Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Part 1 (continued in Part 2 - see OP for link)

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I'm confused now. What exactly has Kennedy shown? Swap him with LOB at least. Then you say McKay hasn't shown anything. LOL McKay has shown more than Dow and Kennedy combined in only 4 games...

Our forward line is in worse nick, but not because of the lack of talls. We have shit medium and small forwards minus Pickett who is out for a while now.

That's why we need to bring in as many quality mids as we can. That way we can afford to rotate Rankine and Cripps in our forward line.

If I can list more (or approx equal amount of) under 22 kpf than mids on our list we are in MASSIVE trouble for years to come mate.
This
 

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CJMB

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What you say is true about us losing a fair few KPP's soon, one thing i'll point out though is that i think it's important for us to spread out the age of our KPP's a little more.

Ultimately we prob don't want any more than 3 KPF's max and 4 KPD's max going forward in the senior 22.

Currently we have so many talls on our list both our AFL and VFL teams are slow and imbalanced, while we don't have enough mids to fill the positions available...that's an issue. Can't ignore the fact that if we have so many key talls around the same age in the one team, with a midfield that is struggling, it harms the development for ALL OF THEM.
Odds are JGM and O'Shea* gone this year, ASOS and Rowe this year or next and Levi at the end of 2019. Who knows what the future holds for Jones. That's 5 or 6 off the list over the next 2 years and perhaps we add 2 or 3 talls through the draft (BSOS, maybe a Lukosius/King/smokey/project player?) in that time to replenish our stocks a little to keep the list balance right.
*Not really KPP but included anyway.

As for our 3 main talls at each end and their age, I don't think it'll be too bad in the future.

Last week we played Levi (100), Charlie (33) & Harry (4) up forward for an average of 46 games. Come 2020 we could be looking at Charlie (70), McKay (40) and TDK/Kerr/BSOS/Lukosius/King/etc (15?) for 42 games average but a more even spread.

Down back we had Jones (101), Rowe (84) and Marchbank (27) for 71 games which could become Weitering (80), Marchbank (60) and Macreadie (40) for 60 average at the same point in time.

Similar with the mid group: last week's Thomas, Ed, Cripps, Kerridge, SPS, Fish, Kennedy, Dow & O'Brien had an average of 62 games and a median of 26. Next year round 1 we could have Murph, Ed, Cripps, Lang, SPS, Fish, Kennedy, Dow & O'Brien with an average of 75 and a median of 39. Massive improvement in the spread of experience. Come 2020 that same group could potentially be as high as 95 & 59. That's getting pretty serious and when we should really be making our presence felt.
 

Iamcarlton

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I'm confused now. What exactly has Kennedy shown? Swap him with LOB at least. Then you say McKay hasn't shown anything. LOL McKay has shown more than Dow and Kennedy combined in only 4 games...

Our forward line is in worse nick, but not because of the lack of talls. We have shit medium and small forwards minus Pickett who is out for a while now.

That's why we need to bring in as many quality mids as we can. That way we can afford to rotate Rankine and Cripps in our forward line.

If I can list more (or approx equal amount of) under 22 kpf than mids on our list we are in MASSIVE trouble for years to come mate.
Your exactly right its the flow on effect it will make to the forwardline .
Weve got a fwd weapon sitting there in the midfield waiting to be utilized forward in Cripps .
But we cant because of the state of our midfield .
I would guess that we are giving up 20+ goals a year in this one scenario by not being able to play Cripps fwd like a Dangerfield or Martin on 60-40 , 70-30 split .
You could also say similar for Murphy .
 
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CJMB

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I'm confused now. What exactly has Kennedy shown? Swap him with LOB at least.
Kennedy has shown enough in his time at GWS and with us for me to see he's going to make it as a very good player.

He's been badly hampered by injury over the preseason and during the season remember. Shoulder injuries mean no bench press, lat pull downs or upper body and arm workouts at all. You lose a ton of size and strength with a shoulder and they take ages to get better.

That's why his quads look enormous compared to his upper body.

He was clearly hampered by injury last week too.
He's hardly had a clean bill of health this preseason and during the season proper. There's been all this talk about how he looks like he's still not right and moving slow yet if you ignore his round 1 game where he was on field for about a quarter he's averaging 6 tackles a game (ranked 3rd), 20 pressure acts (3rd) including 11 defensive half pressure acts (2nd), nearly 3 clearances (6th) and 7 CP (~10th). He does a fair bit of blocking and trying to play the supporting role to whoever is nearby, be it Cripps, Ed, Fish, etc.

As the season goes on and he builds some strength into his shoulder, some stability in his ankle and builds his tank back up he should improve all those metrics considerably. From memory at the draft combine he finished right up the top in the goal kicking tests and his overhead marking was seen as possibly his biggest strength. Getting his shoulder and ankle right will go a long way in adding those aspects back to his game, both things we haven't really seen from him yet at Carlton. I think he's going to be a great soldier in the midfield for us for years to come, just give him some time.
 

pinot

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We need a Treloar (20-21 y.o) and small forward(20-25 y.o) more than a Gaff this year, reserve that Gaff role for Dow.

Fiorini is looking the goods IMO and would give up picks for him, and he's also a Northern Knights boy
 

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We need a Treloar (20-21 y.o) and small forward(20-25 y.o) more than a Gaff this year, reserve that Gaff role for Dow.

Fiorini is looking the goods IMO and would give up picks for him, and he's also a Northern Knights boy
The Gaff role goes to LOB.
 

