List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 1

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FQFjt

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I find it hard to believe that this is the sole reason. If Blake is really that much of a contested beast then i'm sure he would be displaying it in match simulation at training and the coaches would be forced to play him there.

The more likely reason is that he just isn't that dominant as an inside player and we have better options, thus forcing him to play elsewhere (or maybe we have equally good options but he is more versatile so gets forced out).

It's a bit like in the NBA when people look at someone's per 36 stats and say if only they played 30 minutes a night they would score 30 points. Generally there is a reason they aren't playing 30 minutes a night. Coaches do what will give them the best chance of winning, if Blake really was Cripps then that would mean playing him in the middle.
You have fallen into the trap of assuming that mythological Acres is the same person as real life Acres. Mythological Acres is closer to unicorn than goat.
 

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Joffaboy

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Let's get one thing straight.

There is no way in the wide world there will be a swap with Freo involving Cerra and Acres.
Like Weller, they would demand pick 3 for him. He is contracted and RTB doesn't do favours.
Acres also contracted and we would take nothing less than a first rounder and a fairly high one, probs between 10-20.
Neither will occur so Acres is with us for at least a season and a half.

Up to him to force his way into the mids. If he can, good on him, if he can't, I hope he kills it off a wing or HFF.
Whatever, I hope he improves and helps the Saints.

Just cause I think he is overrated doesn't mean I don't support him.



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st_trav_ofWA

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I find it hard to believe that this is the sole reason. If Blake is really that much of a contested beast then i'm sure he would be displaying it in match simulation at training and the coaches would be forced to play him there.

The more likely reason is that he just isn't that dominant as an inside player and we have better options, thus forcing him to play elsewhere (or maybe we have equally good options but he is more versatile so gets forced out).

It's a bit like in the NBA when people look at someone's per 36 stats and say if only they played 30 minutes a night they would score 30 points. Generally there is a reason they aren't playing 30 minutes a night. Coaches do what will give them the best chance of winning, if Blake really was Cripps then that would mean playing him in the middle.
from what i hear there has been talk all season about the reasoning why they are using Blake to plug holes realistically we have mids who are really not setting the world on fire who are getting games there on the back of the fact they cannot do anything else.. Blake is seen as expendable because he can at least give a contest in other positions ... ive heard of a heap of heated conversations from the assistant coaches wanting to use Blake diferantly but Richo over rules and blake get used as mr everywhere....

you talk about contested possessions Blakes stats against those who are meant to be our contested possesion winners who are consistantly in the middle is pretty tellng
for this season Blake averages 9.3 contested posessions per game playing only short spurts in the centre the rest of the group :
Dunstan : 10.8
Armo : 5.6
Steele : 8.8
Steven : 10.3
Koby: 5.5
Seb: 10.2
 
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This is the point exactly. Obviously not showing anything at match sim or training otherwise he would get a go there.

But no the coaches deliberately play him out of position so we lose and they are fired.

All makes perfect sense.

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I understand your point, to be fair we have no quality depth in HFF and FP, if we did the Blake would have to compete for a place as a full time mid and we'd have a much better idea of how good he really is, as we have no depth for medium forwards and realistically only Membrey on the list, Blake gets used as an alternative simply because he is the most likely of the midfield group to make an impact. Blake playing as a utility says more positively about his all round talent and more negatively about our poor list management.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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I understand your point, to be fair we have no quality depth in HFF and FP, if we did the Blake would have to compete for a place as a full time mid and we'd have a much better idea of how good he really is, as we have no depth for medium forwards and realistically only Membrey on the list, Blake gets used as an alternative simply because he is the most likely of the midfield group to make an impact. Blake playing as a utility says more positively about his all round talent and more negatively about our poor list management.
exactly if we had the holes filled with suitable players then Blake is compeating with Armo, Koby, Steele & Dunstan for that midfield spot alongside Ross and Steven ... as it sits right now Blake has three of those 4 covered easily
 

Joffaboy

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I understand your point, to be fair we have no quality depth in HFF and FP, if we did the Blake would have to compete for a place as a full time mid and we'd have a much better idea of how good he really is, as we have no depth for medium forwards and realistically only Membrey on the list, Blake gets used as an alternative simply because he is the most likely of the midfield group to make an impact. Blake playing as a utility says more positively about his all round talent and more negatively about our poor list management.
Don't need him as a medium forward, Battle is already better than him there.

Up to him to force his way into the midfield. Let's face it, he is not up against Selwood, Danger, and Ablett for a spot.
Speaks volumes he can't cement a spot in the mids. If he was like Steven or Ross his form would DEMAND he plays there.
But it doesn't. Hence why I think he is presently overrated.
Got potential but so did Tambling, so did Watts.
Someone mentioned Raph Clarke.

Eerily similar.

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gringo2011

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Not sure about gaining value, but being contracted, I can’t see how he loses value. Especially after a cracking start to the year.

This years pick 5 would be worth much more than last years. This draft has a much better front end. He'd be a pick around 10 to 15 in this draft based on how much better this years crop looked playing along side them. Not all drafts are equal.

