Strategy 2018 Tactics and game plan thread

greatwhiteshark

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What do you think needs to tactically change? what can we do.
Tactically we are one dimensional, our decision making is poor and we are way to slow to get the ball moving.
Generally your first thought is the best thought and to often we see our players look to move it on but hesitate, whether this is a confidence thing where they are scared to stuff up I don't know but it makes it worse by holding on to the pill.
I get very frustrated with our midfield being beaten so often at centre bounces and yet we never see a lock down in there, we continue to try to just play to our own plan when what is really needed is to be able to just simply stop the opponent getting it. The old adage of two centre clearances in a row requires man on man in the centre square with the goal to just stop your opponent getting it still applies. But we never do it and we allow sides to gain to big an advantage from centre clearances. This puts huge pressure on your back half and can make you look very unaccountable.
Tactically I would play lock down defence, no more zone defence. While it looks pretty with Mcgovern and Barrass taking all these intercept marks, playing off their opponent is not the way you win finals. You simply can't give a player an inch.
We also stuff around with the ball and for us less should be better, the more we have it the more likely our skill level will hurt us so the handball happy game plan has to go. And as I said earlier we must learn to spread the opposition defence.
 

greatwhiteshark

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I don't buy into the premise that we don't have the cattle.

Leicester won the premier league with the lowest budget and one of the worst squads on paper with a superior tactical execution than everyone else.
As did Richmond and the Bulldogs the last two years, but I can't see our group playing that manic pressure game can you? They don't seem to have the character to do it.
 

Chris_6678

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I think we still need that zoning intercept player but we do not need two defenders doing that because there are times we get caught out to easy.

Gov is elite at what he does so for me he 100% stays as a defender and just keep doing what he does. Barrass for me should spend the summer working on his one on one against tall forwards. He has the body but just needs to work on his 1 on 1's. He has improved a fair bit this year so i expect big things from him next year.

We also do not need 3 tall defenders down back so i want us to stick with Gov ( intercepting) and Barrass ( lock down). We then need a lock down player on a small forwards which always seems to kills us when the ball goes to ground. We can use one of: Nelson, Cole & Watson.

From there we have 3 Attacking defenders in Hurn, Yeo, Shep and Duggan. ( Duggan and Yeo to also spend minutes in the midfield)

We have all the right pieces for our back line.

Cole Barrass Shep
Hurn Gov Yeo

Duggan Mid/Def

Depth: Schofield & Emac
 

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swingdog

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As did Richmond and the Bulldogs the last two years, but I can't see our group playing that manic pressure game can you? They don't seem to have the character to do it.
The annoying thing is they can do it on occasion but only for individual games, not string it together into a pattern over a few weeks. You can notice it in those games because the commentators seem surprised by the extra intensity shown by the Eagles.
 

greatwhiteshark

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The annoying thing is they can do it on occasion but only for individual games, not string it together into a pattern over a few weeks. You can notice it in those games because the commentators seem surprised by the extra intensity shown by the Eagles.
Which brings into question their character yes? They can do it and probably get the result they wanted by doing it yet they won't embrace it to make it a standard part of the way they play, just all to hard to do it weekly.
 

Chris_6678

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They have shown the potential but maybe they just cant buy into it? They might feel the current gameplan just wont cut it as they got smashed in the GF.

I think having these new facilities will make a massive difference because they should be able to train there from the get go and not wait till mid feb/march. From day dot they can implement the game plans over the two ovals.
 

The wily weagle

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NN is one of those ruckmen that cannot spend huge minutes on the ground

Is this actually true though?

We have heard for years that Nic Nat will never be able to play out a full game like Todd Goldstein, but i have always found that odd. I mean sure, he is more of an explosive, burst player, but that said, surely he could get fit enough to play 80-90% of a game?

People used to say that Shane Mumford would never be able to run out a game, but when he got truly serious about his fitness he was pretty much playing a full game of the field. If Mumford could do it, surely Nic Nat could emulate it?

