If you have the view that Langdon is a superior option now from an output perspective, and going forward from a pace perspective,( which I do) Shazz is going to find it tuff to pull games gegardless of his and others' current game numbers.( given the two are age peers)
I think this has been acknowledged at the Club by attempts to improve Shazz' capacity to take on the key defensive roles.i think that is a genuine prospect for him in the future if his ball movement judgement is as good as everyone thinks.
It's laughable that you can ignore the raft of supporters who hold out superstar hopes for Shazz. Keep your head in the sand on that one.
I have not made an attempt to tear Shazz down rather lower expectations for him so the knockers out there stop picking on him
Condescending ? If you knew of those stats, why ignore them when criticising my view in the first place?
Pretty convenient ignoring of facts thatsupport my original entry, or you didn't really know them . Take your choice on that one.

I genuinely like reading your comments , agree and disagree with them from time to time, but never respond to them in the aggressive manner you take to anyone with view you don't agree with. Think about that and lighten up legend.

 

[northpie]

He finds where the ball is.

Averaging on 20 possessions per game shows he’s on the right track.

I just don’t get why Scharenberg seems to be one of our players that people seem to want to really get stuck into.

Seems a bit of a trend by some.

We have players on our list that seem are fair game to be “bagged” quite a bit. Eg Langdon, Scharenberg, Smith definitely and that little guy (my guilt is here too).

And some are sacred cows (to take this to the other extreme) that are basically “not allowed to be bagged as it were. Eg: Varcoe.

Sv it depends on your perception re Shaz
I would argue that anyone who tries to make a non emotive comment on his potential is howled down by his worshippers,one of which I know you are.
I don't know how to do those wink imogees but ale it thee rL The young man has overcome a huge amount of adversity to maintain his spot on the list and pay senior footy.

So a 15 gamer who’s only just regaining confidence in his body isn’t up to the contested standard of a 50+ and 100+ gamer. I am just so shocked. Clearly he will struggle to make 50 games.

At least you got that right.

He’s really not that far behind at all, and unbiased observers from other teams seem to think pretty highly of him. Perhaps what you think is an unbiased view is actually a common problem with Collingwood supporters, who write players off prematurely because they’re not instant stars.

^See, this is crap. I challenge you to find a post from even the most positive Scharenberg fan over the past 12-18 months saying he is going to be a superstar. Most acknowledge that his development has been hurt and he’ll probably never be the player we hoped he’d be when drafted, but at the same time he is perfectly capable of being a long term player.

Cut the condescending bullshit. I’m well aware of his contested ratios etc and I’ve already said multiple times in the past few pages that he needs to improve his contested work.

hahahahah

So a 15 gamer who’s only just regaining confidence in his body isn’t up to the contested standard of a 50+ and 100+ gamer. I am just so shocked. Clearly he will struggle to make 50 games.

At least you got that right.

He’s really not that far behind at all, and unbiased observers from other teams seem to think pretty highly of him. Perhaps what you think is an unbiased view is actually a common problem with Collingwood supporters, who write players off prematurely because they’re not instant stars.

^See, this is crap. I challenge you to find a post from even the most positive Scharenberg fan over the past 12-18 months saying he is going to be a superstar. Most acknowledge that his development has been hurt and he’ll probably never be the player we hoped he’d be when drafted, but at the same time he is perfectly capable of being a long term player.

Cut the condescending bullshit. I’m well aware of his contested ratios etc and I’ve already said multiple times in the past few pages that he needs to improve his contested work
You are getting more emotive .

 

[TradeDraft]

It burns me that Merrett has become a star for Essendon given his family ties to Collingwood.

Same thing might happen with Ed Richards as the Doggies

 

[Apex36]

Apex
Getting more aggressive doesn't provide validation for your arguments.
Howe 27 Langdon 23 Shazz 22. Howe a lock for years meaning the other 2 probably fight for that med defender role going forward. If you have the view that Langdon is a superior option now from an output perspective, and going forward from a pace perspective,( which I do) Shazz is going to find it tuff to pull games gegardless of his and others' current game numbers.( given the two are age peers)
I think this has been acknowledged at the Club by attempts to improve Shazz' capacity to take on the key defensive roles.i think that is a genuine prospect for him in the future if his ball movement judgement is as good as everyone thinks.
It's laughable that you can ignore the raft of supporters who hold out superstar hopes for Shazz. Keep your head in the sand on that one.
I have not made an attempt to tear Shazz down rather lower expectations for him so the knockers out there stop picking on him
Condescending ? If you knew of those stats, why ignore them when criticising my view in the first place?
Pretty convenient ignoring of facts thatsupport my original entry, or you didn't really know them . Take your choice on that one.

