Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Billy smedts got to us. Steak knifes... there are worse players than graham and he does have very small currency.. did not say a word on casboult and completly agree with your opinion on him. Unfortunalty stuck with big levi but maybe for the best. Graham on the other hand can still make something of himself. He may no he isnt part of the future at carlton. To me he looks like he needs a reset. Some players do. Grahams not going to be a star in any team. But u certainly need to show more respect for your own players.. dont need a mitch robinson situation happening again were we give players away for nothing because the player didnt work in our system.....

They won't even give Barlow a game so I can't see them wanting Graham.

 

[Number17]

So do I. Something really really good about this kid. Just has a presence about him. May take another 2-3 years but equally good in Ruck or Forward

Same. Seems quite skilful and mobile for his size. Can take a good grab. Appears to play stronger/tougher than his body shape and height suggests (if that makes sense ... does to me anyway).

Just have a gut feel he may be something special.

 

[Number17]

If you can judge someone on attitude Kerr will make it. Lovely kid

For some reason he reminds me of Daniel Bradshaw. I hope he can develop to the same level and goal output.

 

[Jeremias]

It could back-fire. Whichever way, it's all a little bit rushed for mine.

Probably being a bit dramatic there. Not sure how this could back-fire.

Even if TDK doesn't continue to develop as hoped, there's absolutely nothing wrong with backing him in. It's not as if he'd be on a lot of money, or we don't have the list space to stash a developing tall for a few years.

 

[BluStreak]

I would not reject the idea of applying for a PP at the end of the season. I believe that is the appropriate time to discuss the matter.
I believe that SOS would easily turn that pick into another good trade or select another talented kid.

Back in May when the media clamoured all over our club about getting a PP (as if it was a forgone conclusion that we would) I found it interesting that Cain stated that it had not been discussed internally at the club.
Then he trotted out the lines about us taking responsibility for where the club is at, that we have gone to the drafts and collected a talented group of kids, sticking to our plan etc.
All very good counters to the points the media was making. what is the end result of all that? The media is now clamouring for us to get one.

 

[blue healer]

Would be the beginning of the end for them if that is indeed the case.

He could be among the greatest coach in training players ever, but you need to leave your sphere of influence and familiarity to truly learn how to coach properly, do an apprenticeship as an assistant somewhere else, and if the situation in Sydney changes at the right time maybe apply for the job.

If they went for him, even as just an assistant, he wouldn't be getting the feedback he'd get elsewhere. You need new and different ideas to become an AFL coach, not be in the same building with the same people for 20 years.

I tend to agree with this. I think Tony Shaw would have made a much better coach had Collingwood allowed him to take the job we offered in 1995. Would have learned much more in that year, which resulted in a flag for us than staying in a familiar place.

 

[BoltonsBlues]

They won't even give Barlow a game so I can't see them wanting Graham.

Fair point

 

[blue healer]

Probably being a bit dramatic there. Not sure how this could back-fire.

Even if TDK doesn't continue to develop as hoped, there's absolutely nothing wrong with backing him in. It's not as if he'd be on a lot of money, or we don't have the list space to stash a developing tall for a few years.

On the other hand, if he has a breakout year next year he could find himself playing the next two for unders.

I'm a little with Harks on this one, can't seem to forget that we were caught with player contracts that weren't deserved when Malthouse came to the club.

 

[ESKIE]

Marchbank type intercept defender but not quite as athletic.

Not bad. A few clubs interested.

Club has another signing that they're holding off on. I wonder why? Could be like Weitering when they had that signed off in before the B&F but wanted to have some great news to announce there.

Brownlow maybe ?

 

[Number17]

Fair point

I don’t think you should use Barlow at the example there. He came back into NEAFL after a 2nd badly broken leg and then got a fractured jaw. By the time he came back and started getting up to match fitness again the Suns season was already over so they’ve taken the opportunity to get games into the young mids.
Having said that, I can’t see a world where the Suns will want to take fringe players from the only team below them when they have a strong hand in a good draft and are about to lose their best key forward.

