2018 List Management Thread

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Nov 4, 2003
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With one game to play, a likely outgoing coach, and two Victorian teams entering the league next season, we're in a real struggle to retain talent next year.

We're also bottoming out (literally last right now) at a time where we might find ourselves not holding the number 1 pick, leaving us to wait and see what hand we're dealt after 2-4 players head out the door.

Here's a bit of a breakdown:

Retirement beckons: Loynes, Arnell, Attard, Shierlaw, Audley, Downie
Optimal outcome: Loynes and Downie retained

Synopsis: Shierlaw played like she didn't maintain fitness over the off-season, while Arnell, Attard and Audley are creaking to the finish line. Loynes and Downie might be touch and go, but they're people you don't want to walk out of your football club, even though Loynes knees can't be in great condition.

Expansion club bait: Hicks, Hardiman, Keryk, Brazzale
Optimal outcome: Hicks, Hardiman and Brazzale tally to 100 points (current compensation target)

Synopsis: I'm sure many other names will be canvased, but we need to hold onto our talent for dear life. Brazzale, Hicks and Hardiman represent decent players in roles that we have in surplus and/or can re-draft. Keryk might have shown just enough to stay if she can lift her fitness standards for 2019, and probably won't attract value here.

Delist: Last, Plane

Synopsis: We have way too many players that project as small/medium defenders, and Plane and Last are two who have shown a limited combination of attacking flair, run and skill.

Projected 2019 side:

FB: Pound Gillespie-Jones
HB: <???> Downie Stevens
C: Gee Harrington <???>
HF: Gay Harris Vescio
FF: <???> <???>

R: Moody Davey S.Hosking

Int: J.Hosking, Li, Kennedy, Loynes, <???>


Synopsis: There's a gaping hole when it comes to quicker players and solid KPF options to allow Harris to roam, but there is a solid core to be develop upon.

Moving Bri's ball winning ability into midfield will open up a lot of space for our other balanced mids and should be a huge priority, along with developing Vescio's running capacity so she can slip into the midfield to help unlock things for our other forwards.

Remaining depth: Grieve, Webb, Cochrane, Keryk, Lucas-Rodd

Synopsis: Grieve, Cochrane and Webb are all under 21, while Keryk is developmental depth in our short-staffed midfield. Lucas-Rodd is also young, but really really really really really really needs to work on her game sense and kicking.

Unfortunately we probably cannot cut any deeper than this in one season. Assuming they survive the cut, I expect Grieve and Cochrane to be elevated to allow us 2 more code-hopping rookie signings.


Number of suggested list changes (including rookies): 9

Wish list for first 21:
2x Outside Mids (1 elite, 1 above average)
1x small forward (elite pace/agility combo with genuine scoring capability)
1x small defender (running defender with elite pace and quality foot skills)
1x key position forward (mature ager, can kick straight)


Synopsis: I'm hoping Grieve will be the above average outside mid, while we'll probably need to go to the draft and pluck a recent U18 graduate, or snag a code hopper to find that elite talent we need to inject into our midfield mix.

The real struggle is where to find that elite defender, as it will effectively be another elite mid, just with mildly reduced endurance requirements, and we really lack someone with the correct combination of skills to break the game open from half back. Hopefully we can dig up a code hopper here too, but it looms as a glaring problem for 2019.

The forward positions are relatively specialist roles, and as such we should be able to scoop talent from the Victorian pool despite two more teams entering.


Further depth/development acquisitions (one of each): ruck, KPD, KPF, tall inside mid, outside mid

Expected selections: 5 national draft, 2 rookies
Expected trades: NONE


Synopsis: Having moved Bri to the midfield, it may start to trend how AFLW midfields work more towards the men's game, so we should look to get ahead of the pack we'll create and scoop up a diamond in the rough in terms of a tall contested ball winner with a later draft pick.

A developmental ruck would be nice to allow Kennedy to find her natural position without that pressure, and we'll need to grab a tall for either end after sending Hardiman and Shierlaw out the door and Bri to midfield.

It's probably a two year project to rebuild the list, but there are opportunities for us to mildly fast track that in a safe manner, and also create some trade value for the 2019 off-season. Whoever's left of the football staff will be in the fight of their career to ensure our talent drain is along these lines, and not dramatically worse.
 

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Sep 9, 2015
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Why? She's a shortish KPD.

Good player, but we are incredibly stocked at her position and she probably meets the profile that an expansion club would be after.

