Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Part 1 (continued in Part 2 - see OP for link)

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Mr_Plow

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We don't need depth players. We need to find players that will make us a top 8 team. If they can't make a top 8 team then why do we need them?

Wallis will add very little improvement to the team. If we are going for FA then go all out for a Gaff who will definitely improve the team.
The wise list managers target both ends of the list to expedite the process.

Target gun FA, for sure, but strengthen the overall profile of your list by improving the bottom half too.

Keeps the VFL squad competitive.

Townsend = foot soldier.
Prestia and Caddy = talented foot soldiers.
 

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RudyBlue

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The wise list managers target both ends of the list to expedite the process.

Target gun FA, for sure, but strengthen the overall profile of your list by improving the bottom half too.

Keeps the VFL squad competitive.

Townsend = foot soldier.
Prestia and Caddy = talented foot soldiers.
Oh boy I would love some Caddy and Prestia in our 22 right now
 

Farktherest

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Moneyball targets at the end of this year?

- Wallis (FA)
- Sproule (uncontracted)

Any younger guys (20-23) down the depth chart on stronger teams that could play a role or legitimately bolster our depth moving forward (i.e. a Lang type)?
Perryman isn't getting games for GWS atm. Only a second year player, has shown some good signs. Described as a defender who can play midfield.

I wonder if there are some GC and Brisbane youngsters who'd be open to coming back to VIC.
Ben Ainsworth would be nice. I haven't followed too closely but Will Brodie and Jack Scrimshaw don't seem to be getting many games. But obv these guys a former top 10 picks so aren't exactly 'moneyball'. They could be open to a move though.
Alex Witherden. Cedric Cox.

It's hard to pry away players from a premiership team but surely Richmond's cap is getting tight? We could manage to pinch someone like Shai Bolton or Corey Ellis.
 

HereComesJuddy

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We don't need depth players. We need to find players that will make us a top 8 team. If they can't make a top 8 team then why do we need them?

Wallis will add very little improvement to the team. If we are going for FA then go all out for a Gaff who will definitely improve the team.
unnamed.jpg
 

Arr0w

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Not sure we'll be able to change Arrow's mind...which is fine everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But it seems so obvious that this is the way to go though for the reasons you've stated...plus the importance of the big key forwards has diminished.

Another way to describe it is champion team > team of champions. Guys like Arrow just want to get best available no matter what and accumulate the most talented players we can...however i'd argue we're seeing more and more that team balance and structure is more important than individual talent. And that's where drafting a midfielder comes in.

Looking at Richmond's list outside of their well-known stars the list looks average on paper...but they are playing to a winning structure that works for them.

Given our obvious problem is we have too many tall, slow players and not enough mids and small forwards, i just don't see why people still want to draft a KPF with our precious first pick, especially when we will draft Ben SOS already. Plus out young KPF's will struggle to develop and have an impact if our midfield keeps struggling and starving them of good opportunities anyway.
Farktherest Blue_Fusion have dragged this over to List Management, as it is more to do with the entire list than just drafting for me.

Let me make a couple of points clear, as it seems to get constantly convoluted, with all the dissecting and re-quoting.
  • With where our list is at (rebuild), I believe the best way, is by drafting best available talent and trade/FA for needs
  • If a KPP and a midfielder are ranked within the same bracket, I would always take the KPP
(People need to stop focusing on Lukosuis V Rankine, it have nothing to do with it, as I even rate B King ahead of his brother and of the many midfielders)

I have never deviated from this mantra my entire football life, nor will I, as I believe it is the best way to rebuild a core group to come through together. The next phase, has slight amendments, all of which differ, so at this stage, I will not go through those options. Best Available - History (Even the last 15 years), shows, that clubs that have the strength to follow this course, reap the rewards, of sustained success. It is not about the type of player, just purely best available, while rebuilding a list, some clubs do it better than others. Our club is finally following this path, yet people are now disgruntled

A couple of years ago, I was hammered from pillar to post, regarding my rating of Will Brodie, admittedly, I did go too hard, which some people here pointed out and rightful so. Brodie seem to be the flavour of the board, was this due to him being the best available or purely an impatient want to get an inside mid, due to needs. Yet the outcome was different, with SOS taking best available (SPS) over needs, which he rectified with a better value pick a year later in Kennedy.

