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Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Part 1 (continued in Part 2 - see OP for link)
- Thread starter Jeremias
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- Jun 6, 2012
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Pressure in footy in the past is a very minor fraction of what it is today. Yes pressure acts aren't new - players in the past did in fact tackle, etc. but nothing like it is now. You even said it in your first post, today the small forward position is judged far more around the ability to create pressure.
Richmond weren't / aren't built on team defence, they're built on maximising efficiency in every position of the ground. They just happened to identify that forward lines in the past typically haven't provided as much defensive effort as they are physically capable of providing. Also that their 2nd ruck was inefficient.
Building a gameplan around enabling your gun players sounds like late 90s Pagan's paddock type stuff. Pretty easy to shut down in this day & age
HBF
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I couldn't find anything on line.
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Also due to the excess of mids, there are several available each year as Free agents and Trade targets also.
Kelly and Dusty last year, Sloane and Gaff this year, Kelly and Shiel next year etc.
- Aug 16, 2015
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What did people read in to, Short from Richmond rejecting the tigers contract offer and putting off talks? I would be getting in his ear big time, if the tigers want ne of the Lynch’s then they will lose one or two.
Short and Bolton please.
Short and Bolton please.
It is all relative. For the way game was played their pressure acts would have been way above average of players from other teams trying to play up forward at same time. It is why our best was better at the time. Pressure acts are nothing new. Just that coaches expect all of them to be doing it up forward now. Otherwise if you like Jeffy Garlett, in and out of side until you reach that level regularly.
I did not say Pagan's paddock. I said team defence allowing 3 or 4 guns to be the difference was the key. If your team defence is rock solid, it is anything but easy to outscore for the other team.
The challenge is many teams do not have a cohesive enough group to not have chinks in their team defence. Once exploited the other team kills it off making use of their guns to give the edge.
- Jun 6, 2012
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I guess I see whole team defence as just the flip side to the whole team offence teams figured out a long time ago. Which is something Richmond are also solid at - with Rance arguably the most attacking full back of all time, Houli winning the norm smith with his rebound, etc.
That’s what I mean about efficiency, getting everyone to contribute both ways
I was at grand final. Houli and Rance played their parts well but really without Martin kicking skill forward of centre and Shane Edwards gun inside work complimenting Cotchin, Tigers would have no edge. David Dench far superior attacking full back to Rance.
Rance loose man in defence role with team defence allowing him to best use his kicking skill is a nice edge from back half. Just an upgrade on role a Cloke played for Pies in early 2000's.
Dench so much better attacking from true full back and still being directly responsible for playing on a forward it is not funny.
- Jun 6, 2012
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Yep defenders providing offensive drive has been around for a long while. This push for defensive pressure from forwards is long overdue
You are forgetting an important thing. It is team defence that is the strength here. The pressure comes from the 18 players all covering space in zone formation to lock ball in. It is how a team locks ball in their forward 50 for large length of time. It does not even matter at that point to even be a special kick for goal as at some stage your team creates opportunities to kick from 20 metres out and score goals to win, if your team defence is working so well the chinks in it hard to find. You get through first layer of defence there are 4 to 5 opposing players coming at you and the pressure builds. We have seen twice in a row teams in top 8 win against other team in top 8 and still have long periods they did not really need to hit scoreboard and still win. Swans beat Eagles last week with two quarters they did not kick a goal. Repeat. Winning a game without kicking a goal for two whole quarters against a premiership contender. Port kicked one goal in whole second half v Richmond a week earlier and won. Just shows where whole game is at right now with team defence the cornerstone but the guns give you the edge. Martin missing v Port was difference. Port won off a few guns in small part of game that hit scoreboard. Take away Gray or Wingard, result reversed.
So a few small forwards high on pressure on their own is not the key because if next layer of defence behind them is no good, the other team play to that weakness in team defence in how they get out of their back 50. Why poor Devon Smith earlier in season was seeing s**t team result despite his own defensive pressure super elite.
BrisbaneCFC
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- Sep 1, 2016
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Honestly, I have no idea what a goalkicking pressure small forward is. No idea what a defensive lockdown forward is. Call me crazy, but aren't they just forwards? God, I long for the days, when forwards were just forwards, defenders were just defenders and midfielders were just midfielders.
Coming to a football ground near you in 2019. s**t, you might even see a rover then.
Well of course you might have a struggle with what they are as we dont have them atleast in the senior side atm .
Wright can kick a goal but he's more opportunistic than a pressure forward .
But possibly Lamb is or has been used as a lockdown/defensive forward because he doesnt have the pace to be a pressure forward and doesnt kick goals .
Pretty much all of Richmonds small forwards can pressure the opposition into turnovers and kick goals hence goalkicking pressure forwards .
But yes your right the terminologies can get confusing nowadays .
JMO of course .
BrisbaneCFC
Norm Smith Medallist
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They are simply terms created to make football analysts ie commentators, sound smarter than the average punter ie fan.
I still have no clue what the fat side of the ground is.
We need to get ball down there first.... Which means we need midfielders more than anything else. We have worst inside 50 average in league.
Where Thy eats at VFL games?
It's the one that's really slippery isn't it?
AceAndy
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- Jun 18, 2013
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The open side , where the congestion aint.
Because it's fatty and slippery.
Kelly & Martin didn't change clubs though ??
We will find out soon about Sloane & Gaff (I reckon Gaff will stay).
Even if they are available the trick is attracting them, haven't had a lot of success with good players of late.
I think we may have to make a godfather offer and part of me isn't all that keen if money is the only thing that landed them.
BrisbaneCFC
Norm Smith Medallist
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We have needed midfielders since this thing started in 2015.
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