Play Nice 2018 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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1. Yes, they are all not completely accurate.

The official nos. reported by all sports (including the AFL, FFA, NRL & RA) would have some player, sometimes, being counted twice or thrice- but the actual sports' own registrations are the most accurate figures available.
Soccer, due to its "easy" format/rules/relative safety/good recovery times/12 month pa playing availablity would have the most nos. of players who are counted, officially, multiple times.

AFL Victoria states, in 2018, Vic. has 80,000 AF volunteers.

https://aflvic.com.au/record-participation-for-football-in-victoria/

If the FFA is including volunteers, then the AFL can also include its, c.200,000, volunteers. This would result in Official AFL nos. being very close to official FFA nos.

2. Marketing experts are claiming that the NRL off-season scandals will have long term negative effects on the levels of funding it will receive from sponsors.

https://www.nambuccaguardian.com.au/story/5903771/nrl-warned-of-sponsor-exodus-over-scandals/

SEN Radio 28.2 G. Whateley program interviewed an NRL reporter (didn't hear the name)- who said the NRL has lost c. $10,000,000 in sponsorship due to the current negative publicity generated by the off-field poor NRL player behaviour/reporting.
I’m surprised that AFL don’t count volunteers like soccer if you can get away with it.
 

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HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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Given Australian Football requires double or triple the volunteers of other sports, you can hear the outcry now if the AFL started counting volunteers.
The cynic in me would guess they are just waiting for the boom in female growth to end and will add them as soon as their is any negative growth. It makes no sense why they wouldn’t if other sports are.
 

BobbyMorri

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I have provided numerous quotes & Links in this thread by soccer officials where they have made false claims re their participant nos., & those of other codes.
Do you agree they are falsehoods? And do you support them making these falsehoods?
FFA don't have to do anything. Why do the FFA have to go with any other sports method, if indeed they count differently? Your whole burden of proof regarding volunteers is one quote from someone from Tasmania and probably out of context. What is a player, what is a volunteer? It is an impossible question the further and further in you decide to count. The only numbers which have any meaning are the number or clubs and players playing for a club. But even then, I have little faith in organisations being totally truthful. Heck, half the time here, we have people questioning attendance figures.

Would i like more reliable numbers? yes.. Is that ever going to happen? Hell no. Reckon if I went into each sport participation figures, each one would say it grew in some way. Funny that organisations are so worried that the new gen are not going to engage in traditional sports yet, they keep on growing year on year.
 

BobbyMorri

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definition of participant has to be established before claiming you beat everyone else.
They could quote the Ausplay numbers. They could quote that A+B+C+BC>A+C from another sport. Their response(which they won't give to mutts like us) would be some sort of spin to prove they are right.

It is not like the AFL have been accused in the past about fudging Auskick figures.
 

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The_Wookie

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They could quote the Ausplay numbers. They could quote that A+B+C+BC>A+C from another sport. Their response(which they won't give to mutts like us) would be some sort of spin to prove they are right.

It is not like the AFL have been accused in the past about fudging Auskick figures.
A week ago they came out an claimed their particpation numbers v everyone elses meant they should get more funding. You cant do that if you cant establish a baseline for participation.

The AFL werent out there in 2011 claiming they had more than everyone else so please give us the oval instead of everyone else.
 

BobbyMorri

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A week ago they came out an claimed their particpation numbers v everyone elses meant they should get more funding. You cant do that if you cant establish a baseline for participation.

The AFL werent out there in 2011 claiming they had more than everyone else so please give us the oval instead of everyone else.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/afl-accused-of-exploiting-figures-20120723-22knq.html
THE NSW/ACT AFL has been accused of exaggerating its registered players in the Leichhardt municipality, calling into the question the sporting body's numbers across Sydney.

Before tonight's Leichhardt Council meeting to decide whether Australian football will be played on Birchgrove Oval
nah, they wouldn't do that.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Probably was an honest mistake and the Sydney NRL press seized on it. I am sure you know more about it than I do.

Soccer comes out as the most played in most surveys, so it is not a big stretch. But i don't care about that.