 

[Jeremias]

On the other hand, if he has a breakout year next year he could find himself playing the next two for unders.

I'm a little with Harks on this one, can't seem to forget that we were caught with player contracts that weren't deserved when Malthouse came to the club.

When the contract expires he'll have barely turned 22, and will have 4 years of experience under his belt.

I don't think that's an unreasonable extension to give, and I certainly don't think there's any chance it'll backfire in any meaningful way.

Even if TDK doesn't come on, giving a young tall time to develop in an elite environment is perfectly fine.

 

[blue healer]

When the contract expires he'll have barely turned 22, and will have 4 years of experience under his belt.

I don't think that's an unreasonable extension to give, and I certainly don't think there's any chance it'll backfire in any meaningful way.

Even if TDK doesn't come on, giving a young tall time to develop in an elite environment is perfectly fine.

Won't really get an argument, don't feel strongly enough either way.

If the club think extensions are warranted that's fine by me.

 

[PrinceCharles]

It was on Polson. Also another 2 years on top of the one remaining for TDK......hasn't played a game yet.

It could back-fire. Whichever way, it's all a little bit rushed for mine.

Don't see how it could when we would never (unless behavioural issues) delist a pick 30 200cm player before 3 years anyway. Hell we've kept JGM for that long and TDK has already shown a heap more.

 

[HARKER]

Don't see how it could when we would never (unless behavioural issues) delist a pick 30 200cm player before 3 years anyway. Hell we've kept JGM for that long and TDK has already shown a heap more.

Tall first rounders in Vickery, Butcher, Thorp, Dowler, Cook, Gorringe, & Jaksch didn't last too long and some would have likely been let go a lot earlier had they not had their names called out early in drafts, let alone second rounders.

Again, good on TDK for getting an extra two years beyond his contracted 2019 year and I'm confident he'll be a very good player, but we are playing a risky game here.
We may win, but we may lose out as well.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Tall first rounders in Vickery, Butcher, Thorp, Dowler, Cook, Gorringe, & Jaksch didn't last too long and some would have likely been let go a lot earlier had they not had their names called out early in drafts, let alone second rounders.

Again, good on TDK for getting an extra two years beyond his contracted 2019 year and I'm confident he'll be a very good player, but we are playing a risky game here.
We may win, but we may lose out as well.

Not going to check, but would guess they all lasted longer than 3 years.

 

[Broadside]

Tall first rounders in Vickery, Butcher, Thorp, Dowler, Cook, Gorringe, & Jaksch didn't last too long and some would have likely been let go a lot earlier had they not had their names called out early in drafts, let alone second rounders.

Again, good on TDK for getting an extra two years beyond his contracted 2019 year and I'm confident he'll be a very good player, but we are playing a risky game here.
We may win, but we may lose out as well.

but what is the risk - we have plenty of free spots available on the list (or will at season's end) and heaps of salary cap space even if we happen to sign a gun free agent (which is unlikely). So what is the harm in spending some salary cap on a couple of promising players?

 

[F_therest]

Good on the guys for getting contract extensions but I must say, I wonder whether the rush is warranted.
Admittedly Kerr & Polson were to be out of contract at years end and I guess we feel we won't get anyone better after our de-listings, but it's not as though anyone would have rushed out and picked them up. De Koning had another year on his contract. why the rush?

Anyway, good luck to guys, but I don't recall us sticking our necks out so early and so often as we have done, in the past couple of years.

So we can front load their contracts

 

[F_therest]

Sam Collins is an A grade person off the field and imo would be an great cheap addition to the list.

Isn't Sam Collins a kpd?
If he is I don't think we need any more.

 

[thylacine60]

Same. Seems quite skilful and mobile for his size. Can take a good grab. Appears to play stronger/tougher than his body shape and height suggests (if that makes sense ... does to me anyway).