Without any doubt in my mind, SOS has taken best available in the last 3 draft periods, especially evident when drafting Macreadie and Kerr late in the draft, when the cry for midfielders was stronger than ever

Then there is an inference as to the "modern game" and "trends" Tigers do something slightly different (just a small piece of the total puzzle) and it is called a trend, rather than a fad. The same thing was said about the Dogs, a trend, yet we can now clearly see it was only a fad. The only trend which many are missing, over the last 10 or so years, is a sustained focus on players that are quicker/more agile (nothing to do with height),contested ball and playing best 22.

For some reason, while many voiced a want for the club to build from the ground up, they now want change, due to their own expectations not being met, thus labeling the rebuild as failure, or at the very least, not progressing as it should.

Lastly, in general terms, no one here knows a poster's background. What level they have played, coached or even if they have been involved in recruiting. I am sure many have also been involved in club administration. Perhaps we all need to be mindful and respectful when considering an opinion

I am sure, you or others will now dissect one aspect of this post, rather than considering it as a whole, which happens a fair bit unfortunately. But I urge you, if or when you do reply, reply to the facts, rather than putting your own spin on it
 
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ItsAllAboutMe

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Perryman isn't getting games for GWS atm. Only a second year player, has shown some good signs. Described as a defender who can play midfield.

I wonder if there are some GC and Brisbane youngsters who'd be open to coming back to VIC.
Ben Ainsworth would be nice. I haven't followed too closely but Will Brodie and Jack Scrimshaw don't seem to be getting many games. But obv these guys a former top 10 picks so aren't exactly 'moneyball'. They could be open to a move though.
Alex Witherden. Cedric Cox.

It's hard to pry away players from a premiership team but surely Richmond's cap is getting tight? We could manage to pinch someone like Shai Bolton or Corey Ellis.
I think we should be done with guys that were former top picks and are struggling for game time.. FFS if they cant get games at Brisbane or GCS what makes you think they will be good at Carlton.. Any new recruit that we bring in needs to be an established best 22 player that has shown they are capable at the level.
 

BrisbaneCFC

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Perryman isn't getting games for GWS atm. Only a second year player, has shown some good signs. Described as a defender who can play midfield.

I wonder if there are some GC and Brisbane youngsters who'd be open to coming back to VIC.
Ben Ainsworth would be nice. I haven't followed too closely but Will Brodie and Jack Scrimshaw don't seem to be getting many games. But obv these guys a former top 10 picks so aren't exactly 'moneyball'. They could be open to a move though.
Alex Witherden. Cedric Cox.

It's hard to pry away players from a premiership team but surely Richmond's cap is getting tight? We could manage to pinch someone like Shai Bolton or Corey Ellis.
I'm pretty certain GCS have locked away all their recent draft picks to three and four year deals. Think most of them are contracted to the end of 2020.
 

Jimmae

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Moneyball targets at the end of this year?

- Wallis (FA)
- Sproule (uncontracted)

Any younger guys (20-23) down the depth chart on stronger teams that could play a role or legitimately bolster our depth moving forward (i.e. a Lang type)?
Heaps. I punched out a list a few weeks back.

I wouldn't bother with Wallis though.

Perryman isn't getting games for GWS atm. Only a second year player, has shown some good signs. Described as a defender who can play midfield.

I wonder if there are some GC and Brisbane youngsters who'd be open to coming back to VIC.
Ben Ainsworth would be nice. I haven't followed too closely but Will Brodie and Jack Scrimshaw don't seem to be getting many games. But obv these guys a former top 10 picks so aren't exactly 'moneyball'. They could be open to a move though.
Alex Witherden. Cedric Cox.