Because she's in our top 2 defenders, one of the longest kicks in the side which given how woeful we are in kicking we can't afford to lose and can actually play decent football.

At least if she is down back Davey can play further up the ground.
 
Nov 4, 2003
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Because she's in our top 2 defenders, one of the longest kicks in the side which given how woeful we are in kicking we can't afford to lose and can actually play decent football.

At least if she is down back Davey can play further up the ground.
Downie and Pound are better kicks and Gillespie-Jones can hoof it just as far. Something's going to give in that defensive unit, and at present we've got to give up 100 points worth of players at 10-50 points per player.

At 24, and on the short end of the scale for her role, it might be best to get her signed elsewhere if she's worth 50 points.

Who are your suggestions for expansion signings? As I said before, every player is worth between 10 and 50 points, 100 points is the requirement, and a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 players must be moved on to expansion teams (Geelong & North).
 
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Nov 27, 2016
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Coach says we are looking to finish with a win. My question is why?

We need the best available talent.

Really dont want to leapfrog Collingwood who should lose to Adelaide.

Hit the draft hard. Maybe trade out some assets and get a couple more draft picks.

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Nov 4, 2003
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Coach says we are looking to finish with a win. My question is why?

We need the best available talent.

Really dont want to leapfrog Collingwood who should lose to Adelaide.

Hit the draft hard. Maybe trade out some assets and get a couple more draft picks.

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North and Geelong are coming in, so a last-placed finish might only net the 5th Victorian pick, or lower. There's a real chance that the AFLW might go overboard with the expansion concessions, as we don't know what untapped players there are in some sections of Victoria (the Geelong area especially).

So possibly getting to pre-sign mature players from Victorian comps, then a sea of draft picks and 8-16 signings from other clubs before trades and code hoppers, it's a really s**t year to bottom out.

It's the 2002-2004/2010-2014 drafting debacles all over again.
 

drunkill

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Hardiman and Brazzale need to stay. Brazzale is a quality player, who will only get better during the vflw season, she has carried the shoulder injury most of this season which is a shame but we can't afford to lose her strength in the midfield and her long kicks, she can break through a pack pretty easily, while a lot of our players need to hit the gym in the offseason as we're being outmuscled by other teams.

Loynes easily has another year or two, Arnell seemed out of form and I was expecting a retirement this year or next given the leadership change.

Outs: Shierlaw, Last, Plane, Keryk
 
Nov 4, 2003
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Hardiman and Brazzale need to stay. Brazzale is a quality player, who will only get better during the vflw season, she has carried the shoulder injury most of this season which is a shame but we can't afford to lose her strength in the midfield and her long kicks, she can break through a pack pretty easily, while a lot of our players need to hit the gym in the offseason as we're being outmuscled by other teams.

Loynes easily has another year or two, Arnell seemed out of form and I was expecting a retirement this year or next given the leadership change.

Outs: Shierlaw, Last, Plane, Keryk
We need more players who can generate uncontested possessions off half back and through the midfield.

Is Brazzale a pin-point kick and/or can she burn her opponent consistently and mark cleanly? If no to both, she can leave while she's overvalued. The median disposal average in the league is 7, and she barely trickles past that.

Once again, please offer alternatives to the league-mandated signings from our playing list that meet the requirements.

On your other points: endurance is by far our biggest weakness, and that's probably not going to be fixed in the gym for most of our list, it's going to be fixed with better habits, better running and higher-intensity skills sessions.
 
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Great thread Jimmae. It really highlights that we traded away capital last year and we've left ourselves with reduced negotiation and drafting flexibility this year when the other teams come in. I'm stumped about how we make up the 100 points.

I agree with drunkill about Brazzale and Hardiman. They are both players that create or release others to create (with flaws), and we don't have enough of them. Also that we need to spend time building a bit of strength. We do get bumped off the ball a lot. It was stark again on Sunday.

I'm not sure that the usual AFLM structure works. You know the KPF, flanker, inside,outside mid template that we all tinker with. When I was (superficially) thinking about Melbourne's structure on Sunday, it seemed to me that they were at least 70% medium sized two way runners who had built fitness and strength. They were tall enough to contest in the air, but very quick to get to work at ground level too.

We seem to have gone about it like we were AFLM or VFLW.

Be back soon with some points thinking.
 
