Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

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SkyhorseTamer

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Collingwoods small/medium forwards include - WHE, De Goey, Stephenson, Miholchek, Daicos, Brown
Richmonds small/medium forwards include - Butler, Castagna, Caddy, Rioli, Higgins, Bolton, Townsend

Ours: Pickett, Garlett, Wright, Lamb, Polson, LeBois

Collingwood and Richmonds small/medium forwards do so much damage and are a big part of their mobility and goal scoring up forward plus defensive pressure.
Plus they have a higher number of them on their list compared to us.

Ours basically have no impact...Wright and Lamb are past it while Polson and LeBois are still have a long way to go. Garlett is only a maybe. Pickett is the best prospect, but injury issues have stalled his development.

Barely any positive impact at all from this group of players.
Small medium forwards are most definitely the last piece of the puzzle.
 

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Soapy V

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Small medium forwards are most definitely the last piece of the puzzle.
Palmer doing well in NB's may be worth a shot. I'd like to see Kerridge given a chance as a medium forward, 6.2 great engine and can kick goals. Next year I hope to see Murphy & LeBois up forward maybe Polson. We may get Lukosius who is mobile and can we find a Papely/Ronke type cheap?

I don't think we are far away but some more won't hurt. Cripps Charlie Kennedy SPS Fisher Pickett Dow all spending time there is dangerous as well.

Like with everything else a winning midfield will make a massive difference
 

therubbernub

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This is the issue. Too much focus on on field performances by young players. LeBois is highly rated by the coaches. If not injured would be in the seniors.

Polson was the same and got a 2 year deal and started to show something on the weekend. Although I rate his talent it's the clubs opinion that is the most important
Soap what are his perceived strengths? Does he give good forward defensive pressure?
 

therubbernub

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The champion data ratings consistently mark jones as one of the best key defenders in the comp, which means his positive contributions far outweigh his negative ones in the backline. Of course those ratings aren't definitive in determining how good or bad a player is, but I think they are a pretty good indicator that people tend to focus on the negatives he does in the same way people overly focus on the positives Rance does. Jones is a very good Backman. Not without flaws, but very good nonetheless. Trading him would be a big call.
I am of the keep jones camp. I just think he needs some smart players around him to organise the defense and he will do the mercurial things that not many others can. Doc coming back will go a long way to helping in this regard. I am open to getting Loyd across , if this means that our defense is able to start getting re-organised and performing like we know it can. I still think williamson can play that role as well, as can simmo, but he is running out of time. It will be interesting if Byrne shows anything this weekend
 
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Palmer doing well in NB's may be worth a shot. I'd like to see Kerridge given a chance as a medium forward, 6.2 great engine and can kick goals. Next year I hope to see Murphy & LeBois up forward maybe Polson. We may get Lukosius who is mobile and can we find a Papely/Ronke type cheap?

I don't think we are far away but some more won't hurt. Cripps Charlie Kennedy SPS Fisher Pickett Dow all spending time there is dangerous as well.

Like with everything else a winning midfield will make a massive difference
Lebois has been at Carlton for almost two years. Is injury prone and has had very little impact at VFL level. Will not be at Carlton next year.
We need 23-25 year old quick, small forwards who are fringe players at higher clubs. We don’t need another light bodied player who hardly touches the ball.
Also don’t want lebois taking up a list spot when we could rookie a mature age player like Tim Kelly or a Ryan from WCE.
Lebois and JGM unfortunately have been busts as rookies and will be moved on.
 

Soapy V

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Soap what are his perceived strengths? Does he give good forward defensive pressure?
LeBois has come from a long way back and was always seen as a longer term project player. He is quick, agile, good defensively and can sniff a goal. Real X factor and great skills. I reckon he would do better in a better side. I have asked questions about him and Bolton loves him as do all the coaches. If not injured he would be playing ones. No doubt.

Last year was hard for him for personal reasons and this year was settled and got himself fit. Unfortunately a broken collarbone and a hamstring have held him back. It happens. He's only just turned 20 and seems even younger.