It's hard to pry away players from a premiership team but surely Richmond's cap is getting tight? We could manage to pinch someone like Shai Bolton or Corey Ellis.
Scrimshaw would be the one I would go for out of those names, as I suspect he would be valued the least right now. That being said, they seem to be more interested in getting his attacking game going these days (though he's injured at the moment).

If that happens, none of those names would come cheaply except Perryman, who is a Docherty clone, not a midfielder.
 

SkyhorseTamer

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Felt like it was time for me to have a good look at the situation of our list and areas of need going forwards.

Rudimental depth chart - some players, especially the mids were hard to classify:
Starting with the defence;
Talls: Jones Rowe A. Silvagni Weitering Macreadie JGM
Tweeners: Marchbank Plowman Williamson O'Shea
Smalls: Docherty Simpson Byrne Mullett Cuningham Schumacher McDaid

Midfield:
Inside: Cripps E. Curnow Kennedy Graham
Hybrid: Fisher Lang Sps Dow
Outside: Murphy Thomas Kerridge O'Brien Polson Shaw
Ruck: Kreuzer, Phillips, Lobbe, TDK

Forwards:
Tall: Casboult, Mckay
Roaming: C. Curnow, J. Silvagni, Kerr
Small: Wright, Pickett, Lamb, Garlett, Lebois,

Key:
Developing - Effectively just under/ around 50 games and still youf
Star - Self explanatory
Near the end - Retirement, injury forced retirement, delisting

Observations:
- Holy **** there isn't much black there. We are thin on developed b grade soldiers. Really thin.

- The Defence: Going forward effectively 3 tall defenders, 3 Medium/ intercepting tweener types and most importantly, we actually aren't very deep at that small defender position. Projecting to the future we could lose simpson and byrne and only really have mullett to replace him. McDaid and Schumacher are a few years away and Cunners, whilst he has immense talent offensively, may not even end up being a half back and needs to show more appetite for the contest.

- The Midfield: We are in good hands on the inside, getting another big bodied mid to develop is a priority, although we've seen recently they are gettable later in the draft. See Worpel and Constable. Heck a lot of the best inside midfielders didn't go early in the draft.
- The Hybrid line has me salivating. A completely green depth chart. This is the area where we'll see the explosion out of stoppages, we need time here 'cohesion'. This is the group that drives scoring chains.
- Our outside midfield is thin, Kerridge deserves his spot on the list, he just shouldn't be so high on a depth chart. The growth of O'brien is seriously important for this football club and this way of looking at the list makes it exceedingly obvious why O'brien was the pick over some other popular names among fans... This group needs more investment. Happy to keep Kerridge, but I want him last on the list.
- The ruck group is nice if they're fit... Bringing in some competition for TDK once Lobbe is gone will be important but also vital if Phillips body gives up on him.

- The Forwards: We are thin. In every category. End of story.

Going forwards
It's fairly obvious this list still has plenty of holes and a lot of reliance on potential being realised.

Over the next two off seasons I'd expect to see ALL the players in pink gone and maybe a few of the others two.

With that in mind I'd be praying that our 2020 round 1 line up (2020 as that is the year I expect pressure to be on the club to have on field success)

FB: Williamson Weitering Marchbank
HB: Docherty Jones Need small
C: Fisher Dow O'Brien
HF: Pickett C. Curnow Need small
FF: Kerr Mckay Garlett
R: Kreuzer Cripps SPS
I/C: Kennedy Lang Murphy Cuningham

Think that pretty comfortably shows what our biggest needs are..
- Best player available. We are lacking star power there. Even if some players come on more than expected.
- Smalls at both ends of the ground.
- Big bodied midfield developing in the twos
- Goal scoring mids

Any draft strategy that doesn't involve taking the best player available at the top of the next draft is ludicrous. We are absolutely relying on big Harry to become a star forward. That is seriously risky, as is relying on Weitering/ Macreadie developing brilliantly. It never hurts to have competition for spots. We need more all over the ground.
 