5 games is a very small sample size and no guarantee he'll be a superstar. Acres would be a safer bet because he's got a bigger sample size and shown that each year he's improved.

A direct swap wouldn't be too bad for either team, we lose a lot of development and slows our rebuild, they get a ready made player. You just have to look at guys like Weitering to see that progression isn't always linear.

If he wants to return to Melbourne he'd attract plenty of attention but doubt too many would part with a top 10 pick in this draft for him.
 

gringo2011

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A lot of mayo on that one without much actual evidence to back it up.

I think he was one of our best performed early in the year. Most of our kids were spudding it up and membrey, Gresh and Billings were all off their best. Acres looked like the only one that had progressed. I'm not sure he's a match winner yet though.
 

gringo2011

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Lloyd would be a good get - especially if Robbo has to retire. Very underrated player.
He's a big accumulator but he's kind of average. He's also being played as a rebound back. We would probably want to use him in the midfield. If we can make him a mid and he can keep his possession count up he'd be okay. He's a bit like Seb Ross, his numbers are always high but not a really damaging type, perhaps that's were he plays though.
 

gringo2011

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Would be a massive improvement on Savage. With Webster and Lloyd i think we would be looking pretty damaging (plus thow in Coff).

It's just that the club really really doesn't need is another rebound back. We have Rice, White, Geary, Robbo, Coffield, Savage, Austin etc. We need mids more than anything and if he can't transition there we should leave him.
 
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Don't need him as a medium forward, Battle is already better than him there.

Up to him to force his way into the midfield. Let's face it, he is not up against Selwood, Danger, and Ablett for a spot.
Speaks volumes he can't cement a spot in the mids. If he was like Steven or Ross his form would DEMAND he plays there.
But it doesn't. Hence why I think he is presently overrated.
Got potential but so did Tambling, so did Watts.
Someone mentioned Raph Clarke.

Eerily similar.

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C'mon Battle has only played three games and one of them was his debut last year, Acres hasn't been available while Battle has been playing at least wait until they are either in the same team or competing for the same spot.
 

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t_94

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Don't need him as a medium forward, Battle is already better than him there.

Up to him to force his way into the midfield. Let's face it, he is not up against Selwood, Danger, and Ablett for a spot.
Speaks volumes he can't cement a spot in the mids. If he was like Steven or Ross his form would DEMAND he plays there.
But it doesn't. Hence why I think he is presently overrated.
Got potential but so did Tambling, so did Watts.
Someone mentioned Raph Clarke.

Eerily similar.

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Not the same sort of player but I would have thought slow burn Seb Ross style would be a better comparison. It's become fashionable to bag Ross in this forum for some reason though.
 
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He's a big accumulator but he's kind of average. He's also being played as a rebound back. We would probably want to use him in the midfield. If we can make him a mid and he can keep his possession count up he'd be okay. He's a bit like Seb Ross, his numbers are always high but not a really damaging type, perhaps that's were he plays though.
He is a much better kick though
 
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Let's get one thing straight.

There is no way in the wide world there will be a swap with Freo involving Cerra and Acres.
Like Weller, they would demand pick 3 for him. He is contracted and RTB doesn't do favours.
Acres also contracted and we would take nothing less than a first rounder and a fairly high one, probs between 10-20.
Neither will occur so Acres is with us for at least a season and a half.

Up to him to force his way into the mids. If he can, good on him, if he can't, I hope he kills it off a wing or HFF.
Whatever, I hope he improves and helps the Saints.

Just cause I think he is overrated doesn't mean I don't support him.



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I think Acres is a victim of Richo's ignorance and poor exposure to playing him thru the midfield. He is not a ready made mid, but looks the type of player with constant exposure in the midfield would become a very good option.

Richo IMO pidgeons holes players more than RL ever did and as a result he has a sub par midfield. For a renouned development coach he has been sh*t house in this regard.
 
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FQFjt

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C'mon Battle has only played three games and one of them was his debut last year, Acres hasn't been available while Battle has been playing at least wait until they are either in the same team or competing for the same spot.
Battle's promising introduction into the team this year has only happened since Acres has been out injured. Acres would probably be very pleased by how Battle is going because it will probably mean that he won't need to play the medium tall role anymore.
 
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It's just that the club really really doesn't need is another rebound back. We have Rice, White, Geary, Robbo, Coffield, Savage, Austin etc. We need mids more than anything and if he can't transition there we should leave him.
True. But we just need good players that are an upgrade on what we have in the same position. Lloyd ticks those boxes. Wouldn't say no - but wouldn't pay massively to get him.

Personally, rice, white, geary and austin all to some extent are a bit more like lock down defenders. Rice/white/austin can use the ball well but aren't breaking the lines, running types like webster. Especially if Roberton doesn't come back, he could be a good pickup.

If we had him now, it would be an easy call to drop Savage and put him in. Offers far more imo.

FWIW, I really hope Coff spends the offseason with the mids and ends up there.
 

