List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 1

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Joffaboy

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Not an excuse , poorly coached .

Been saying it for a while , have been saying it about Brandon White, Jack Sinclair ,Jack Steele,
Shane Savage & Luke Dunstan all have been victims of poor development to me.
Lame excuse. And your examples

All have been played in their best positions. Savage is lost up forward and is not a mid, Steele is in his right position after stuffing him around earlier. A pure inside mid and going very nicely, no idea what you are on about with White, but Sinclair is going great guns after being a rookie.

Dunstan, like Acres is just a GOP and not really that good at that. Too slow for outside mid, average kick. Would trade him alongside the overrated and underperforming Acres.

Both major dissapointments, they have been given multiple chances and have shown they cant really football that well. Sinclair, Membrey, Roberton, Webster, Ed Phillips, now McKenzie all much lower picks, have shown what good development and backing themselves will do.

Have to say, Dunstan and Acres are looking like busts ATM
 

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st_trav_ofWA

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Have to say, Dunstan and Acres are looking like busts ATM
thats cause they are not utilised properly ... i can tell you Blake was chomping at the bit to get going at 2018.. he put in the extra work, he spent the second half of 2017 emulating Rooey to get his training and profesionalism up to that level to give him the best chance of making it as the player we all hope he can become ... for the start of the year he was showing it was paying off then our numbskull coaching department started using him as a mr fix it, putting him in roles he wasnt really equip for, til he got injured ..

looking at his stats compared to say Patric Cripps who is being talked up as the best young big bodied midfielder they are pretty comparable but Blake get pushed to play a high forward, to the wing , to the backline , to the ruck to deep forwrd when Cripps plays in his pure middle role...

Blake knows hes not the mr fix it his skills are not there to dominate every position but he can be great playing in the middle ... at another team (lets say freo) he will be played in an actual role he can grow and develop in and he will become a top line player in the comp.... sticking with this current trend with our plans on him he will become an up and down alsso ran player... we need to throw out that mindset cause its not benefiting our team and its certainly not making blake a better player
 

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To answer your question no definitely not.

But would you pay pick 5 for Cerra in this draft?

He’s literally played 3.5 decent games and honestly Brayshaw (who is more physically developed ill admit) has been better this year.

I sure as hell wouldn’t. I had massive wraps on Cerra last year if people remember and had him probably second best player after LDU but all drafts aren’t equal. He went at pick 5 last year and genuinely probably wouldn’t be a top 10 pick this year (going off junior careers). He’s far too injury prone

Now to bring Acres into this. Endurance beast and was putting it together this year.

Acres for Cerra would have both set of fans feeling they got shafted.
I realise every draft is different. I’m not sure give up 5, but definitely a pick around 8-10.

It wouldn’t matter what the draft was, I don’t think there’s be a club that would give up a top 5 pick for Acres. Maybe the couple that were screwed by the mini draft?

As far as Brayshaw v Cerra, I can’t agree at all that Brayshaw has been better. May have found more of the footy but Cerra has been much cleaner and more damaging which is why he’d be one of the favourites for the Rising Star.

I just think we overrate our own at times. Blake has shown glimpses of being terrific but he’s yet to show it consistently. I think if you were to ask neutral’s on the main board most would agree Acres wouldn’t get the deal done.
 

Stewart66

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Pre-season i would have agreed with you whole heartedly ... right now i reckon he would consider it ... he is contracted so its not like he will walk out but i dont think he is really happy with the way he has been handled this season ... wouldnt be a huge surprise to me to see him floated for trade

God I will laugh when we trade him and he embarrasses a few.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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God I will laugh when we trade him and he embarrasses a few.
i wont laugh ... ill be gutted that not only have we thrown away a decent player but we are giving the team he go's to a leg up just cause we dont know how to develop a player better ...
far out i shudder to think the player Blake would be right now had he been drafted to the Swans not the saints ...
 