Just have a gut feel he may be something special.

loves getting his hands dirty - excellent second efforts - has mongrel - is mobile - wears headband - keep

 

[HARKER]

Not going to check, but would guess they all lasted longer than 3 years.

You didn't read what I wrote then.

It's fine and I like TDK, as he'll be a good one but it's a very different style from SOS for the players he brought into the club, against the ones he didn't.
The point though is that he isn't a top ten pick and has not proven anything just yet and we could have simply contracted him next year should he front up after a solid pre-season and show some form in the seniors and if we had to pay an extra dollar or so to have some proof in the pudding.....that's fine too.
Polson was also given two extra years against very little exposed form.

 

[Bostonian]

They won't even give Barlow a game so I can't see them wanting Graham.

They are giving Holman a game though and he's Nick Graham like.

 

[HARKER]

Players currently without a contract;

Simpson - Likely to go on.
Kerridge - If we still need bigger bodies in the middle, he'll stay
Lamb - 80% gone
Rowe - 50/50, but only one of he and ASilvagni can remain
Graham - 70% gone
Shaw - 90% gone
Thomas - 70% gone
GlassMac - 95% gone
Le Bois - 50/50 but really more likely to remain as he's something we're sorely lacking
ASilvagni - 50/50 Either he or Rowe stay another year, but not both.
Wright - 50/50 Hasn't had a good year, but who has. May depend on what we do at the trade table.

Lobbe - Did we pick him up on one year or two?
O'Shea - Isn't the PSD automatically 2 years?

Think it's fair to say that we have five definite movers and one of Rowe or ASilvagni making 6
Reckon we can pick out another 2 - 4 without too many issues, hence: We'll lose 8 - 10 players this year....I think.

 

[harrisendblue]

They are giving Holman a game though and he's Nick Graham like.

Maybe its time to play Graham for the remainder of the year so we can fatten him up for slaughter?

 

[Wickzki]

It was on Polson. Also another 2 years on top of the one remaining for TDK......hasn't played a game yet.

It could back-fire. Whichever way, it's all a little bit rushed for mine.

We're not going to give up on any of the youngsters that we've drafted in over the past couple of years when there is so much other deadwood on the roster, HARKER .

You need to back in the kids that you've drafted. Polson and Kerr have both shown something at AFL level. It may not be all there yet but there's something.

If you're going to draft a developmental KP as high up in the draft as we did De Koning (second round) then you have to give him a second contract unless he shows that he isn't mentally strong enough to be a professional footballer. He's accounted for himself extremely well by all reports.

I don't have a problem with any of those three extensions. The Polson one came earlier than I would have liked (before he had shown anything at the AFL level) but now that he has I'm supportive of that decision.

Worst case scenario plays out and we clear the older deadwood over the next two years... By that stage we'll be ready to make more cuts. If they make it, superb. And if not then we know whose going in two and three years.

 

[harrisendblue]

Players currently without a contract;

Simpson - Likely to go on.
Kerridge - If we still need bigger bodies in the middle, he'll stay
Lamb - 80% gone
Rowe - 50/50, but only one of he and ASilvagni can remain
Graham - 70% gone
Shaw - 90% gone
Thomas - 70% gone
GlassMac - 95% gone
Le Bois - 50/50 but really more likely to remain as he's something we're sorely lacking
ASilvagni - 50/50 Either he or Rowe stay another year, but not both.
Wright - 50/50 Hasn't had a good year, but who has. May depend on what we do at the trade table.

Lobbe - Did we pick him up on one year or two?
O'Shea - Isn't the PSD automatically 2 years?

Think it's fair to say that we have five definite movers and one of Rowe or ASilvagni making 6
Reckon we can pick out another 2 - 4 without too many issues, hence: We'll lose 8 - 10 players this year....I think.

Whilst they are all in the gun I'm not sure the club will cut that hard after the last three years drastic cuts. I would dump shaw, graham, JGM, Lobbe, Oshea, Lebois and one of rowe/a silvagni - 7 changes max.