List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 1

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triggering bro

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The highlighted is what we have to identify. We all come at this from different angles and are obviously working with limited information so it isn't easy but we can all pretty much agree that, with the picks we have had, we haven't had any young guys come in and take the competition by the scruff of the neck like other teams have had in the same period of time. We can go back and forth on whether we picked the wrong kids or whether a gamplan like ours stifles development but I am more interested in looking at the last 2 premiers and the Hawks to see how the industry leaders are doing things.

With the Bulldogs pretty much everyone at their club put the win down to Bevo coming in. He was smart enough to find a balance between keeping a sound defensive structure with pressure a given and giving players the freedom to express themselves.

Richmond were pretty much the same, Hardwick found the balance so that players were trained and gained the composure to decide when to attack and defend in game and to have fun when doing it.

We need to examine what it is holding our young blokes back. Of course it is likely a combination of things including Trout picking the wrong kids but, even if that is the case, we need to make sure that the gameplan we have gives our young guys the tools to blossom like you see at the top clubs in the competition.
A couple of points that myself & I’m sure others have raised over Richo’s tenure as coach:

- Lack of rising star nominations. Did we have any last year? I think our last was Gresham. Prior was Acres, Billings & Dunstan. That’s probably all we’ve had in Richo’s time? Now compare that to other clubs that have spent big in the draft.

- Low amount of players from the list utilised throughout the season. Our injury front has been good however the fact that we haven’t been competing usually means you rotate more players through to expedite development. That hasn’t been the case.

- As you already mentioned, despite bringing in highly rated juniors into the system none except maybe Dunstan have hit the ground running. Gresham looked okay as well but we haven’t had someone have an immediate, consistent & high level impact like a Merrett, Bont, Cripps, Weitering, etc.

- Our youth haven’t been given the opportunity/taken the opportunity to own a position & dominate that position. We’ve seen our youth come in & flip flop around & not have a permanent role. It took Richo three years to finally identify that Billings is & will be a forward primarily. Richo is still scratching his head with regard to Acres. Failure to identify roles is a concern, I refuse to believe he is ‘developing’ them by moving them around.

- Sandingham have deteriorated in the last few years which suggests we lack depth & depth is not developing.

Now that’s just development issues, structural issues & failure to identify, rectify & execute game plans is a separate concern. Richo is a well rounded....poor head coach imo.
 

DGontheQT

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I'm just sick of the Geary bashing. It's been happening for years from people who don't have a clue what Geary's role is (not you).

Obviously everyone would pick Hodge, so would I. Arguably the greatest captain of all-time, multiple premiership player, Norm Smith medalist compared to a guy that's come off of the Rookie List and in his 2nd year as captain, taking over the job from someone who is regarded as our greatest ever player.

Gee we don't even give them a chance anymore.
Geary is a fine captain and player. His low profile leads people to think he isn't a good skipper. They are wrong. I think Geary has mental toughness , whilst some others on our list are devoid of it. That's the problem.
 

mad-saint-guy

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One positive that will come from this year is that we can finally cut off the majority of the deadwood from the list. Obviously I'd love to see a miraculous turnaround in our on-field performance and have other positives come from the season but right now things are looking grim.

At the end of the season I would clear out

Wright
Minchington
Lonie
Gilbert
Freeman
Brown

Trade one of
Hickey or Longer
Armitage or Stevens

I would also see if there was any interest in Newnes or Webster from other clubs which could help improve our draft position (we should try and get back into the second round).

Go hard at Sloane, Dahlhaus and Gaff. See if we could shake Preuss or Darcy free with a massive contract. Float a ridiculous sum of money in front of Lynch and if he bites see if we can get a late first rounder for Paddy. No more trading in depth players for draft picks - go aggressively for players who make a genuine difference.
 
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One positive that will come from this year is that we can finally cut off the majority of the deadwood from the list. Obviously I'd love to see a miraculous turnaround in our on-field performance and have other positives come from the season but right now things are looking grim.

At the end of the season I would clear out

Wright
Minchington
Lonie
Gilbert
Freeman
Brown

Trade one of
Hickey or Longer
Armitage or Stevens

I would also see if there was any interest in Newnes or Webster from other clubs which could help improve our draft position (we should try and get back into the second round).

Go hard at Sloane, Dahlhaus and Gaff. See if we could shake Preuss or Darcy free with a massive contract. Float a ridiculous sum of money in front of Lynch and if he bites see if we can get a late first rounder for Paddy. No more trading in depth players for draft picks - go aggressively for players who make a genuine difference.
With the number of expected delistings this year, I was surprised they traded our 2nd round pick away in what is projected as a strong draft year?
 

austinnn

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Forgive me for not reading earlier posts in this thread, but I've got to be quick here.

I decided to watch the 4th quarter of the good Friday game just to see what went wrong. (Answer: lots)

Watching it I realised that if we are absolutely fair dinkum, we'll have to trade Josh Bruce.

He has had one great year as a forward, but hasn't backed it up. He cannot ruck and it seems that we need one of our KPFs to ruck. We bought him as a backman and he's no good at that.