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Mal rolling into the thread like:



Given who we have currently in the backline (Mullet, sometimes cuningham, an out of form Plowman, and the not up to it O'shea), do you think it is worth trying him a bit more on the HBF? Cant be slower than O Shea surely. If he settles there and can tackle, is a good footy IQ.
O'Shea is definitely quicker than SOS. If O'Shea had SOS' smarts and skills, he'd be an elite medium defender.

Medium forwards/backs run linkup tackle pressure if they cant do that enough they are a tall or KPP . Plowman JSOS Oshea add none of that they are not runners so may as well be classified as key position players because they add very little at ground level .
Marchbank is a KPP that because of playing 4 talls in defence gets the loose defender intercept role .
Plowman and O'Shea can contribute to the rebound, but the team isn't there yet. You see what happens when O'Shea ****s up (which he does regularly, which is why he shouldn't be in the side), Plowman is just playing much more conservatively, though he relaxed that (under instruction) last two weeks ago and doubled his scoring involvements.

I remember SOS added Scrimshaw in almost as an afterthought at the end of a pre-draft discussion.
With pick 5. If he's available for pick 30, you'd be silly not to look at him given they're trying to turn him into a key defender at the Suns.
 
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Iamcarlton

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Mal rolling into the thread like:




O'Shea is definitely quicker than SOS. If O'Shea had SOS' smarts and skills, he'd be an elite medium defender.


Plowman and O'Shea can contribute to the rebound, but the team isn't there yet. You see what happens when O'Shea ****s up (which he does regularly, which is why he shouldn't be in the side), Plowman is just playing much more conservatively, though he relaxed that (under instruction) last week and doubled his scoring involvements.


With pick 5. If he's available for pick 30, you'd be silly not to look at him given they're trying to turn him into a key defender at the Suns.
Under instruction??
You have inside knowledge jimmae?
I think your being generous here jimmae nice of you .
 

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Under instruction??
You have inside knowledge jimmae?
I think your being generous here jimmae nice of you .
Apologies, he was on the bench having a back and forth discussion with Bolton during the Eagles game, not the Dogs game.

Plowman's job is to flex between last-line defensive roles, with some attacking flair when the matchups allow. He's supposed to be our Josh Gibson.
 

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HereComesJuddy

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The Gaff role goes to LOB.
In time, definitely.
But Gaff would be a great acquisition to our midfield. Lots of run in the outside and his cp ability has improved a lot this season.
If he just costs us coin, lets at least throw our hat in the ring
 

Cripps17

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In time, definitely.
But Gaff would be a great acquisition to our midfield. Lots of run in the outside and his cp ability has improved a lot this season.
If he just costs us coin, lets at least throw our hat in the ring
Gaff is a year older than Doc. We'd be crazy not to throw a lot at him but unfortunately I see no reason why he would preference us over the many options he has.
 

Masqualero

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Shiel or Kelly would be perfect. Maybe Kelly because he's younger.
Shiel would probably be the better fit for us IMO as he helps with the contested ability but is quick, sort of what we hope Dow will develop into.
I think if Kelly played with us his output would lower significantly as we rely on one person getting clearances and he receives a lot of handballs.
 

reubsblues

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Was thinking with our lack of midfield depth Armitage would be a good player to get into the club out of form and favour but has proven he is more than capable at afl level and would still have 4 seasons left in him. Thoughts?
 
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Generally speaking and I have put this forward many times before; Somehow the player you deem to be the best player available with your early picks, just happens to be the type you want. That's no quirk but just he way a recruiter is swayed into considering the bigger picture and sometimes also, it just doesn't work out the way you wanted it to.
This. I didnt quite say it like this but this is exactly what happens. It is 'Best Available for Carlton'. This takes in to account needs.
 

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Was thinking with our lack of midfield depth Armitage would be a good player to get into the club out of form and favour but has proven he is more than capable at afl level and would still have 4 seasons left in him. Thoughts?
Has been a decent footballer over the years, but injuries have killed him over the past few years, and at 30 I'm not sure he has long left in the game.

Would think there is every chance he retires at the end of this year, and regardless I think we'd probably look at a different type of player if we go down the mature route, which I think we should and will.
 

reubsblues

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Has been a decent footballer over the years, but injuries have killed him over the past few years, and at 30 I'm not sure he has long left in the game.

Would think there is every chance he retires at the end of this year, and regardless I think we'd probably look at a different type of player if we go down the mature route, which I think we should and will.
Yeah probably right mate just trying to think how we can boltser our midfield stocks and at least make our vfl side competitiv
 

Arr0w

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He's hardly had a clean bill of health this preseason and during the season proper. There's been all this talk about how he looks like he's still not right and moving slow yet if you ignore his round 1 game where he was on field for about a quarter he's averaging 6 tackles a game (ranked 3rd), 20 pressure acts (3rd) including 11 defensive half pressure acts (2nd), nearly 3 clearances (6th) and 7 CP (~10th). He does a fair bit of blocking and trying to play the supporting role to whoever is nearby, be it Cripps, Ed, Fish, etc.

As the season goes on and he builds some strength into his shoulder, some stability in his ankle and builds his tank back up he should improve all those metrics considerably. From memory at the draft combine he finished right up the top in the goal kicking tests and his overhead marking was seen as possibly his biggest strength. Getting his shoulder and ankle right will go a long way in adding those aspects back to his game, both things we haven't really seen from him yet at Carlton. I think he's going to be a great soldier in the midfield for us for years to come, just give him some time.
Careful, you are making to much sense
 
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