Comments that have been made to me is he will be staying. Whether he makes it or not only time will tell but he is the type we really need. People saying he will be cut must no more than me. I'd be interested to know where they got their information as mine is pretty good on this one

Personally I have hope for any young player until I see the play regularly and get experience or have been on the list for 3-4 years. They all develop differently and things change very quickly. I don't know how many times I've heard Dow, SPS, LOB, Fisher, Polson, Cunners, Kennedy etc written off over the last 6 months. Some on here seem to be in a rush to be the first to write a player off ;)
 
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Lebois is a rookie. He was a speculative pick.
Over his 22 games he averages around 5 possessions, 2 tackles and 0.4 goals a game at VFL level.
I have seen him play numerous times and he has had no impact. Applies little defensive pressure and is easily pushed off the ball, which is why he hardly gets it. Also is extremely injury prone.
I would be astounded if coaches have told supporters he will be on our list next year, particularly when he has hardly played and has no impact when he does.
To say he would be playing seniors if not injured is fanciful. Probably similar to saying if JGM wasn’t injured he’d be playing seniors.
 
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Soapy V

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Lebois is a rookie. He was a speculative pick. He averages around 8 possessions and 0.4 goals a game at VFL level. I have seen him play numerous times and he has had no impact. Applies little defensive pressure and is easily pushed off the ball, which is why he hardly gets it. Also is extremely injury prone.
I would be astounded if coaches have told supporters he will be on our list next year, particularly when he has hardly played and has no impact when he does.
To say he would be playing seniors if not injured is fanciful. Probably similar to saying if JGM wasn’t injured he’d be playing seniors.
Like I said I don't write off young players. Less than 15 senior games in his life. Stats don't mean much to me at this stage especially playing small forward in our reserves recently. Tough gig. As for playing Seniors he was picked round one last year but was injured on the Wednesday prior and then was Emergency for a few games this year after playing some decent football and was close, then broke his collarbone
 

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Collingwoods small/medium forwards include - WHE, De Goey, Stephenson, Miholchek, Daicos, Brown
Richmonds small/medium forwards include - Butler, Castagna, Caddy, Rioli, Higgins, Bolton, Townsend

Ours: Pickett, Garlett, Wright, Lamb, Polson, LeBois

Collingwood and Richmonds small/medium forwards do so much damage and are a big part of their mobility and goal scoring up forward plus defensive pressure.
Plus they have a higher number of them on their list compared to us.

Ours basically have no impact...Wright and Lamb are past it while Polson and LeBois are still have a long way to go. Garlett is only a maybe. Pickett is the best prospect, but injury issues have stalled his development.

Barely any positive impact at all from this group of players.
Agreed on this sentiment.

We have so many options with our hand this year, all be it many holes on the list.

I would love to see SOS go with speed and kicking ability in the middle. I hope we choose the best talent for specific holes in our list. BUT we need people who can run and kick.

For mine, we need to pass on anybody who can’t make a decision, or who stands still at a contest.

Watching other teams, the waves of runners out of the backline who back themselves and the team to retain the pill.

Look at Thomas for the pies today. Hit every contest running and was rewarded accordingly. That’s also what we need up forward

In SOS we trust.


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Like I said I don't write off young players. Less than 15 senior games in his life. Stats don't mean much to me at this stage especially playing small forward in our reserves recently. Tough gig. As for playing Seniors he was picked round one last year but was injured on the Wednesday prior and then was Emergency for a few games this year after playing some decent football and was close, then broke his collarbone
Round 1 2017 is a lifetime ago and I can only remember him being emergency once this year..after doing very little in the 2s.
Agreed that stats aren’t everything, but if when playing as a small forward you don’t apply pressure, you don’t get the ball, you average 2 tackles a match, you don’t kick goals and you are a rookie, you don’t last.
I’m interested. Who from the Carlton FC has said he will be on the list next year? Bold call on an underperforming injury prone rookie.
 

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It's a perfect time to trade Jones, even though if he was at Sydney, he may look like a superstar.
Sydney aren't going to follow on with Grundy and desperately require a key back. We need more mids. Jones for Lloyd would be an easy deal.

If we are indeed chasing Collins, then you have to ask yourself why?
We have Jones. We will have Macreadie coming on and then there's Weitering & Marchbank, even if Rowe and ASilvagni are to be moved on.

