Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Part 1 (continued in Part 2 - see OP for link)

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Cripps17

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Why would Macreadie play a different role though?
I hear what Bolton was getting at, but even he has back-flipped in recent months in now wanting settle players to one post.
That talk of players playing multiple roles has pretty much been put under lock and key for now.
We've been trying it since Malthouse yet when has it been a proven method for any team. We've had a few ex players come out and lament that they couldn't settle in a position.

Throwing around players, especially young players, should be reserved as a last resort only. I just don't understand the logic of starting a Weitering up forward when we have McKay and Kerr in reserves. If we must move players around, do it once they've excelled in their own craft first (e.g. Cripps).
 

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Arr0w

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Why would Macreadie play a different role though?
I hear what Bolton was getting at, but even he has back-flipped in recent months in now wanting settle players to one post.
That talk of players playing multiple roles has pretty much been put under lock and key for now.

It doesn't matter for players being under 25 but right now we have the Jones, Weitering, Macreadie and Marchbank capable of taking on key position back posts, for years to come and we can't just keep throwing darts at KPD's with premium picks. We have to develop better. We did take JGM, but fair to say it's going to be tough for him to make a come-back in the next few weeks after being on the list for three years.

Let's throw the darts at mids and get proper development into our KPD's in the meantime.
Of course development is important, but I am not worried about the now, I have always been interested in how we continue to evolve through list management. The club has finally moved away from the short term and concentrating on the long game. Jones is a vital component in what we want to achieve. After him, we have Weitering and Macreadie, who I believe has strong attributes to play further up the ground, but let's say he remains a KPD. Marchbank is a 3rd tall and IMO, will always be so, along the lines of a Lever type. That to me is thin, not for the now.

Not sure where this throwing darts comes from, surely we have seen enough of SOS's mantra, that there is more strategy behind selections.

I have never said, don't draft mids, ever. The trade/draft period will once again, be balanced as it has been over the last 3 years, of mids and talls
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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Um, think you might be ignoring 2011 when Hawkins (who was a gun key forward) was BOG.
And also had lost Ablett the previous off-season.
Mooney was also an AA during one of those seasons.
Hawthorn won 2/4 of their flags with Buddy. Roughead was a gun still. Hawthorn also used picks 2,5,6,6 on KPF's and still found midfielders.
Going on what happened before and after I would suggest Bulldogs was a fluke and not much can really be learnt from them but they still played a tall side.
 

Blue_Fusion

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Um, think you might be ignoring 2011 when Hawkins (who was a gun key forward) was BOG.
And also had lost Ablett the previous off-season.
Hawkins played well on grand final day, but I wouldn't consider him a gun key forward even back then. He's benefited greatly from the midfield he's had. Soon as the Cats midfield died down a bit, his impact was lowered.

As for Ablett, they were that well covered with talent and depth in the middle, it wasn't as big of an impact. Bartel, Selwood, Corey, Kelly, S.Johnson, Chapman, Ling. It's scary how good that midfield was even without Ablett. Who'd the Hawks have after losing Franklin? Roughead, Gunston and Hale. It's obviously still very good, but if you ask anyone which group they'd rather have, they'd go the Cats mids every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
 

Blue_Fusion

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Read every line Blue, as I said, you keep twisting what people post to suit your own narrative. Even when facts are presented, you prefer to palm it off as something completely different. It has been fun and humourise, enjoyed every moment
No you didn't. And there's no twisting at all.

You've cacked on about disgruntled supporters who are labeling the rebuild a failure. I said you couldn't realistically do that at such an early stage. Is that twisting? Nope. Just you talking shit.
 

Arr0w

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Hawkins played well on grand final day, but I wouldn't consider him a gun key forward even back then. He's benefited greatly from the midfield he's had. Soon as the Cats midfield died down a bit, his impact was lowered.

As for Ablett, they were that well covered with talent and depth in the middle, it wasn't as big of an impact. Bartel, Selwood, Corey, Kelly, S.Johnson, Chapman, Ling. It's scary how good that midfield was even without Ablett. Who'd the Hawks have after losing Franklin? Roughead, Gunston and Hale. It's obviously still very good, but if you ask anyone which group they'd rather have, they'd go the Cats mids every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
So the Hawks won 3 flags with 3 tall forwards? Cats won 3 flags with 3 tall forwards? Someone better tell Scoot and Clarkson that their way of thinking is outdated ;)
 
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I feel we are covered well for kpd when I look at other lists. Don't care if one of the king boys is a good defender...Don't want to spend a good pick on him.

When we say best available they are marginal calls at best. History proves this.

For list balance and gameday structure mid or hff first. Rankin or a mid. If luko is exceptional, then I accept that decision. If the def king is exceptional....Don't want.
 

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Blue_Fusion

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No, that is not correct, I am very clear when referring to fact or opinion. More than happy you go back through all my posts
It is correct. You hate when someone has a differing opinion. You go on a spiel like as if you know better every time.

I'm still waiting for you to give me a team that's won a flag with 3 gun tall forwards from the last 15 years apart from Hawks in 08?
 

Arr0w

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No you didn't. And there's no twisting at all.

