Play Nice 2018 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

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jatz14

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Stooge eh, I dont buy rank propaganda unlike some.
Comparison is only valid if done like for like, anything else is propaganda. No surprise that not including data that would be rank NRL propaganda is seen by you as AFL propaganda.

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Kwality

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Comparison is only valid if done like for like, anything else is propaganda. No surprise that not including data that would be rank NRL propaganda is seen by you as AFL propaganda.

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If AFL footy didnt attract bigger crowds than NRL, the MCG would be facing a similar future to Sydneys Olympic stadium. The bleedin' obvious !!
Ignore Origin because Aussie Rules (onya Leon) came up with concept but dont have a comparable product these days.
 

jatz14

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If AFL footy didnt attract bigger crowds than NRL, the MCG would be facing a similar future to Sydneys Olympic stadium. The bleedin' obvious !!
Ignore Origin because Aussie Rules (onya Leon) came up with concept but dont have a comparable product these days.
Ignore origin because in a comparison of NRL and AFL home and away attendance, it has no place.

You do realise not including Origin in a home and away comparison doesn't obscure Origin from us?

I am aware of Origin, and it's crowds despite it not being falsely included in this comparison.

For this to be a propaganda piece, we would need to be unaware of origin if it isn't included. So, if our only knowledge of origin crowds came from home and away crowd comparisons, then not including them, and thus hiding origin crowds from us would indeed be a nefarious piece of pro AFL sculldugery. Is this what you think has happened?

Frankly, with the degree of emphasis NRL places in origin and it's crowds, I would really enjoy a comparison showing AFL home and away thrashes NRL home and away, plus finals, plus origin.

I suspect we could add every other level of league as well.

Now, that would be a propoganda piece, NRL h&a, finals, origin, state leagues verse AFL h&a.

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The_Wookie

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& its been 'a tad selective' all that time, fodder for the AFL cheerleader set. Bit like the capital city TV ratings.

:thumbsu:
So collate your own goddamn data. And until you do, I really couldnt give a damn what you or anyone else thinks is a "tad selective". Its the data there is - and for the most part its the only actual comparable data because all the goddamn data isnt released. You want regional ratings compared, but you dont have regional AFL ratings for most games, so why the hell would i offer a comparison of national ratings including those? Theres nothing to compare and the data doesnt publicly exist, and calling me an afl cheerleader wont magically make them appear.

And thats not including the fact that when i started collecting ratings, there were no regional ratings publicly available - for any code. Or that im far from the only person who doesnt count representative match in domestic sporting competition figures. Ive never seen anyone include Origin crowd figures in NRL attendance figures.

If someone else wants to collate it all - and pay the oztam subscriptions - and post it differently then do so, until then I couldnt give a damn what you or anyone else thinks is selective about the data, because frankly its abundantly clear you dont know anything about the available data, or are just being plain ignorant.

When i compare domestic sporting leagues, its the goddamn sports league - the AFL, the NRL, the A-league, not the crowds and ratings for the entire goddamn sport. How this isnt blindingly obvious to everyone is astounding.
 

Kwality

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So collate your own goddamn data. And until you do, I really couldnt give a damn what you or anyone else thinks is a "tad selective". Its the data there is - and for the most part its the only actual comparable data because all the goddamn data isnt released. You want regional ratings compared, but you dont have regional AFL ratings for most games, so why the hell would i offer a comparison of national ratings including those? Theres nothing to compare and the data doesnt publicly exist, and calling me an afl cheerleader wont magically make them appear.

And thats not including the fact that when i started collecting ratings, there were no regional ratings publicly available - for any code. Or that im far from the only person who doesnt count representative match in domestic sporting competition figures. Ive never seen anyone include Origin crowd figures in NRL attendance figures.

If someone else wants to collate it all - and pay the oztam subscriptions - and post it differently then do so, until then I couldnt give a damn what you or anyone else thinks is selective about the data, because frankly its abundantly clear you dont know anything about the available data, or are just being plain ignorant.

When i compare domestic sporting leagues, its the goddamn sports league - the AFL, the NRL, the A-league, not the crowds and ratings for the entire goddamn sport. How this isnt blindingly obvious to everyone is astounding.
Your good work draws comment, how bout thst. Some not you dont like, wow !!
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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Your good work draws comment, how bout thst. Some not you dont like, wow !!
I dont think there's any way to do a fair comparison with any square oval codes. The simple reason is they're all played essentially in a line and televise very well.