Off the top of my head, he normally only plays about 66% of game time on the field, thats only 2/3rds of the game?

Can/should Nic Nat get fitter, or are we actually going to have to accept that even at peak fitness he cannot run out a full game?
 

ChampRevesby

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Which brings into question their character yes? They can do it and probably get the result they wanted by doing it yet they won't embrace it to make it a standard part of the way they play, just all to hard to do it weekly.
I've spent a number of years training soldiers and the ones that are humble, dedicated and ruthless are the ones that at no moment in-time think of themselves. Every thought, every action and every step is done with their mates best interest in mind. You get to this point by breaking the bloke down to their basic character, then when everyone is at the same level you put them though hardship and lots of it, constantly. The idea is they have to work together to overcome the challenges (if they don't their life will only get worse) and by doing so they share the hardship fostering an in-group preference that is hard to describe and can really only be done by those that were apart of it (any service member knows exactlly what I am talking about or just ask a (ex)member). Do this over and over again and the feelings of in-group preference, duty, dedication and mateship only get stronger and stronger. Keep doing this to a point where you don't even have to ask blokes to storm a hill or run at machine guns. While I'm not comparing solidering to playing football (two are very different and its best not to compare), but this process will produce the same outcome on the football field. We have a group of individuals at the club i.e. (civilians waiting on that bus outside the gates of Kapooka) thats all we have. Not even sure what I was going to say...
 

JackOutback

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I think it's pretty simple...

Vardy plays CHF to get Darling 3rd tall defender mismatches.
We add more forward line pressure with our selection of small/mids - eg. Rioli, Venables
Naitanui returns, likely doubling our hit outs to advantage per game as a minimum over 2017.
Hurn, Shepperd, Duggan, Nelson given licence to RUN the ball out of defence.

I just think we will be a much more dynamic side in 2018. Our personnel issues really made us static and totally dependant on our talls dominating.

EDIT - Totally based on the presumption that our drafting and trading is aimed at improving the midfield. I am dead keen on Ah Chee and at least one other mature bodied player with some toe and ability to win the footy.
Vardy is less a CHF than Darling.
 
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RookiePick

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Vardy is less a CHF than Darling.
Based on what? Vardy has a good tank, a good grab and demands a tall defender. He is also a good set shot on goal. He certainly isn't going to be playing #1 ruck with Naita back on deck. I suppose you think Vardy is going to suit up for EP all year?

Watch his highlights on the West Coast site, Vardy is dangerous up forward and freeing Darling up to run toward goal is win/win for us.
 

swingdog

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I've spent a number of years training soldiers and the ones that are humble, dedicated and ruthless are the ones that at no moment in-time think of themselves. Every thought, every action and every step is done with their mates best interest in mind. You get to this point by breaking the bloke down to their basic character, then when everyone is at the same level you put them though hardship and lots of it, constantly. The idea is they have to work together to overcome the challenges (if they don't their life will only get worse) and by doing so they share the hardship fostering an in-group preference that is hard to describe and can really only be done by those that were apart of it (any service member knows exactlly what I am talking about or just ask a (ex)member). Do this over and over again and the feelings of in-group preference, duty, dedication and mateship only get stronger and stronger. Keep doing this to a point where you don't even have to ask blokes to storm a hill or run at machine guns. While I'm not comparing solidering to playing football (two are very different and its best not to compare), but this process will produce the same outcome on the football field. We have a group of individuals at the club i.e. (civilians waiting on that bus outside the gates of Kapooka) thats all we have. Not even sure what I was going to say...
I think you were going to suggest they outsource the summer training program to Swanbourne.
 

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greatwhiteshark

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Based on what? Vardy has a good tank, a good grab and demands a tall defender. He is also a good set shot on goal. He certainly isn't going to be playing #1 ruck with Naita back on deck. I suppose you think Vardy is going to suit up for EP all year?