Stewart66

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i wont laugh ... ill be gutted that not only have we thrown away a decent player but we are giving the team he go's to a leg up just cause we dont know how to develop a player better ...
far out i shudder to think the player Blake would be right now had he been drafted to the Swans not the saints ...
Yep looking forward to it actually mate and Dunstan gets welcomed back to Crow land .

We keep McKenzie though ...ha ha I am still laughing .
 

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thats cause they are not utilised properly ... i can tell you Blake was chomping at the bit to get going at 2018.. he put in the extra work, he spent the second half of 2017 emulating Rooey to get his training and profesionalism up to that level to give him the best chance of making it as the player we all hope he can become ... for the start of the year he was showing it was paying off then our numbskull coaching department started using him as a mr fix it, putting him in roles he wasnt really equip for, til he got injured ..

looking at his stats compared to say Patric Cripps who is being talked up as the best young big bodied midfielder they are pretty comparable but Blake get pushed to play a high forward, to the wing , to the backline , to the ruck to deep forwrd when Cripps plays in his pure middle role...

Blake knows hes not the mr fix it his skills are not there to dominate every position but he can be great playing in the middle ... at another team (lets say freo) he will be played in an actual role he can grow and develop in and he will become a top line player in the comp.... sticking with this current trend with our plans on him he will become an up and down alsso ran player... we need to throw out that mindset cause its not benefiting our team and its certainly not making blake a better player
Cripps and Acres not comparable at all. Cripps averages double the contested possessions that Acres does. I’m sure if Blake was capable of doing that he would be by now.
 

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Says a lot doesn't it. What a disappointment.

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His contested possession count is amongst the highest in the team and his use of the ball was amongst the best.
On my list of disappointments for 2018 Acres is currently rating negative 15 on my list .
 

Browny2Carlisle

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Cripps and Acres not comparable at all. Cripps averages double the contested possessions that Acres does. I’m sure if Blake was capable of doing that he would be by now.
Compare him to De Goey and get back to me.
Got blinkers on if you reckon Acres is no good imo. Would be an idiotic move to get rid of him. One we will be discussing with regret and disgust in the future if it happens.
 

karaoke

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Went hard at him a year or two ago....nearly got him too....this time maybe?
Good mates with Seb Ross, both Horsham boys.

These opportunities (be it Lloyd or other) need to be looked at.

Might not fill the high profile we exactly seek, but a quality ball user out of the backline (Joey role) we could definitely use.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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Cripps and Acres not comparable at all. Cripps averages double the contested possessions that Acres does. I’m sure if Blake was capable of doing that he would be by now.
that would be because where Blake is played ... how many CP would Crips get playing high forward ? how many would he get from the wing ???
 

FQFjt

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Why would we want to trade Acres for Cerra? I don't get it...what is it with everyone wanting to trade our best players.

Oh, and I saw somewhere before Weller to GCS for a 2nd rounder. Absolute lol. He's bloody average and they delisted him a few years ago. He's not worth anything to them, or any other club.
I think your point 2 answers point 1.
 
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Good mates with Seb Ross, both Horsham boys.

These opportunities (be it Lloyd or other) need to be looked at.

Might not fill the high profile we exactly seek, but a quality ball user out of the backline (Joey role) we could definitely use.
Lloyd would be a good get - especially if Robbo has to retire. Very underrated player.
 
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that would be because where Blake is played ... how many CP would Crips get playing high forward ? how many would he get from the wing ???
I find it hard to believe that this is the sole reason. If Blake is really that much of a contested beast then i'm sure he would be displaying it in match simulation at training and the coaches would be forced to play him there.

The more likely reason is that he just isn't that dominant as an inside player and we have better options, thus forcing him to play elsewhere (or maybe we have equally good options but he is more versatile so gets forced out).