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Arr0w

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Felt like it was time for me to have a good look at the situation of our list and areas of need going forwards.

Rudimental depth chart - some players, especially the mids were hard to classify:
Starting with the defence;
Talls: Jones Rowe A. Silvagni Weitering Macreadie JGM
Tweeners: Marchbank Plowman Williamson O'Shea
Smalls: Docherty Simpson Byrne Mullett Cuningham Schumacher McDaid

Midfield:
Inside: Cripps E. Curnow Kennedy Graham
Hybrid: Fisher Lang Sps Dow
Outside: Murphy Thomas Kerridge O'Brien Polson Shaw
Ruck: Kreuzer, Phillips, Lobbe, TDK

Forwards:
Tall: Casboult, Mckay
Roaming: C. Curnow, J. Silvagni, Kerr
Small: Wright, Pickett, Lamb, Garlett, Lebois,

Key:
Developing - Effectively just under/ around 50 games and still youf
Star - Self explanatory
Near the end - Retirement, injury forced retirement, delisting

Observations:
- Holy **** there isn't much black there. We are thin on developed b grade soldiers. Really thin.

- The Defence: Going forward effectively 3 tall defenders, 3 Medium/ intercepting tweener types and most importantly, we actually aren't very deep at that small defender position. Projecting to the future we could lose simpson and byrne and only really have mullett to replace him. McDaid and Schumacher are a few years away and Cunners, whilst he has immense talent offensively, may not even end up being a half back and needs to show more appetite for the contest.

- The Midfield: We are in good hands on the inside, getting another big bodied mid to develop is a priority, although we've seen recently they are gettable later in the draft. See Worpel and Constable. Heck a lot of the best inside midfielders didn't go early in the draft.
- The Hybrid line has me salivating. A completely green depth chart. This is the area where we'll see the explosion out of stoppages, we need time here 'cohesion'. This is the group that drives scoring chains.
- Our outside midfield is thin, Kerridge deserves his spot on the list, he just shouldn't be so high on a depth chart. The growth of O'brien is seriously important for this football club and this way of looking at the list makes it exceedingly obvious why O'brien was the pick over some other popular names among fans... This group needs more investment. Happy to keep Kerridge, but I want him last on the list.
- The ruck group is nice if they're fit... Bringing in some competition for TDK once Lobbe is gone will be important but also vital if Phillips body gives up on him.

- The Forwards: We are thin. In every category. End of story.

Going forwards
It's fairly obvious this list still has plenty of holes and a lot of reliance on potential being realised.

Over the next two off seasons I'd expect to see ALL the players in pink gone and maybe a few of the others two.

With that in mind I'd be praying that our 2020 round 1 line up (2020 as that is the year I expect pressure to be on the club to have on field success)

FB: Williamson Weitering Marchbank
HB: Docherty Jones Need small
C: Fisher Dow O'Brien
HF: Pickett C. Curnow Need small
FF: Kerr Mckay Garlett
R: Kreuzer Cripps SPS
I/C: Kennedy Lang Murphy Cuningham

Think that pretty comfortably shows what our biggest needs are..
- Best player available. We are lacking star power there. Even if some players come on more than expected.
- Smalls at both ends of the ground.
- Big bodied midfield developing in the twos
- Goal scoring mids

Any draft strategy that doesn't involve taking the best player available at the top of the next draft is ludicrous. We are absolutely relying on big Harry to become a star forward. That is seriously risky, as is relying on Weitering/ Macreadie developing brilliantly. It never hurts to have competition for spots. We need more all over the ground.
Great analysis

Also shows how lean we are with KPD'S under 25, despite everyone suggesting we have more than enough options and especially given i see Macreadie playing a different role
 

Metalcrusher

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But but but we are too tall ........ too many KPP's ....... too many HBF defenders ....... but but but .....