I genuinely like reading your comments , agree and disagree with them from time to time, but never respond to them in the aggressive manner you take to anyone with view you don't agree with. Think about that and lighten up legend.

It’s laughable that I ignore the raft of superstar hopers? Shouldn’t we all be hoping he turns in to a superstar? That was a very cute way of dodging my challenge to you to actually find some posts stating the kids going to be a ‘superstar’.

And I didn’t ignore any facts, but keep telling yourself I did. I simply don’t think his contested numbers are as concerning as you make them out to be given he was showing clear improvement in that area in the last 2-3 games of 2017.

 

[Apex36]

Same thing might happen with Ed Richards as the Doggies

Maybe. My hope is that he asks for a trade home at the end of next year though.

 

[Soups]

Maybe. My hope is that he asks for a trade home at the end of next year though.

I think we’d be silly not to be in his ear after two years if he hasn’t signed an extension.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Apex
Getting more aggressive doesn't provide validation for your arguments.
Howe 27 Langdon 23 Shazz 22. Howe a lock for years meaning the other 2 probably fight for that med defender role going forward. If you have the view that Langdon is a superior option now from an output perspective, and going forward from a pace perspective,( which I do) Shazz is going to find it tuff to pull games gegardless of his and others' current game numbers.( given the two are age peers)
I think this has been acknowledged at the Club by attempts to improve Shazz' capacity to take on the key defensive roles.i think that is a genuine prospect for him in the future if his ball movement judgement is as good as everyone thinks.
It's laughable that you can ignore the raft of supporters who hold out superstar hopes for Shazz. Keep your head in the sand on that one.
I have not made an attempt to tear Shazz down rather lower expectations for him so the knockers out there stop picking on him
Condescending ? If you knew of those stats, why ignore them when criticising my view in the first place?
Pretty convenient ignoring of facts thatsupport my original entry, or you didn't really know them . Take your choice on that one.

I genuinely like reading your comments , agree and disagree with them from time to time, but never respond to them in the aggressive manner you take to anyone with view you don't agree with. Think about that and lighten up legend.

Yeah Apex does tend to get a bit aggressive and personal if he disagrees. I do like his posts but avoid replying to them unless I really feel I have to.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Sv it depends on your perception re Shaz
I would argue that anyone who tries to make a non emotive comment on his potential is howled down by his worshippers,one of which I know you are.
I don't know how to do those wink imogees but ale it thee rL The young man has overcome a huge amount of adversity to maintain his spot on the list and pay senior footy.

hahahahah

I just don’t get why at times posters use a phrase like “worshipper” if some likes a player, or coach come to that?

Why can’t peole just like players sometimes even a lot without the whack on the way through?

Not sure it enhances the counter view. Just my two cents worth.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I think we’d be silly not to be in his ear after two years if he hasn’t signed an extension.

Only if he’s a good player

 

[Soups]

Only if he’s a good player

I think he’ll be a good player. Would have gone top 10 if he played the champs.

 

[Horaceg]

But isn't the upside limited by his lack of pace and hardness at the contest?

What I see is composure and poise and as he comes into his own these two traits I believe will make him standout.

Pendles isn’t the quickest and he hardened up over time too, I just see some similarities, not comparing player styles.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

What I see is composure and poise and as he comes into his own these two traits I believe will make him standout.

Pendles isn’t the quickest and he hardened up over time too, I just see some similarities, not comparing player styles.

Pendlebury was a good player from day one. Scharenberg is not in the same position.

 

[CFC2010]

Pendlebury was a good player from day one. Scharenberg is not in the same position.

Don’t compare apples and oranges TGG it’s fraught with danger.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Apex
Getting more aggressive doesn't provide validation for your arguments.
Howe 27 Langdon 23 Shazz 22. Howe a lock for years meaning the other 2 probably fight for that med defender role going forward. If you have the view that Langdon is a superior option now from an output perspective, and going forward from a pace perspective,( which I do) Shazz is going to find it tuff to pull games gegardless of his and others' current game numbers.( given the two are age peers)
I think this has been acknowledged at the Club by attempts to improve Shazz' capacity to take on the key defensive roles.i think that is a genuine prospect for him in the future if his ball movement judgement is as good as everyone thinks.
It's laughable that you can ignore the raft of supporters who hold out superstar hopes for Shazz. Keep your head in the sand on that one.
I have not made an attempt to tear Shazz down rather lower expectations for him so the knockers out there stop picking on him
Condescending ? If you knew of those stats, why ignore them when criticising my view in the first place?
Pretty convenient ignoring of facts thatsupport my original entry, or you didn't really know them . Take your choice on that one.

I genuinely like reading your comments , agree and disagree with them from time to time, but never respond to them in the aggressive manner you take to anyone with view you don't agree with. Think about that and lighten up legend.