Do other sports do what you ask the FFA? Would you be able to go up to AFL headquarters and get a detailed list of all the numbers and where they come from? And i don't mean that colourful sheet of paper they do. The FFA do one very similar.
 

jatz14

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https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/afl-accused-of-exploiting-figures-20120723-22knq.html


nah, they wouldn't do that.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Probably was an honest mistake and the Sydney NRL press seized on it. I am sure you know more about it than I do.

Soccer comes out as the most played in most surveys, so it is not a big stretch. But i don't care about that.

Do other sports do what you ask the FFA? Would you be able to go up to AFL headquarters and get a detailed list of all the numbers and where they come from? And i don't mean that colourful sheet of paper they do. The FFA do one very similar.
The FFA do not need to do a detailed breakdown, nor do the AFL. However, if they, or any other sport is requesting funding based on grass roots numbers, then generic participation figures should be treated with a bit of disdain by government.

The reason sports don't do this, beyond that it is hard to do, is what happens when the figures do not look rosy?

Someone posted somewhere that the recent Tas soccer figures showing a participation rise masks a small fall in the number of actual players.

Rubbery figures allow the info to be presented in the best light. The downside is they shouldn't be then taken to seriously.

No one is saying the FFA is particularly worse than other sports, just that the plethora of social and summer soccer leagues gives the FFA much more rubbery figures to work with than other sports.


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The_Wookie

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https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/afl-accused-of-exploiting-figures-20120723-22knq.html


nah, they wouldn't do that.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Probably was an honest mistake and the Sydney NRL press seized on it. I am sure you know more about it than I do.

Soccer comes out as the most played in most surveys, so it is not a big stretch. But i don't care about that.

Do other sports do what you ask the FFA? Would you be able to go up to AFL headquarters and get a detailed list of all the numbers and where they come from? And i don't mean that colourful sheet of paper they do. The FFA do one very similar.
Again lets pull stuff from 7 years ago, before the AFL ran an audit of its processes and changed everything. Its also worth noting that 1) Council offered the Oval, the AFL didnt ask for it and 2) the media campaign was run by Fairfax in Sydney whose editor just happened to be involved with a soccer club that also wanted facilities.

Other sports arent out there claiming they are hard done by compared to other sports on a dollars per participant basis.
 

BobbyMorri

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Again lets pull stuff from 7 years ago, before the AFL ran an audit of its processes and changed everything. Its also worth noting that 1) Council offered the Oval, the AFL didnt ask for it and 2) the media campaign was run by Fairfax in Sydney whose editor just happened to be involved with a soccer club that also wanted facilities.

Other sports arent out there claiming they are hard done by compared to other sports on a dollars per participant basis.
Again....... That was the first time i mentioned it. I also said that you would know more about it than me and that I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Not exactly laying in the boot there.

I dont trust any organisations numbers. I see them as marketing disguised as information. Official Clubs numbers and players are beneficial but participation...please. Continual growth year on year.

When the whole $/participant was brought up the first time i said

But i find the whole "by the numbers" approach flawed. Every sport and club have different needs and it is a simplistic approach to just say a sport should get said funding just because it has x number of people. It is far too simplistic.

Our democracy "works" via lobbying for funding. That is the role of sporting organisations. You would hope that they would be able to make a really good case for more funding if little Timmy couldn't play on the weekend because there are no facilities available. For me, that is the most important aspect of sporting funding at grassroots level. That every kid/adult can play.

We get one of these articles about a sport every month or so. It must be soccers turn. Next month will be the other 2 football codes. Not saying the articles are not right, but every sport always wants more funding.
The FFA are trying to make a case for more general funding by using its strength. good for them. Just because we may not like the argument, doesn't make it deliberately misleading or ineffective. It is the government's job to either listen to the FFA or ignore it. In other words, lobbying, like the whole "'Dress it up as women's sport': the new pork barrel'" article.
 

manicmagpie

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Interesting listening to Ernie Merrick absolutely slamming the changeroom facilities at Kardinia Park after the Victory - Newcastle game there tonight. Apparently ridiculously cramped and with no air conditioning on this 38 degree day. Will be submitting a complaint to the league. Presumably they didn’t get the AFL rooms, if so why not?

The turnout looked pretty poor as well. Not the greatest given Western United will be playing several games there next season.
 