On a serious note well put together SHT!

Certainly puts the holes in perspective. Also gives credence to draft BEST available. Although I would not be remiss to offer up our Pick 1 2019 for another couple of stabs in the top 25 end of this years draft.

Could give us 5 shots at the top 35 in this draft, with two of those being in the top 15 .....
 
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CJMB

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Felt like it was time for me to have a good look at the situation of our list and areas of need going forwards.

Rudimental depth chart - some players, especially the mids were hard to classify:
Starting with the defence;
Talls: Jones Rowe A. Silvagni Weitering Macreadie JGM
Tweeners: Marchbank Plowman Williamson O'Shea
Smalls: Docherty Simpson Byrne Mullett Cuningham Schumacher McDaid

Midfield:
Inside: Cripps E. Curnow Kennedy Graham
Hybrid: Fisher Lang Sps Dow
Outside: Murphy Thomas Kerridge O'Brien Polson Shaw
Ruck: Kreuzer, Phillips, Lobbe, TDK

Forwards:
Tall: Casboult, Mckay
Roaming: C. Curnow, J. Silvagni, Kerr
Small: Wright, Pickett, Lamb, Garlett, Lebois,

Key:
Developing - Effectively just under/ around 50 games and still youf
Star - Self explanatory
Near the end - Retirement, injury forced retirement, delisting

Observations:
- Holy **** there isn't much black there. We are thin on developed b grade soldiers. Really thin.

- The Defence: Going forward effectively 3 tall defenders, 3 Medium/ intercepting tweener types and most importantly, we actually aren't very deep at that small defender position. Projecting to the future we could lose simpson and byrne and only really have mullett to replace him. McDaid and Schumacher are a few years away and Cunners, whilst he has immense talent offensively, may not even end up being a half back and needs to show more appetite for the contest.

- The Midfield: We are in good hands on the inside, getting another big bodied mid to develop is a priority, although we've seen recently they are gettable later in the draft. See Worpel and Constable. Heck a lot of the best inside midfielders didn't go early in the draft.
- The Hybrid line has me salivating. A completely green depth chart. This is the area where we'll see the explosion out of stoppages, we need time here 'cohesion'. This is the group that drives scoring chains.
- Our outside midfield is thin, Kerridge deserves his spot on the list, he just shouldn't be so high on a depth chart. The growth of O'brien is seriously important for this football club and this way of looking at the list makes it exceedingly obvious why O'brien was the pick over some other popular names among fans... This group needs more investment. Happy to keep Kerridge, but I want him last on the list.
- The ruck group is nice if they're fit... Bringing in some competition for TDK once Lobbe is gone will be important but also vital if Phillips body gives up on him.

- The Forwards: We are thin. In every category. End of story.

Going forwards
It's fairly obvious this list still has plenty of holes and a lot of reliance on potential being realised.

Over the next two off seasons I'd expect to see ALL the players in pink gone and maybe a few of the others two.

With that in mind I'd be praying that our 2020 round 1 line up (2020 as that is the year I expect pressure to be on the club to have on field success)

FB: Williamson Weitering Marchbank
HB: Docherty Jones Need small
C: Fisher Dow O'Brien
HF: Pickett C. Curnow Need small
FF: Kerr Mckay Garlett
R: Kreuzer Cripps SPS
I/C: Kennedy Lang Murphy Cuningham

Think that pretty comfortably shows what our biggest needs are..
- Best player available. We are lacking star power there. Even if some players come on more than expected.
- Smalls at both ends of the ground.
- Big bodied midfield developing in the twos
- Goal scoring mids

Any draft strategy that doesn't involve taking the best player available at the top of the next draft is ludicrous. We are absolutely relying on big Harry to become a star forward. That is seriously risky, as is relying on Weitering/ Macreadie developing brilliantly. It never hurts to have competition for spots. We need more all over the ground.
Great post. (Also Arrow’s longer one a few before this too).