You've cacked on about disgruntled supporters who are labeling the rebuild a failure. I said you couldn't realistically do that at such an early stage. Is that twisting? Nope. Just you talking shit.
Thats it? One line? Please mate, as I said in the original post

"I am sure, you or others will now dissect one aspect of this post, rather than considering it as a whole, which happens a fair bit unfortunately. But I urge you, if or when you do reply, reply to the facts, rather than putting your own spin on it"

And the most surprising aspect, many have recently posted similar views regarding best available, I guess many of us are out of touch to you
 

Arr0w

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It is correct. You hate when someone has a differing opinion. You go on a spiel like as if you know better every time.

I'm still waiting for you to give me a team that's won a flag with 3 gun tall forwards from the last 15 years apart from Hawks in 08?
See again you completely misinterpret a post

Some suggested I pass off an opinion as fact, which I don't, I am very mindful of both.

I state "3 tall forwards" and you twist it to "3 gun forwards". Can you not see what you do?

Blue, it was fun to start with, but it is really growing old
 

Blue_Fusion

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Thats it? One line? Please mate, as I said in the original post

"I am sure, you or others will now dissect one aspect of this post, rather than considering it as a whole, which happens a fair bit unfortunately. But I urge you, if or when you do reply, reply to the facts, rather than putting your own spin on it"

And the most surprising aspect, many have recently posted similar views regarding best available, I guess many of us are out of touch to you
Best available is subjective mate. Don't forget that. Rankine has been as dominant a mid as Lukosius has as a key forward.

And it's not just one line. You just didn't read it properly. BTW you said every single point, if it's not every single point then don't say it.
 

Arr0w

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Best available is subjective mate. Don't forget that. Rankine has been as dominant a mid as Lukosius has as a key forward.

And it's not just one line. You just didn't read it properly. BTW you said every single point, if it's not every single point then don't say it.
Blue I have never disputed that Rankine is a talent, ever

You ever questioned/doubted recruiters rating Lukosius the number one pick, that is bewildering Blue
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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Hawkins played well on grand final day, but I wouldn't consider him a gun key forward even back then. He's benefited greatly from the midfield he's had. Soon as the Cats midfield died down a bit, his impact was lowered.

As for Ablett, they were that well covered with talent and depth in the middle, it wasn't as big of an impact. Bartel, Selwood, Corey, Kelly, S.Johnson, Chapman, Ling. It's scary how good that midfield was even without Ablett. Who'd the Hawks have after losing Franklin? Roughead, Gunston and Hale. It's obviously still very good, but if you ask anyone which group they'd rather have, they'd go the Cats mids every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Yet even with Geelong having a superior midfield and backline, Hawthorn achieved more with the better forward line.
 

Blue_Fusion

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See again you completely misinterpret a post

Some suggested I pass off an opinion as fact, which I don't, I am very mindful of both.

I state "3 tall forwards" and you twist it to "3 gun forwards". Can you not see what you do?

Blue, it was fun to start with, but it is really growing old
But we have 3 tall forwards? So why do you want another? We have Charlie, Harry, Casboult(for now), Kerr, we won't skip out on Ben. TDK can go forward.

2 of them are going really well. It would be stupid to ignore our midfield woes. We can't hope to woo free agents, we haven't got much trade value, where are they going to come from if not the draft? Later picks? Sorry, but that's low percentage and I'm not interested in that.
 

Blue_Fusion

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Blue I have never disputed that Rankine is a talent, ever

You ever questioned/doubted recruiters rating Lukosius the number one pick, that is bewildering Blue
Ok. Send me a link which shows every recruiter rating Lukosius the best. You want to talk facts, then provide them and I'll shut up.
 

Stamos

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Hawkins played well on grand final day, but I wouldn't consider him a gun key forward even back then. He's benefited greatly from the midfield he's had. Soon as the Cats midfield died down a bit, his impact was lowered.

As for Ablett, they were that well covered with talent and depth in the middle, it wasn't as big of an impact. Bartel, Selwood, Corey, Kelly, S.Johnson, Chapman, Ling. It's scary how good that midfield was even without Ablett. Who'd the Hawks have after losing Franklin? Roughead, Gunston and Hale. It's obviously still very good, but if you ask anyone which group they'd rather have, they'd go the Cats mids every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
So, Geelong had better mids and Hawthorn better forwards? And Geelong lost a gun that they were better able to cover than the gun that the Hawks lost?
But Hawthorn were more successful...
 

Arr0w

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But we have 3 tall forwards? So why do you want another? We have Charlie, Harry, Casboult(for now), Kerr, we won't skip out on Ben. TDK can go forward.

2 of them are going really well. It would be stupid to ignore our midfield woes. We can't hope to woo free agents, we haven't got much trade value, where are they going to come from if not the draft? Later picks? Sorry, but that's low percentage and I'm not interested in that.
Mate again, stop and think about what I posted

I couldn't give a stuff if it is a tall or a small

My statement was "best available"

By the way, you talk up the likelihood of our KPF's going well, yet you can't afford the same luxury of our developing mids? Try some consistency Blue, it will suit the agenda
 
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