We can't just keep stocking up on back-men for the fun of it. You have to eventually consolidate.
JONes for Lloyd wouldn’t be direct. Maybe an extra second round pick and an exchange of futures
 

Soapy V

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Round 1 2017 is a lifetime ago and I can only remember him being emergency once this year..after doing very little in the 2s.
Agreed that stats aren’t everything, but if when playing as a small forward you don’t apply pressure, you don’t get the ball, you average 2 tackles a match, you don’t kick goals and you are a rookie, you don’t last.
I’m interested. Who from the Carlton FC has said he will be on the list next year? Bold call on an underperforming injury prone rookie.
Don't agree. I've made my point. Time will tell
 

Tyruddanaut

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Round 1 2017 is a lifetime ago and I can only remember him being emergency once this year..after doing very little in the 2s.
Agreed that stats aren’t everything, but if when playing as a small forward you don’t apply pressure, you don’t get the ball, you average 2 tackles a match, you don’t kick goals and you are a rookie, you don’t last.
I’m interested. Who from the Carlton FC has said he will be on the list next year? Bold call on an underperforming injury prone rookie.
I don’t know who you’re talking about but I assume Lebois. I agree
 

Farktherest

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Palmer doing well in NB's may be worth a shot. I'd like to see Kerridge given a chance as a medium forward, 6.2 great engine and can kick goals. Next year I hope to see Murphy & LeBois up forward maybe Polson. We may get Lukosius who is mobile and can we find a Papely/Ronke type cheap?

I don't think we are far away but some more won't hurt. Cripps Charlie Kennedy SPS Fisher Pickett Dow all spending time there is dangerous as well.

Like with everything else a winning midfield will make a massive difference
Agree on Kerridge.
Would like to see him as a high pressure half forward, with some stints in midfield...similar role to Caddy/Castagna from Richmond.

Big engine, big body, can kick a goal. We can use him as a link up player since he'll be able to run all day off opponents and give him big defensive KPI's for pressure.
 

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Really intrigued with our outgoings and how SOS and co. are going to approach culling this list at the end of the season. I can see the high volume of 10-12 changes probably for the final time in our rebuild, especially if there's a priority pick thrown our way. Something along the lines of;

Lamb, Jones (Traded), Rowe (Retired or Delisted), Mullett, O’Shea, Graham, Thomas (Retired), Shaw, Glass-McKasker, A. Silvagni (Retired).

10 spots on the list open up, allowing us to structure it how we want. But can see us sticking with the 40 + 4 or going an extra senior spot and going 41 + 3.

The Jones one is hypothetical, and unless a Collins or someone of the the sort comes in, I can't see him being used in a transaction if we were to also let go of Rowe, ASOS, JGM and O'Shea. The reasoning around him being used though makes a lot of sense and I agree with what Harks said earlier in the thread.

Think Wright, LeBois, Kerridge, Lobbe will be given another year, unless extra spots needed on the list to do what we have to do.

This would allow us to take 4 at the ND (I think we will take 5, seeing how strong it is, meaning we need to create another spot) and 3 through Trade/FA. Then add 3 new rookies at the RD.

There will be enquiries again for players, whether we follow through with negotiations or not will change that outgoing list obviously. For example, I mean if Brissy came after Byrne again, I would 100% take a look at it if they offered a pick that would assist us in our incomings. Trade period always throwing up diverse situations out of the blue.

Really think we will be active again this year during the period and the club is making loud noises they are preparing to do so.
 
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bluegrass

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LeBois has come from a long way back and was always seen as a longer term project player. He is quick, agile, good defensively and can sniff a goal. Real X factor and great skills. I reckon he would do better in a better side. I have asked questions about him and Bolton loves him as do all the coaches. If not injured he would be playing ones. No doubt.

Last year was hard for him for personal reasons and this year was settled and got himself fit. Unfortunately a broken collarbone and a hamstring have held him back. It happens. He's only just turned 20 and seems even younger.

Comments that have been made to me is he will be staying. Whether he makes it or not only time will tell but he is the type we really need. People saying he will be cut must no more than me. I'd be interested to know where they got their information as mine is pretty good on this one

Personally I have hope for any young player until I see the play regularly and get experience or have been on the list for 3-4 years. They all develop differently and things change very quickly. I don't know how many times I've heard Dow, SPS, LOB, Fisher, Polson, Cunners, Kennedy etc written off over the last 6 months. Some on here seem to be in a rush to be the first to write a player off ;)
Where is heatlystand about now? Ok, I guess it's late.
 
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Lebois is a rookie. He was a speculative pick.
Over his 22 games he averages around 5 possessions, 2 tackles and 0.4 goals a game at VFL level.
I have seen him play numerous times and he has had no impact. Applies little defensive pressure and is easily pushed off the ball, which is why he hardly gets it. Also is extremely injury prone.
I would be astounded if coaches have told supporters he will be on our list next year, particularly when he has hardly played and has no impact when he does.
To say he would be playing seniors if not injured is fanciful. Probably similar to saying if JGM wasn’t injured he’d be playing seniors.
JGM has never been an emergency.
 
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