Looking at the 2020 team there and tend to agree. Who know me how Murph will be daring in 2 years though.

Agree on draft best available. Will always be able to top up through trade with players like Marchbank/Kennedy/Lang/etc who might want to try their hand elsewhere. Perhaps over the next year or two we can pick up a Brodie/Perryman/Ainsworth/Setterfield/etc or two for reasonable value to add to the squad.

In the mean time just keep drafting the best available and try and lose the older deck chairs by replacing them with younger, more talented kids who are going to progress and improve.




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Blue_Fusion

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Farktherest Blue_Fusion have dragged this over to List Management, as it is more to do with the entire list than just drafting for me.

Let me make a couple of points clear, as it seems it get constantly convoluted, with all the dissecting and re-quoting.
  • With where our list is at (rebuild), I believe the best way, is by drafting best available talent and trade/FA for needs
  • If a KPP and a midfielder are ranked within the same bracket, I would always take the KPP
(People need to stop focusing on Lukosuis V Rankine, it have nothing to do with it, as I even rate B King ahead of his brother and of many midfielders)

I have never deviated from this mantra my entire football life, nor will I, as I believe it is the best way to rebuild a core group to come through together. The next phase, has slight amendments, all of which differ, so at this stage, I will not go through those options. Best Available - History (Even the last 15 years), shows, that clubs that have the strength to follow this course, reap the rewards, of sustained success. It is not about the type of player, just purely best available, while rebuilding a list, some clubs do it better than others. Our club is finally following this path, yet people are now disgruntled
Well nobody really wants you to change your thinking... at least, I don't anyway. Believe whatever you want, just don't force it onto others.

You ignore that the game has evolved during your entire football life. It's exactly like I said to you, too much old fashioned thinking.

The game has changed. Understand that. It is WAY more defensive than it ever was and the tall key forwards have been mitigated as a result.

You either move with the times or you get left behind.

Were Geelong's father sons also coincidentally the best available??

Or the Hawks with all of their priority picks? Pretty good chances that most of those very early picks would turn out to be premiership heroes hey? Was Sammy Mitchell best available? Schwab thought he was too slow and only took the chance on him because he was part of Box Hill. Montagna was the next pick. Dane Swan later on in that draft iirc...

You want sustained success, start hoping that the club is thinking about how to get elite midfielders into our squad.

Who's disgruntled?

A couple of years ago, I was hammered from pillar to post, regarding my rating of Will Brodie, admittedly, I did go too hard, which some people here pointed out and rightful so. Brodie seem to be the flavour of the board, was this due to him being the best available or purely an impatient want to get an inside mid, due to needs. Yet the outcome was different, with SOS taking best available (SPS) over needs, which he rectified with a better value pick a year later in Kennedy.
SPS was rated as a potential #1 pick by many too. Just because some on here rated him the best doesn't mean SOS ever did. Brodie was rated around #1 by most boards not just ours...

I'll wait until Kennedy actually shows something before I start singing his praises.

Without any doubt in my mind, SOS has taken best available in the last 3 draft periods, especially evident when drafting Macreadie and Kerr late in the draft, when the cry for midfielders was stronger than ever
Give it a rest. Kerr was taken with pick 65. I'm dead certain the club weren't going to bank their hopes on a pick that late to come good at AFL level. Macreadie - we didn't really have many decent mids left at around his pick either. How many picks post 45 in recent years come good at AFL level? What's the percentage? They're more of a pick in hope or maybe they'll be decent backup when our best players go down.

And the cry for mids wasn't stronger than ever back then. After losing Gibbs and with Murphy clearly well past it, it has become stronger than ever now...