I actually do like to watch rugby, personally soccer bores the hell out of me and Rugby League just makes me chuckle.

If I want to see a Bledisloe test the choice is between $250 (restricted view) or $400 prime seats. I choose to watch it on TV which has a better view.

I go to nearly all the Giants games at Spotless or Canberra. I've also attended every final. The reason is it drives me nuts watching on TV trying to peer at the TV from wierd angles trying to figure out unsuccessfully what's going on.

Aussue rules is fundamentally different. I watch it on TV as a last resort.
 

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Building a "Best-Case" for the other domestic sports to try and avoid the alleged "bias" on display:

Using the 2017 AFL and Rugby League figures (note I am using these so I can include the Rugby League World Cup which was last held in 2017 in Australia), and the 2016-17 A-League and BBL seasons (since their combined total is greater that season than in the other 2017 season), we can pull some interesting figures:

In 2017, the AFL Home and Away total attendance was 6,733,960 from 198 games, for an average of 34,010 per game.

During this period, the NRL was attended by 3,156,436, including finals, over 201 games. This is an average of just under 15,704 per game. At this rate, the NRL would require 429 games in a season to achieve the same attendance total as the AFL. For reference - maintaining a 9 game finals structure - this would require a 53 round season. But I'm sure our NRL boys wouldn't be so whiny like the AFL players about adequate breaks between games.

If we add State of Origin to the NRL total (which we obviously should - I mean, it's the AFL's fault for not having representative matches), we come to a total of 3,341,625 over 204 games. The average in this situation moves up to 16,381 per game.

If we step back, and compare the 3 other main domestic leagues in Australia (NRL, A-League, BBL) for Home and Away and finals, we come to a total of 5,981,447 over 371 games. This was from a total of 371 games, at an average of 16,122 per game. At this rate, each sport would require about 3 extra rounds while maintaining the same average crowds in order to reach the AFL Home and Away figure.

Now we consider the combined home and away and finals attendances for each of the 3 other leagues, and add State of Origin into the mix. We have now achieved a total attendance of 6,166,636 attendees for the period. We still need to find ways to make up the shortfall of 567,324 to the AFL Home and Away attendance figures.

Luckily for us, 2017 was a RLWC year, and obviously that should be included too! Now since the RLWC was hosted by Australia, we should add in the total attendance for the tournament (never mind some games were hosted in NZ and PNG - NZ is basically another state and PNG was previously administered by the Australian government - totally legitimate!) Once we add this, we reach a total figure of 6,571,769. Only 162,191 more spectators to go!

Now clearly we can include Socceroos games into this tally too. Better only include the ones hosted in Australia though - wouldn't want to seem like we are doing anything dodgy. Including Australian hosted international soccer games into the figure we reach a grand total of 6,803,166 - a whole 69,206 more attendees than the AFL.

So you're right - there is clearly some bias on display. We only need to include all of the NRL, A-League and BBL Home and Away and Finals attendees, the SOO attendees, all RLWC attendees (including games hosted in PNG and NZ), and the Australian hosted Socceroos games, to reach the AFL Home and Away figure.

And the extra half a million that year for AFL finals is nothing - all we need to do is host an extra RLWC and SOO series that year - no biggie at all!
 

NoobPie

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Building a "Best-Case" for the other domestic sports to try and avoid the alleged "bias" on display:

Using the 2017 AFL and Rugby League figures (note I am using these so I can include the Rugby League World Cup which was last held in 2017 in Australia), and the 2016-17 A-League and BBL seasons (since their combined total is greater that season than in the other 2017 season), we can pull some interesting figures:

In 2017, the AFL Home and Away total attendance was 6,733,960 from 198 games, for an average of 34,010 per game.

During this period, the NRL was attended by 3,156,436, including finals, over 201 games. This is an average of just under 15,704 per game. At this rate, the NRL would require 429 games in a season to achieve the same attendance total as the AFL. For reference - maintaining a 9 game finals structure - this would require a 53 round season. But I'm sure our NRL boys wouldn't be so whiny like the AFL players about adequate breaks between games.

If we add State of Origin to the NRL total (which we obviously should - I mean, it's the AFL's fault for not having representative matches), we come to a total of 3,341,625 over 204 games. The average in this situation moves up to 16,381 per game.