He is a good athlete and kids favourite but he's not a smart footballer. He's still an inconsistent goalkicker too.

He'd be a Coleman medal contender in a different team but if we're insistent on needing him to ruck, better to develop Marshall and sell Juicy Brucey while he is still worth anything.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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Forgive me for not reading earlier posts in this thread, but I've got to be quick here.

I decided to watch the 4th quarter of the good Friday game just to see what went wrong. (Answer: lots)

Watching it I realised that if we are absolutely fair dinkum, we'll have to trade Josh Bruce.

He has had one great year as a forward, but hasn't backed it up. He cannot ruck and it seems that we need one of our KPFs to ruck. We bought him as a backman and he's no good at that.

He is a good athlete and kids favourite but he's not a smart footballer. He's still an inconsistent goalkicker too.

He'd be a Coleman medal contender in a different team but if we're insistent on needing him to ruck, better to develop Marshall and sell Juicy Brucey while he is still worth anything.
unless we are brininging in a Lynch or McGovern (to push forward) i dont see trading Bruce making us any stronger... he has become some what of our plug we plonk him forward knowing he has to go into the ruck for stints and think that throws off any continuity in his game , on Friday when Longer went down he had to be the number one ruck by himself , i think its destroying him by pushing him in the ruck we need to find a better option and leave him where his best footy is played - again it comes down to our weakness in rucks and thats the frustrating thing for all the time effort list spots and draft picks we have spent on rucks we dont have one that can shoulder more than 50% of the load
 

st_trav_ofWA

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just a question ... who is our Ruck coach ?
Adam Skrobalak was listed as Ruck coach but with him being Frankston coach his role would have to be only part time and again how many AFL games did Adam Skrobalak ruck in ??
other teams have got the likes of Dean Cox , Will Minson, Steven King i know Essendon were looking at Mark Jamar as a specialist ruck coach yet we got a no name who is working part time with his main focuse his head coaching job at a club not affiliated with us ... is it really any wonder that the boys in the Ruck are going backwards ? its any wonder we cant develop anyone and guys like Pierce have not come on .. who is teaching them their craft ?
 

bird_man

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just a question ... who is our Ruck coach ?
Adam Skrobalak was listed as Ruck coach but with him being Frankston coach his role would have to be only part time and again how many AFL games did Adam Skrobalak ruck in ??
other teams have got the likes of Dean Cox , Will Minson, Steven King i know Essendon were looking at Mark Jamar as a specialist ruck coach yet we got a no name who is working part time with his main focuse his head coaching job at a club not affiliated with us ... is it really any wonder that the boys in the Ruck are going backwards ? its any wonder we cant develop anyone and guys like Pierce have not come on .. who is teaching them their craft ?
He is still our ruck coach but coaches Frankston as well.

Agree everyone ruckman has either not improved or gone backwards of late.
 

gringo2011

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Forgive me for not reading earlier posts in this thread, but I've got to be quick here.

I decided to watch the 4th quarter of the good Friday game just to see what went wrong. (Answer: lots)

Watching it I realised that if we are absolutely fair dinkum, we'll have to trade Josh Bruce.

He has had one great year as a forward, but hasn't backed it up. He cannot ruck and it seems that we need one of our KPFs to ruck. We bought him as a backman and he's no good at that.

He is a good athlete and kids favourite but he's not a smart footballer. He's still an inconsistent goalkicker too.

He'd be a Coleman medal contender in a different team but if we're insistent on needing him to ruck, better to develop Marshall and sell Juicy Brucey while he is still worth anything.
I don’t want to keep dumping on Paddy but Bruce is much smarter and more current in style as a forward. If we got Lynch it makes more sense. Bruce works hard and has good days, his leading patterns are excellent and he’s a bit of a barometer for us. If he’s getting goals it’s because our midfield is doing well. Last week was no good for forwards or backs as our mids killed us. I can’t think of anyone that was a winner in the midfield. We tried keeping our formation in the forward line and didn’t play them as spares in defence like we usually do. We tried some things that hindered us like Webster further up the ground while not really covering for him. It was odd that not one player was willing to help a team mate. I remember Armo shepherding someone and we actually set up a goal. But that was the only time I can think that anyone did the team thing. Players ahead of the ball just stood still. It was like they wanted to lose.
 

bird_man

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Essendon very keen on Sloane. Geez that would hurt if he did leave adelaide and went to the Bombers. Let’s be honest though, if it’s a choice between the two you would think he’d choose Essendon every day of the week.

There list is more spread with age and they seem a lot closer to contending than us.

Sloane will be 29 and without a flag. Our offer would have to be ridiculously higher if he were to come.
 

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Indie Rock

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Essendon very keen on Sloane. Geez that would hurt if he did leave adelaide and went to the Bombers. Let’s be honest though, if it’s a choice between the two you would think he’d choose Essendon every day of the week.

There list is more spread with age and they seem a lot closer to contending than us.

Sloane will be 29 and without a flag. Our offer would have to be ridiculously higher if he were to come.
Surely the club just needs to sell him the Road to 2020 vision? it worked for all of us.

If we delete the North Review thread and all keep really quiet it might just work.