Then there is an inference as to the "modern game" and "trends" Tigers do something slightly different (just a small piece of the total puzzle) and it is called a trend, rather than a fad. The same thing was said about the Dogs, a trend, yet we can now clearly see it was only a fad. The only trend which many are missing, over the last 10 or so years, is a sustained focus on players that are quicker/more agile (nothing to do with height),contested ball and playing best 22.
We all hate the Tigers, but they won last year's flag and at the moment are looking to be in best position to win it again this year.

But it's not only Richmond's trend or fad or whatever you want to call it. The Cats won 3 flags all without even one gun key forward...

Dogs didn't have gun tall forwards during 2016. Boyd played his best on grand final day. Didn't do that much before then.

Hawks lose Buddy, no problem, still win 2 flags in a row with lower rated tall forwards.

We've won the contested possession battle the last 2 weeks. Still didn't win the game. Because we're too damn slow. Soon as the ball hit the deck we were ******.

Let's add two more KPF's? No thanks.

For some reason, while many voiced a want for the club to build from the ground up, they now want change, due to their own expectations not being met, thus labeling the rebuild as failure, or at the very least, not progressing as it should.
Who is labeling the rebuild as a failure? Can't do that until the newly recruited players reach their mid 20's and we're still nowhere near it. Then one could realistically label the rebuild as a failure. No one can right now though, it's far too early...

Lastly, in general terms, no one here knows a poster's background. What level they have played, coached or even if they have been involved in recruiting. I am sure many have also been involved in club administration. Perhaps we all need to be mindful and respectful when considering an opinion

I am sure, you or others will now dissect one aspect of this post, rather than considering it as a whole, which happens a fair bit unfortunately. But I urge you, if or when you do reply, reply to the facts, rather than putting your own spin on it
You've been responding to my posts with nothing but this >> :D

And you expect me to take you seriously?

You act like things don't bother you, but for some reason they really get under your skin. Just chill, don't get so upset when someone counters your thoughts with their own. Could you imagine this place if everybody was on the same page regarding every single thing? It would be a borefest.

If you want to keep the same thinking for 25-30 years of football even though the game has clearly changed, you're welcome to. I'll just keep using logic and change my thoughts based on the evolution of the game.
 

Stamos

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The Cats won 3 flags all without even one gun key forward...

Dogs didn't have gun tall forwards during 2016. Boyd played his best on grand final day. Didn't do that much before then.

Hawks lose Buddy, no problem, still win 2 flags in a row with lower rated tall forwards.
Um, think you might be ignoring 2011 when Hawkins (who was a gun key forward) was BOG.
And also had lost Ablett the previous off-season.
 

Arr0w

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Well nobody really wants you to change your thinking... at least, I don't anyway. Believe whatever you want, just don't force it onto others.

You ignore that the game has evolved during your entire football life. It's exactly like I said to you, too much old fashioned thinking.

The game has changed. Understand that. It is WAY more defensive than it ever was and the tall key forwards have been mitigated as a result.

You either move with the times or you get left behind.

Were Geelong's father sons also coincidentally the best available??

Or the Hawks with all of their priority picks? Pretty good chances that most of those very early picks would turn out to be premiership heroes hey? Was Sammy Mitchell best available? Schwab thought he was too slow and only took the chance on him because he was part of Box Hill. Montagna was the next pick. Dane Swan later on in that draft iirc...

You want sustained success, start hoping that the club is thinking about how to get elite midfielders into our squad.

Who's disgruntled?



SPS was rated as a potential #1 pick by many too. Just because some on here rated him the best doesn't mean SOS ever did. Brodie was rated around #1 by most boards not just ours...

I'll wait until Kennedy actually shows something before I start singing his praises.



Give it a rest. Kerr was taken with pick 65. I'm dead certain the club weren't going to bank their hopes on a pick that late to come good at AFL level. Macreadie - we didn't really have many decent mids left at around his pick either. How many picks post 45 in recent years come good at AFL level? What's the percentage? They're more of a pick in hope or maybe they'll be decent backup when our best players go down.