If we step back, and compare the 3 other main domestic leagues in Australia (NRL, A-League, BBL) for Home and Away and finals, we come to a total of 5,981,447 over 371 games. This was from a total of 371 games, at an average of 16,122 per game. At this rate, each sport would require about 3 extra rounds while maintaining the same average crowds in order to reach the AFL Home and Away figure.

Now we consider the combined home and away and finals attendances for each of the 3 other leagues, and add State of Origin into the mix. We have now achieved a total attendance of 6,166,636 attendees for the period. We still need to find ways to make up the shortfall of 567,324 to the AFL Home and Away attendance figures.

Luckily for us, 2017 was a RLWC year, and obviously that should be included too! Now since the RLWC was hosted by Australia, we should add in the total attendance for the tournament (never mind some games were hosted in NZ and PNG - NZ is basically another state and PNG was previously administered by the Australian government - totally legitimate!) Once we add this, we reach a total figure of 6,571,769. Only 162,191 more spectators to go!

Now clearly we can include Socceroos games into this tally too. Better only include the ones hosted in Australia though - wouldn't want to seem like we are doing anything dodgy. Including Australian hosted international soccer games into the figure we reach a grand total of 6,803,166 - a whole 69,206 more attendees than the AFL.

So you're right - there is clearly some bias on display. We only need to include all of the NRL, A-League and BBL Home and Away and Finals attendees, the SOO attendees, all RLWC attendees (including games hosted in PNG and NZ), and the Australian hosted Socceroos games, to reach the AFL Home and Away figure.

And the extra half a million that year for AFL finals is nothing - all we need to do is host an extra RLWC and SOO series that year - no biggie at all!
TLDR: Another AFL stooge
 

Our Game

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A League marque match MV v WSW at ANZ Sydney on a Sat night could only draw 7000 oh dear!
Meanwhile at Perth Stadium for BBL 40,500
Even with 8100 at Melb Stars V Sydney Thunder and both not local teams at the GC the BBL still got more than the soccer
 

NoobPie

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A League marque match MV v WSW at ANZ Sydney on a Sat night could only draw 7000 oh dear!
Meanwhile at Perth Stadium for BBL 40,500
Even with 8100 at Melb Stars V Sydney Thunder and both not local teams at the GC the BBL still got more than the soccer
The TV ratings are even more dire

32K (Friday night), 33K and 45k (for last night) for the round thus far for the A League
 

BobbyMorri

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A League marque match MV v WSW at ANZ Sydney on a Sat night could only draw 7000 oh dear!
Meanwhile at Perth Stadium for BBL 40,500
Even with 8100 at Melb Stars V Sydney Thunder and both not local teams at the GC the BBL still got more than the soccer
Marquee?????

WSW are poor this year and away from home at ANZ, a place which never has good attendance(AFL included).

Just because it was a Saturday night match, doesn't make it a marquee match. Or do you count Carlton v Stkilda on a Friday might a marquee match as well.

The TV ratings are even more dire

32K (Friday night), 33K and 45k (for last night) for the round thus far for the A League
Correct me if I am wrong, but werent the ratings at the very start of the year where about 20K(ish) higher on average on all accounts.

For the slow middle part of the year with heavy competition, it really hasn't dropped off the cliff as others have stated.Don't get me wrong, % wise it is a high rate of loss of fans and the numbers are shocking, but It seems to have a very loyal small base of fans, who are watching most of the games. Makes me think they aren't getting many neutral sports fans interested in the league. Just my observation.
 

Rob

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For the slow middle part of the year with heavy competition, it really hasn't dropped off the cliff as others have stated.Don't get me wrong, % wise it is a high rate of loss of fans and the numbers are shocking, but It seems to have a very loyal small base of fans, who are watching most of the games. Makes me think they aren't getting many neutral sports fans interested in the league. Just my observation.
Those Fox numbers are ridiculously bad. And getting worse - I don't know how low they'd need to get to have "dropped off the cliff", but at the very least it's teetering on the edge. Crowds might be down, but in comparison to the TV numbers they're actually pretty good. That a TV broadcast of a sporting event can get 30k nationally, including regionals yet get 10k at the ground says a bit about the loyalty of the hard core base (as you say).
In saying that - i've got the game in Melbourne on now and there couldn't be more than a few thousand in, you can hear individuals in the crowd shout. Even the hard core base has it's limits.
 

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In soccer any Sydney V Melbourne game should be a Marquee match.

It wasnt that long ago the WSW were the darlings of Australian soccer and getting big crowds.
But 7000 at the major stadium in a city of 5 million on Sat night is pathetic.