Nov 4, 2003
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Great thread Jimmae. It really highlights that we traded away capital last year and we've left ourselves with reduced negotiation and drafting flexibility this year when the other teams come in. I'm stumped about how we make up the 100 points.

I agree with drunkill about Brazzale and Hardiman. They are both players that create or release others to create (with flaws), and we don't have enough of them. Also that we need to spend time building a bit of strength. We do get bumped off the ball a lot. It was stark again on Sunday.

I'm not sure that the usual AFLM structure works. You know the KPF, flanker, inside,outside mid template that we all tinker with. When I was (superficially) thinking about Melbourne's structure on Sunday, it seemed to me that they were at least 70% medium sized two way runners who had built fitness and strength. They were tall enough to contest in the air, but very quick to get to work at ground level too.

We seem to have gone about it like we were AFLM or VFLW.

Be back soon with some points thinking.
Agree with you, which is why I want to divest from players like Brazzale, Last, etc.

Gay is the mid playing off HF, while we need to find another one to play off HB. When I'm talking about the men's structure, I meant at the stoppage, so having a bigger midfielder who can dish it out a bit more.

When you look at our defensive stocks, we're running with:

Talls: Hardiman, Gillespie-Jones, Downie, Davey, Kennedy
Smalls: Pound, Brazzale, Last, Attard, Stevens, Hicks

And it's painfully obvious that we need to get an elite runner in there and elite foot skills as the focus for the line going into the future.

I think offering Brazzale and Hardiman a good way to comply with the concessions that doesn't leave the list unbalanced or drain our top tier talent out of the team.
 
Sep 9, 2015
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Downie and Pound are better kicks and Gillespie-Jones can hoof it just as far. Something's going to give in that defensive unit, and at present we've got to give up 100 points worth of players at 10-50 points per player.

Downie isn't a physical player and is nearly 34.

Hardiman does her easily for being a superior one on one defender and is only 24.

Pound is almost 10cm shorter than Hardiman.


At 24, and on the short end of the scale for her role, it might be best to get her signed elsewhere if she's worth 50 points.

In a league of short players 175cm isn't short.

Who are your suggestions for expansion signings? As I said before, every player is worth between 10 and 50 points, 100 points is the requirement, and a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 4 players must be moved on to expansion teams (Geelong & North).

I think we'd be better to shift players like Arnell and Downie if we can to bring more youth into the team. Lucas-Rodd can go too.
 

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Nov 4, 2003
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Hardiman is in our top 5 players.

We can't be letting any of our top 5 players go.
Our top 5 are:

Davey
Vescio
Sarah Hosking
Harris
Stevens

You could make a case for top 10, but then we come back to my argument about Brazzle and Hardiman versus renewing at the position and making use of Kennedy, Downie and Gillespie-Jones as part of that process.

It's pretty clear that you still don't understand that we are set to give up 2-4 players to Geelong and North Melbourne next year, as is every other Victorian team. It's not a bargain bin either, as there's a valuation system for each player (10-50 points) and a quota requirement to meet (100 points).

But by all means, rant on like I actually want to get rid of good players.
 
Sep 9, 2015
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Our top 5 are:

Davey
Vescio
Sarah Hosking
Harris
Stevens

You could make a case for top 10, but then we come back to my argument about Brazzle and Hardiman versus renewing at the position and making use of Kennedy, Downie and Gillespie-Jones as part of that process.

It's pretty clear that you still don't understand that we are set to give up 2-4 players to Geelong and North Melbourne next year, as is every other Victorian team. It's not a bargain bin either, as there's a valuation system for each player (10-50 points) and a quota requirement to meet (100 points).

But by all means, rant on like I actually want to get rid of good players.

Don't rate Hosking. Not our even our best onballer. Loynes is a better pure footballer.

Hardiman is also a pure footballer. Not some johnny come lately from another code or picking up a football in the last few years.

I understand we have to give up players. I just think it's a dumb move to give up Hardiman. Get rid of Arnell and Downie before a legit footballer like Danielle.

Why you'd rather keep a near 34 year old in Downie over a 24 year old top line defender I have no idea.
 
Nov 4, 2003
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Don't rate Hosking. Not our even our best onballer. Loynes is a better pure footballer.
Loynes is 32 and too slow off the mark to play at a stoppage because her knees are clearly wrecked. Sarah Hosking is clearly our best mid this year. Incredible that this needs to be explained to you more than once, and reflects how little you've watched this season.