BobbyMorri

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Interesting listening to Ernie Merrick absolutely slamming the changeroom facilities at Kardinia Park after the Victory - Newcastle game there tonight. Apparently ridiculously cramped and with no air conditioning on this 38 degree day. Will be submitting a complaint to the league. Presumably they didn’t get the AFL rooms, if so why not?

The turnout looked pretty poor as well. Not the greatest given Western United will be playing several games there next season.
8K there. The Geelong game got 22K back in 2015 and has steadily decreased since then. They expected 15K tonight so it must have been a shocking member turnout or a very bad prediction.

Western United are playing every game there for the next 2 seasons so that decrease would be of huge concern. My question...Why would any changerooms at a modern facility not have Air Con....
 

jatz14

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8K there. The Geelong game got 22K back in 2015 and has steadily decreased since then. They expected 15K tonight so it must have been a shocking member turnout or a very bad prediction.

Western United are playing every game there for the next 2 seasons so that decrease would be of huge concern. My question...Why would any changerooms at a modern facility not have Air Con....
Another question, why is it coming up now? Wouldnt they get all this sorted as part of the bidding process?



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Gigantor

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Interesting listening to Ernie Merrick absolutely slamming the changeroom facilities at Kardinia Park after the Victory - Newcastle game there tonight. Apparently ridiculously cramped and with no air conditioning on this 38 degree day. Will be submitting a complaint to the league. Presumably they didn’t get the AFL rooms, if so why not?

The turnout looked pretty poor as well. Not the greatest given Western United will be playing several games there next season.
must have been given the sheilas rooms
 

Rob

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Another question, why is it coming up now? Wouldnt they get all this sorted as part of the bidding process?
I get the feeling the bidding process was:

Are you from Sydney or Melbourne?

If so, how much are you prepared to pay?

Everything else didn't matter.
 
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In my post #1564, I outlined:-

. mainland Chinese (all "private" companies & organisations are, ultimately, totally controlled by the Chinese Communist Party) full or partial ownership in some A League clubs, & the failed Chinese-financed Southern Sydney bid for a new A League licence.
(Oddly, it still has not been publicly announced who the financial backers of the new Western United club are).

. Chinese Soft Power ambitions, to further their interests, in other countries; & the concerns/ opprobrium this might attract in the target countries- which might have negative impacts on the A League.

Last night, former PM M.Turnbull made an important speech in London on the military "threat" of China posed by claiming & creating artificial reef islands (illegally, according to all International Courts), & building military bases on them; & cyber security/hacking/theft of intellectual property.

Turnbull said Australia was "...defending our own sovereignty...on national security grounds"; & that Australia was the first country in the world to ban Chinese companies Huawei & ZTE from having an involvement in our 5G network (Other countries have, also, since done this).

Chinese Soft Power risks are a bipartisan political issue in Australia, & are likely to increase.
The FFA & A League model is to seek extensive private funding for all its A League clubs, who are to be 100% privately owned.
If this funding derives from mainland China (and/or despotic, brutal Middle Eastern oil potentates), is the FFA risking a public backlash?

https://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/address-to-the-henry-jackson-society-london
 

BobbyMorri

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Chinese Soft Power risks are a bipartisan political issue in Australia, & are likely to increase.
The FFA & A League model is to seek extensive private funding for all its A League clubs, who are to be 100% privately owned.
If this funding derives from mainland China (and/or despotic, brutal Middle Eastern oil potentates), is the FFA risking a public backlash?

https://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/media/address-to-the-henry-jackson-society-london
Is sport risking a public backlash? Is sport risking a public backlash when they let gambling companies or foreign government companies sponsor them? I mean, it isn't a soccer club moving away games to China and Soccer isn't the only sport who have 100% private ownership.

And in case you have forgotten, Melbourne City is owned by a Middle East ownership group. They are struggling but you can't blame that on nationalist fever you suggest.

Was there a public backlash when a Saudi prince was rumoured to be interesting in Man Utd? I say yes, but it was the same as when the Glazers took over them. I personally despise payday lenders and was unhappy when Wonga(a payday lender in England) sponsored Newcastle United. Sport and "dirty" money is an issue but where do you draw the line. Emirates airline is owned wholly by the UAE but I don't see many people unhappy with their sponsorship of an awful lot of things.
 
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