It's a bit like in the NBA when people look at someone's per 36 stats and say if only they played 30 minutes a night they would score 30 points. Generally there is a reason they aren't playing 30 minutes a night. Coaches do what will give them the best chance of winning, if Blake really was Cripps then that would mean playing him in the middle.
 

t_94

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Unfortunately we have too many mids that aren't as versatile as Blake so he's the one that gets moved around.
Time to cut some of the less versatile plodders.

I would like to see a midfield of: Steven, Ross, Acres, One of Steele/ Dunstan , Clark, Walsh / Smith and Gresham starting to rotate next year.
 

Half Back Pocket

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More is not better...

Take pick 3 to the draft, draft a blue chip gun.

Turn over Hickey/Longer/Paddy/Bruce for a pick 20-30 and be done with it.
Pick 3 & 57 Pick 8 & 15

Plowman & Horsley - Mayes & Garner
Billings & J Hunt - McDonald & Dunstan
Brayshaw & D Howard - Wright & Boekhorst
Oliver & Mutimer - Ah Chee & Gresham
McLuggage & E Phillips - Logue & Powell-Pepper

imo, looks like 3 & 57 is a better bet than 8 & 15
 

Joffaboy

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thats cause they are not utilised properly ... i can tell you Blake was chomping at the bit to get going at 2018.. he put in the extra work, he spent the second half of 2017 emulating Rooey to get his training and profesionalism up to that level to give him the best chance of making it as the player we all hope he can become ... for the start of the year he was showing it was paying off then our numbskull coaching department started using him as a mr fix it, putting him in roles he wasnt really equip for, til he got injured ..

looking at his stats compared to say Patric Cripps who is being talked up as the best young big bodied midfielder they are pretty comparable but Blake get pushed to play a high forward, to the wing , to the backline , to the ruck to deep forwrd when Cripps plays in his pure middle role...

Blake knows hes not the mr fix it his skills are not there to dominate every position but he can be great playing in the middle ... at another team (lets say freo) he will be played in an actual role he can grow and develop in and he will become a top line player in the comp.... sticking with this current trend with our plans on him he will become an up and down alsso ran player... we need to throw out that mindset cause its not benefiting our team and its certainly not making blake a better player
Acres can't play mid. His brain is too slow, his reflexes aren't up to it.

He is better suited outside, but unfortunately he is pedestrian paced.

He hasnt come on and it is his fault. Reason he doesn't get played in the middle is he doesn't show he can.

What is the predictliction of posters to play our players in positions they have no capacity to play.
The other week it was Billings to the mids and coaches were idiots. This week Acres there when he has shown he can't.
All well and good to be chomping at the bit, but actions speak louder tha n words.
Acres is a dissapointmnent. Mentioning him and Cripps is like mentioning Hickey with Nic Nat, no comparison.
Need to cut our losses. Hopefully Acres has fooled a WA team like he has many here and we can get something for him.


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Joffaboy

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I find it hard to believe that this is the sole reason. If Blake is really that much of a contested beast then i'm sure he would be displaying it in match simulation at training and the coaches would be forced to play him there.

The more likely reason is that he just isn't that dominant as an inside player and we have better options, thus forcing him to play elsewhere (or maybe we have equally good options but he is more versatile so gets forced out).

It's a bit like in the NBA when people look at someone's per 36 stats and say if only they played 30 minutes a night they would score 30 points. Generally there is a reason they aren't playing 30 minutes a night. Coaches do what will give them the best chance of winning, if Blake really was Cripps then that would mean playing him in the middle.
This is the point exactly. Obviously not showing anything at match sim or training otherwise he would get a go there.

But no the coaches deliberately play him out of position so we lose and they are fired.

All makes perfect sense.

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luca77

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I'm undecided about Acres, which I think is pretty normal for a player of his age/experience.
He's a great size and a really good mover with decent skills.
Same could be said about Raph Clarke. The scars linger. He was the great white hope!
(not all that white I guess)
Hopefully Blake comes back from injury fired up and makes geese of some on here!
 
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