I think the difference is about where people rate Langdon vs Shaz both in terms of ability and potential. (Also, I don't think its particularly fair to compare their performances in the intraclub, just going by the thread this is in, because they were given very different roles).
I agree on your take that Langdon is currently the superior player, and has been throughout their careers - but I think his potential is not as high Schaz's.

I think Langdon's peak is a poor man's Nick Maxwell. (not a criticism at all, and could be a 150-200 gamer as a regular in our 22 doing it). He is pretty good as a mid-sized defender, who is adequate (but flawed) as a 1:1 defender, but is very good at reading the play and getting those intercept marks - just pretty shaky with his disposal, especially when he tries to take risks (which he should just completely take out of his game). Now this is not a criticism of him, because he could make a very good career for himself - particularly if he is more disciplined with his disposal and stops turning it over in dangerous positions.

Now currently, I think Sharenberg is much better with his disposal and offensive decision making. He is behind him in the athletic department, and is behind him in intercept marking - im just not sure whether that has anything to do with his reading of the play, or whether it is just the athletic ability that is the difference here. Given that he has only played 15 games, and last year was probably just about getting his body back to "par", I am more optimistic about Shaz improving the gaps in his game, than I am about Langdon improving his (after 50 games and a few years of regular AFL footy).

Problem is, I think I said the same thing last year - the space is there for 1 of these guys (possibly both) to stamp himself in our best 22. 12 months later I don't think either has yet.
And as you say, playing Shaz more as that KPD might end up being a better way to utilise him.

 

[Horaceg]

Pendlebury was a good player from day one. Scharenberg is not in the same position.

The point there, you can’t compare how Pendlebury and Sharenberg came into the AFL. Sharenberg was an outstanding junior, came into the AFL under some duress with his feet, then the two knee reconstructions and he’s 15 games in, the guy can play football there’s no doubt. How far he can go is still up in the air however from my observations I believe he will live up to his predraft expectations for the reasons I stated. If I’m wrong, happy to put my hand up and say I got it wrong.

 

[left at home]

I think the difference is about where people rate Langdon vs Shaz both in terms of ability and potential. (Also, I don't think its particularly fair to compare their performances in the intraclub, just going by the thread this is in, because they were given very different roles).
I agree on your take that Langdon is currently the superior player, and has been throughout their careers - but I think his potential is not as high Schaz's.

I think Langdon's peak is a poor man's Nick Maxwell. (not a criticism at all, and could be a 150-200 gamer as a regular in our 22 doing it). He is pretty good as a mid-sized defender, who is adequate (but flawed) as a 1:1 defender, but is very good at reading the play and getting those intercept marks - just pretty shaky with his disposal, especially when he tries to take risks (which he should just completely take out of his game). Now this is not a criticism of him, because he could make a very good career for himself - particularly if he is more disciplined with his disposal and stops turning it over in dangerous positions.

Now currently, I think Sharenberg is much better with his disposal and offensive decision making. He is behind him in the athletic department, and is behind him in intercept marking - im just not sure whether that has anything to do with his reading of the play, or whether it is just the athletic ability that is the difference here. Given that he has only played 15 games, and last year was probably just about getting his body back to "par", I am more optimistic about Shaz improving the gaps in his game, than I am about Langdon improving his (after 50 games and a few years of regular AFL footy).

Problem is, I think I said the same thing last year - the space is there for 1 of these guys (possibly both) to stamp himself in our best 22. 12 months later I don't think either has yet.
And as you say, playing Shaz more as that KPD might end up being a better way to utilise him.

I think the coaches had stamped Langdon best 22 by bringing him back so quickly last season, with hardly any form to back it up
Sharenberg will have to to take his spot, will not be easy.or find another.
By the end of this season l hoping to see Sharenberg play like we hope he can.
But still some baby steps required, after all played just 15 games, which is not much to prove one self yet.

 

[THATSGOLD]

It burns me that Merrett has become a star for Essendon given his family ties to Collingwood.

He’s a bloody good player.

 

[THATSGOLD]

The point there, you can’t compare how Pendlebury and Sharenberg came into the AFL. Sharenberg was an outstanding junior, came into the AFL under some duress with his feet, then the two knee reconstructions and he’s 15 games in, the guy can play football there’s no doubt. How far he can go is still up in the air however from my observations I believe he will live up to his predraft expectations for the reasons I stated. If I’m wrong, happy to put my hand up and say I got it wrong.

I don’t think Scharenberg can ever reach the heights we had hoped for at pick 6 anymore. He’s a good ordinary loose man in defence. Worth a pick in the 30s or 40s but will never be worthy of going at 6 now.