 
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gringo2011

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Surely the club just needs to sell him the Road to 2020 vision? it worked for all of us.

If we delete the North Review thread and all keep really quiet it might just work.

Kidnap his dog instead. If he has agreed to come to us I’m pretty sure he will change his mind pretty quickly unless some massive turn around happens.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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He is still our ruck coach but coaches Frankston as well.

Agree everyone ruckman has either not improved or gone backwards of late.
but see thats the half arsed apointment that is killing us ... firstly how a guy who has never rucked at the highest level can teach a guy who has 60 games of rucking anything i dont understand , secondly why we are paying for a part time coach whos obvious priority is going to be his full time head coach job .. surely there is another option better than that heck Cain Ackland has more AFL ruck experiance than our ruck coach... even our midfield coach Simon McPhee although a smart bloke and good developer of the kids has zero AFL playing experiance (the highest level being WAFL reserves).. i like Simon McPhee as a development coach but as the voice controlling our midfield im not so confident...
 

st_trav_ofWA

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What is Pruess' contract status?
Hunt him down and throw some coin at North Melbourne.
Give them Hickey, or Longer, and a lower pick or player (to back up their ruck stocks).
Get it done without touching our first or future high picks.
lets think about this logically ... why would North entertain downgrading a player? Pruess would be well ahead of both Longer and Hickey in their eyes and its not like North have cap issues so in their eyes they are better off keeping him then doing St Kilda a favour...
 

st_trav_ofWA

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Essendon very keen on Sloane. Geez that would hurt if he did leave adelaide and went to the Bombers. Let’s be honest though, if it’s a choice between the two you would think he’d choose Essendon every day of the week.

There list is more spread with age and they seem a lot closer to contending than us.

Sloane will be 29 and without a flag. Our offer would have to be ridiculously higher if he were to come.
arghhhhh i dont think i could handle Sloane choosing to leave the crows only to end up at Essendon... seriously if this happens we may as well give up on free agency for our club and just sit back as the comp becomes a two tier system where the rich clubs can buy their way out of having to ever fully bottom out ... heck all we need now is Hawthorn to say they are interested in him or Geelong
 

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lets think about this logically ... why would North entertain downgrading a player? Pruess would be well ahead of both Longer and Hickey in their eyes and its not like North have cap issues so in their eyes they are better off keeping him then doing St Kilda a favour...
Bit optimistic but could be that Preuss forces their hand and requests to leave for more game time if he spends another year playing second fiddle to Goldy.
 

Premium

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The Saints have to grab whoever is available - Lynch , Sloane , Gaff , McGovern , Wines , Laird , Preuss however they would have to be organizing it now , anyone one would do to make our squad stronger and trade out whoever is excess.
Also upgrade our draft picks so we have a couple picks in the top 10 - this is a must
 

st_trav_ofWA

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Bit optimistic but could be that Preuss forces their hand and requests to leave for more game time if he spends another year playing second fiddle to Goldy.
if thats the case the Swans will come knocking for him and North will sell him off to the highest bidder ... the only way we upgrade on what we have got is by giving away something of equal or higher value ... no team is going to accept a downgrade they will only give something away if they dont have any use or dont see any value in them EG Swans giving us Membrey for nix
 

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but see thats the half arsed apointment that is killing us ... firstly how a guy who has never rucked at the highest level can teach a guy who has 60 games of rucking anything i dont understand , secondly why we are paying for a part time coach whos obvious priority is going to be his full time head coach job .. surely there is another option better than that heck Cain Ackland has more AFL ruck experiance than our ruck coach... even our midfield coach Simon McPhee although a smart bloke and good developer of the kids has zero AFL playing experiance (the highest level being WAFL reserves).. i like Simon McPhee as a development coach but as the voice controlling our midfield im not so confident...
I won’t hold the fact he hasn’t played at the highest level against him. There are a lot of coaches in the system who haven’t these days, even a head coach. Being able to play at the highest level doesn’t necessarily mean you are a smart footballer.

But in this case, he hasn’t taken any of our ruckman forward so I hope we are looking at better options.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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Last year: Roo should retire to give Paddy games. Paddy will go to Geelong if we don't play him.

This year: Trade Paddy!
footy fans are funny like that ... 5 weeks ago we were thinking we were set for rucks and inside mids and all we needed was some outside class .. round one we were talking up the prospect of Paddy taking 10 grabs and booting 5 ... this week we are talking sacking the coach, trading out Steven, public flogging of Trout, playing without a ruck altogether and that we should have never traded BJ and Dal, heck even merger got a run ..
 

bird_man

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The Saints have to grab whoever is available - Lynch , Sloane , Gaff , McGovern , Wines , Laird , Preuss however they would have to be organizing it now , anyone one would do to make our squad stronger and trade out whoever is excess.
Also upgrade our draft picks so we have a couple picks in the top 10 - this is a must
I like the idea Premo, but how do we trade up into a top 10 pick when we don’t have another pick until the third round?

The only way would to trade one of our guns such as Steven.

I’d be very keen to trade next years first for another first this year but that’s going to be tough considering how they rate this draft.
 
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