Browny2Carlisle

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This is the point exactly. Obviously not showing anything at match sim or training otherwise he would get a go there.

But no the coaches deliberately play him out of position so we lose and they are fired.

All makes perfect sense.

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I've definitely seen him showing something. Was dominant against Brisbane in the mid. 30 Disposals, 12 contested, 8 intercepts, 9 marks, 4 inside 50s, 4 tackles and a goal. Was just behind Steven for the coaches votes that game and made it to the afl team of the week as a mid. So why was he moved out of the mid the next game?
Then another brilliant start to the game in the mid against GWS. Look at the match feed of that game.
Qtr 2-
  • "Blake Acres leads the Saints for contested possessions (seven) and score involvements (six), while also launching four scores for the Saints today (no other Saint has launched more than one score)."
  • The excellent set shot at goal from Luke Dunstan was again launched by a Blake Acres intercept.
  • St Kilda generated 21 inside 50 entries in the second quarter (GWS recorded just the ten). The only time the Saints have recorded more entries in a quarter during the past five years was in their standout win against Richmond in round 16 last year.
It was Acres leading the charge until being moved forward in the second half.

The proof is there that he can play mid. Question marks around his consistency in there can be raised but then you also have to look at how he hasn't been in there consistently. Maybe he isn't showing anything? or maybe his versatility to play anywhere well while others are one position battlers leads him to have to be used elsewhere. We dont know. However, we have certainly seen some evidence of this with Newnes until he was successfully trialled forward.

All I know is, all his games have been pretty good this year. Even the one against Freo where he was struggling with OP. He was exceptional when in the midfield against Bris and GWS. Definitely has all the necessary attributes to be the goal scoring, line breaking mid. Would be a shame to see him become so at another club and not here.
 

Joffaboy

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I think Acres is a victim of Richo's ignorance and poor exposure to playing him thru the midfield. He is not a ready made mid, but looks the type of player with constant exposure in the midfield would become a very good option.

Richo IMO pidgeons players more than RL ever did and as a result he has a sub par midfield. For a renouned development coach he has been sh*t house in this regard.
So it is purely Richo's fault that the so called GOAT, after 4 season can't show enough at training or match sim to demand he gets picked in the mids.

Or are you telling me he never trains or plays there during intra training?

May develop but my god he is taking a while.

Still have hope he comes on, but up to him to grab a spot nobody else.

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gringo2011

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So it is purely Richo's fault that the so called GOAT, after 4 season can't show enough at training or match sim to demand he gets picked in the mids.

Or are you telling me he never trains or plays there during intra training?

May develop but my god he is taking a while.

Still have hope he comes on, but up to him to grab a spot nobody else.

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He suffers from Trout's disease where we have too many player who are the same types. We have to play the ones that have more strings to their bow out of the ideal position. Acres can play a variety of roles where some one like Dunstan can't so he gets sent out to fend for himself.
 

Joffaboy

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I've definitely seen him showing something. Was dominant against Brisbane in the mid. 30 Disposals, 12 contested, 8 intercepts, 9 marks, 4 inside 50s, 4 tackles and a goal. Was just behind Steven for the coaches votes that game and made it to the afl team of the week as a mid. So why was he moved out of the mid the next game?
Then another brilliant start to the game in the mid against GWS. Look at the match feed of that game.
Qtr 2-
  • "Blake Acres leads the Saints for contested possessions (seven) and score involvements (six), while also launching four scores for the Saints today (no other Saint has launched more than one score)."
  • The excellent set shot at goal from Luke Dunstan was again launched by a Blake Acres intercept.
  • St Kilda generated 21 inside 50 entries in the second quarter (GWS recorded just the ten). The only time the Saints have recorded more entries in a quarter during the past five years was in their standout win against Richmond in round 16 last year.
It was Acres leading the charge until being moved forward in the second half.

The proof is there that he can play mid. Question marks around his consistency in there can be raised but then you also have to look at how he hasn't been in there consistently. Maybe he isn't showing anything? or maybe his versatility to play anywhere well while others are one position battlers leads him to have to be used elsewhere. We dont know. However, we have certainly seen some evidence of this with Newnes until he was successfully trialled forward.

All I know is, all his games have been pretty good this year. Even the one against Freo where he was struggling with OP. He was exceptional when in the midfield against Bris and GWS. Definitely has all the necessary attributes to be the goal scoring, line breaking mid. Would be a shame to see him become so at another club and not here.
Just shows he has a lot of potential but only occasionally.

A few cherry picked stats means diddly squat unless he can put it together regularly.

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Joffaboy

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A few years in and I still can’t grasp if you have no idea, or just troll. Both?
You’re an enigma, Joff!
I have no clue.

The saddest part of these forums are the posters who think they do have A clue.
One thing about sport, is that it makes people get things wrong so often.

I am wrong more than I am right about football. The vast majority on here are the same.
There are some who think they have a clue.
They are the ones with most entertainment value.

I hope like hell I am wrong about Acres, and others who I think aren't that good.

Can others say the same?

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