The A League has some very big problems with increased competition from other sports for crowds and TV ratings and if they expand too quickly it will only make the situation worse.
 

BobbyMorri

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In soccer any Sydney V Melbourne game should be a Marquee match.

It wasnt that long ago the WSW were the darlings of Australian soccer and getting big crowds.
But 7000 at the major stadium in a city of 5 million on Sat night is pathetic.

The A League has some very big problems with increased competition from other sports for crowds and TV ratings and if they expand too quickly it will only make the situation worse.
what part of being homeless don't you understand? It is hard to take anything you say seriously when you can't even comprehend(or simply don't care) the simple fact that a team playing away from home gets fewer people to games. Let alone all the issues ANZ has had in the past. They would be better off playing it in a smaller stadium in the suburbs.

And in a couple of years, there will be 6 teams from either city. So no, not every Sydney v Melbourne game should be a marquee. Heck, as Rob has said, I wouldn't even say Melbourne City v anyone bar Victory is. WSW v Melbourne is a big game, but it is not the Big Blue nor is it a Derby. It relies on good performances from both sides to work really catch. WSW are poor this year. Ohhh, and it was raining last night as well.

Also, the BBl isnt new. It has been around for 8 years. Tennis even longer. It is the same competition nearly every year, and every year, the A-league starts "well" and then slowly drops off till final. Its not new.
 

BobbyMorri

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Those Fox numbers are ridiculously bad. And getting worse - I don't know how low they'd need to get to have "dropped off the cliff", but at the very least it's teetering on the edge. Crowds might be down, but in comparison to the TV numbers they're actually pretty good. That a TV broadcast of a sporting event can get 30k nationally, including regionals yet get 10k at the ground says a bit about the loyalty of the hard core base (as you say).
In saying that - i've got the game in Melbourne on now and there couldn't be more than a few thousand in, you can hear individuals in the crowd shout. Even the hard core base has it's limits.
perhaps Wookie can help me here, but how do they calculate Pay TV ratings. Is it the same as FTA with rating boxes. I know 30K in FTA is, in reality, not many boxes at all.

I honestly think the A-leagues biggest competition is not BBL, AFL etc, but the 100's of soccer leagues all around the world.
 

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Also, the BBl isnt new. It has been around for 8 years. Tennis even longer. It is the same competition nearly every year, and every year, the A-league starts "well" and then slowly drops off till final. Its not new.[/QUOTE]

Their crowds are stagnant or going backwards. Try telling that to the soccer urgers!
They think their self proclaimed "beautiful game" should be #1 where ever it is played but it aint in Australia.

"Let alone all the issues ANZ has had in the past. They would be better off playing it in a smaller stadium in the suburbs."
Why dont WSW play at a lesser ground? Oh of course they do at Spotless and get shit crowds there as well.Maybe just maybe the sporting public have made up their minds that the A league is a third rate comp and not worth spending their hard earned on..
 

BobbyMorri

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Also, the BBl isnt new. It has been around for 8 years. Tennis even longer. It is the same competition nearly every year, and every year, the A-league starts "well" and then slowly drops off till final. Its not new.

Their crowds are stagnant or going backwards. Try telling that to the soccer urgers!
They think their self proclaimed "beautiful game" should be #1 where ever it is played but it aint in Australia.

"Let alone all the issues ANZ has had in the past. They would be better off playing it in a smaller stadium in the suburbs."
Why dont WSW play at a lesser ground? Oh of course they do at Spotless and get shit crowds there as well.Maybe just maybe the sporting public have made up their minds that the A league is a third rate comp and not worth spending their hard earned on..
Spotless is a big oval. again not ideal. let alone the issues with how often other sports(concerts) use the oval. WSW have stuffed up their time away from Parra. Hopefully, better results next year inside the new stadium will get the fans back.

I was thinking more about where Sydney FC play. Though it is an "oval" as well, it is a very small one, similar to Lakeside. It is the blueprint for other other clubs. (hey Brisbane, Wellington).

You really can't comment on the soccer cheerleaders.
 

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[QUOTE="BobbyMorri, post: 59262378,

You really can't comment on the soccer cheerleaders.[/QUOTE]

But I will because they are so deluded!I dont have to dream or fantasize about the AFL because it is the biggest and best already and leaves every other football code in Australia in its wake..

They must be a state of shock with their beloved Socceroos getting done by lowly Jordan.
 
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