And the cry for mids wasn't stronger than ever back then. After losing Gibbs and with Murphy clearly well past it, it has become stronger than ever now...



We all hate the Tigers, but they won last year's flag and at the moment are looking to be in best position to win it again this year.

But it's not only Richmond's trend or fad or whatever you want to call it. The Cats won 3 flags all without even one gun key forward...

Dogs didn't have gun tall forwards during 2016. Boyd played his best on grand final day. Didn't do that much before then.

Hawks lose Buddy, no problem, still win 2 flags in a row with lower rated tall forwards.

We've won the contested possession battle the last 2 weeks. Still didn't win the game. Because we're too damn slow. Soon as the ball hit the deck we were ******.

Let's add two more KPF's? No thanks.



Who is labeling the rebuild as a failure? Can't do that until the newly recruited players reach their mid 20's and we're still nowhere near it. Then one could realistically label the rebuild as a failure. No one can right now though, it's far too early...



You've been responding to my posts with nothing but this >> :D

And you expect me to take you seriously?

You act like things don't bother you, but for some reason they really get under your skin. Just chill, don't get so upset when someone counters your thoughts with their own. Could you imagine this place if everybody was on the same page regarding every single thing? It would be a borefest.

If you want to keep the same thinking for 25-30 years of football even though the game has clearly changed, you're welcome to. I'll just keep using logic and change my thoughts based on the evolution of the game.

You have missed every single point Blue, but that seems to be a given for you. Unfortunately rather than accepting the facts you spin it to suit your own agenda. Think the best thing for you and I to reassess this at the end of the year, after the GF, where we can reassess these so called trends and after the trade/draft period
 

HARKER

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Great analysis

Also shows how lean we are with KPD'S under 25, despite everyone suggesting we have more than enough options and especially given i see Macreadie playing a different role
Why would Macreadie play a different role though?
I hear what Bolton was getting at, but even he has back-flipped in recent months in now wanting settle players to one post.
That talk of players playing multiple roles has pretty much been put under lock and key for now.

It doesn't matter for players being under 25 but right now we have the Jones, Weitering, Macreadie and Marchbank capable of taking on key position back posts, for years to come and we can't just keep throwing darts at KPD's with premium picks. We have to develop better. We did take JGM, but fair to say it's going to be tough for him to make a come-back in the next few weeks after being on the list for three years.

Let's throw the darts at mids and get proper development into our KPD's in the meantime.
 

Blue_Fusion

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You have missed every single point Blue, but that seems to be a given for you. Unfortunately rather than accepting the facts you spin it to suit your own agenda. Think the best thing for you and I to reassess this at the end of the year, after the GF, where we can reassess these so called trends and after the trade/draft period
Not really. You haven't even read what I wrote.
 

Blue_Fusion

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Why would Macreadie play a different role though?
I hear what Bolton was getting at, but even he has back-flipped in recent months in now wanting settle players to one post.
That talk of players playing multiple roles has pretty much been put under lock and key for now.

It doesn't matter for players being under 25 but right now we have the Jones, Weitering, Macreadie and Marchbank capable of taking on key position back posts, for years to come and we can't just keep throwing darts at KPD's with premium picks. We have to develop better. We did take JGM, but fair to say it's going to be tough for him to make a come-back in the next few weeks after being on the list for three years.

Let's throw the darts at mids and get proper development into our KPD's in the meantime.
Nailed it.

They're stressing over our KPD stocks when it's clear as daylight our midfield needs the most improvement.
 

Cripps17

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You have missed every single point Blue, but that seems to be a given for you. Unfortunately rather than accepting the facts you spin it to suit your own agenda. Think the best thing for you and I to reassess this at the end of the year, after the GF, where we can reassess these so called trends and after the trade/draft period
You constantly refer to your opinions as fact, and thus think there's no alternative viewpoint. It may be very well informed but it's not fact.
 
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