Hardiman is also a pure footballer. Not some johnny come lately from another code or picking up a football in the last few years.
It's almost like professional female athletes could only play other sports professionally until 2017... waitasecond

I understand we have to give up players. I just think it's a dumb move to give up Hardiman. Get rid of Arnell and Downie before a legit footballer like Danielle.

Why you'd rather keep a near 34 year old in Downie over a 24 year old top line defender I have no idea.
You clearly have no grasp of the points system proposed, which include age and form as factors for assigning points (which is done by the AFLW All-Australian committee). Arnell and Downie would be worth nothing, which would only put even more pressure on us presenting a 50-point signing to meet the quota.

Feel free to nay-say every proposal and throw up completely unrealistic proposals somewhere else.
 
Sep 9, 2015
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Loynes is 32 and too slow off the mark to play at a stoppage because her knees are clearly wrecked. Sarah Hosking is clearly our best mid this year. Incredible that this needs to be explained to you more than once, and reflects how little you've watched this season.

Hosking is an utter lightweight v the good midfielders in the league.

The way you talk you'd think Hosking is quick, she isn't. Always getting run away from.

Even at 32 Loynes is a far higher skilled player than Hosking.


You clearly have no grasp of the points system proposed, which include age and form as factors for assigning points (which is done by the AFLW All-Australian committee). Arnell and Downie would be worth nothing, which would only put even more pressure on us presenting a 50-point signing to meet the quota.

Feel free to nay-say every proposal and throw up completely unrealistic proposals somewhere else.

I have a huge grasp on what makes a good footballer.

Arnell, Shierlaw, J.Hosking can go with some of the other drowned rat short people running around.

Our 5 untouchables should be Davey, Vescio, Moody, Harris and Hardiman.
 
Sep 9, 2015
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Davey HAS to go into the midfield if we want to be any chance to compete.

With that I'd be turning Gillespie-Jones into our big bodied full back and have Hardiman as either the CHB or third tall/rebounding half back(if Downie stays and plays on CHB) as she is one of our most penetrating kicks.
 
Nov 4, 2003
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tumblr_inline_o58r6dmSfe1suaed2_500.gif
 
From the Liddle letter:
"Our AFLW season has not gone as we had hoped. For a number of reasons, many of which were beyond our control, we have not been able to get a level of continuity or consistency within that program. Leading into the inaugural VFLW season, which commences in April, we will re-group quickly, identify areas for improvement and work hard to put ourselves in a position to rise back up the AFLW ladder in 2019."

Bit light on but it's a start.
 
Nov 4, 2003
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From the Liddle letter:
"Our AFLW season has not gone as we had hoped. For a number of reasons, many of which were beyond our control, we have not been able to get a level of continuity or consistency within that program. Leading into the inaugural VFLW season, which commences in April, we will re-group quickly, identify areas for improvement and work hard to put ourselves in a position to rise back up the AFLW ladder in 2019."

Bit light on but it's a start.
Do they honestly believe the problem was mostly Keeping going missing for 3 weeks and Bri going down? Get out of ******* town with that s**t.
 

jatz14

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Our top 5 are:

Davey
Vescio
Sarah Hosking
Harris
Stevens

You could make a case for top 10, but then we come back to my argument about Brazzle and Hardiman versus renewing at the position and making use of Kennedy, Downie and Gillespie-Jones as part of that process.

It's pretty clear that you still don't understand that we are set to give up 2-4 players to Geelong and North Melbourne next year, as is every other Victorian team. It's not a bargain bin either, as there's a valuation system for each player (10-50 points) and a quota requirement to meet (100 points).

But by all means, rant on like I actually want to get rid of good players.
Point system is scratched, its going to a more, they make an offer to a player, that players club can counter. AFLPA objected to the point system on the basis, the players offered up had no say. Upside, there is no minimum value of players to give up, downside, you have less control over which players you keep.
Likely there will be a shake up of how players are contracted as well. There will be more flexibility in being able to offer more to wanted players.
 
Nov 4, 2003
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Point system is scratched, its going to a more, they make an offer to a player, that players club can counter. AFLPA objected to the point system on the basis, the players offered up had no say. Upside, there is no minimum value of players to give up, downside, you have less control over which players you keep.
Likely there will be a shake up of how players are contracted as well. There will be more flexibility in being able to offer more to wanted players.
Hardiman stays! Nice. Still have a problem of run and carry from half-back though.
 

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