Watch his highlights on the West Coast site, Vardy is dangerous up forward and freeing Darling up to run toward goal is win/win for us.
Agree completely, Vardy should play CHF Permanently. Chop out the ruck when needed, Darling out to a flank and play high up the ground.
 

Doughboy

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I've spent a number of years training soldiers and the ones that are humble, dedicated and ruthless are the ones that at no moment in-time think of themselves. Every thought, every action and every step is done with their mates best interest in mind. You get to this point by breaking the bloke down to their basic character, then when everyone is at the same level you put them though hardship and lots of it, constantly. The idea is they have to work together to overcome the challenges (if they don't their life will only get worse) and by doing so they share the hardship fostering an in-group preference that is hard to describe and can really only be done by those that were apart of it (any service member knows exactlly what I am talking about or just ask a (ex)member). Do this over and over again and the feelings of in-group preference, duty, dedication and mateship only get stronger and stronger. Keep doing this to a point where you don't even have to ask blokes to storm a hill or run at machine guns. While I'm not comparing solidering to playing football (two are very different and its best not to compare), but this process will produce the same outcome on the football field. We have a group of individuals at the club i.e. (civilians waiting on that bus outside the gates of Kapooka) thats all we have. Not even sure what I was going to say...
Well said ChampRevesby
 

Eaglespur

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Based on what? Vardy has a good tank, a good grab and demands a tall defender. He is also a good set shot on goal. He certainly isn't going to be playing #1 ruck with Naita back on deck. I suppose you think Vardy is going to suit up for EP all year?

Watch his highlights on the West Coast site, Vardy is dangerous up forward and freeing Darling up to run toward goal is win/win for us.
Can Lycett play CHF
 

avishka5

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Is this actually true though?

We have heard for years that Nic Nat will never be able to play out a full game like Todd Goldstein, but i have always found that odd. I mean sure, he is more of an explosive, burst player, but that said, surely he could get fit enough to play 80-90% of a game?

People used to say that Shane Mumford would never be able to run out a game, but when he got truly serious about his fitness he was pretty much playing a full game of the field. If Mumford could do it, surely Nic Nat could emulate it?

Off the top of my head, he normally only plays about 66% of game time on the field, thats only 2/3rds of the game?

Can/should Nic Nat get fitter, or are we actually going to have to accept that even at peak fitness he cannot run out a full game?
Difference between Mummy and NN is that Mummy had a poor tank and carried excess weight. He wouldn't have last in the system if he didn't improve that. NN probably has a bit more improvement in the tank but not only is he a burst player but he plays with high intensity (mutiple repeat efforts and tackles etc). I can't see NN ever being able to do a goldy/martin/jacobs but can see him spending a bit more time in the ruck.
 

Always Ballin

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Rioli and Ryan up front. Make forward pressure an emphasis this preseason. Not just corralling but tackling, ball pressure.

The core of our gameplan is fine. As it was in 2015 when we took the league by storm. Needs a few tweaks.

In 2015 our backline was ravaged. We opted for a fast, mobile, slightly undersized back 6. The spacial web defense was quicker and recovered better. We fared far better defensively against offensive rebounds. Too often this season we got burnt on the rebound due to a lack of mobility.

BACK LINE SOLUTION:
- Only play 2 Talls (McGovern + Barrass)
- Drop a man back if the lack of size is hurting us in a game

FORWARD LINE SOLUTION:
- Rioli + Ryan/Karpany for speed and FWD pressure
- Experiment with a Richmond style 1 tall 5 small setup
- Work on finding a tall FWD marking option that pushes up to the wings (Think Lynch in 2011)


Cripps has value as an opportunist small FWD goal sneak that applies intense tackling pressure... Given he doesn't have to pick up the slack for LeCras

Cripps tackling has dropped from 5 to 3 a game since 2015. Our overall FWD has gotten slower and he has had to shoulder the load. Put Rioli and Ryan/Karpany in there with him and Cripps will be better off for it, getting back to his 2015 form.

Forward pressure is so important for us because we got killed off half back counter attacks. We didn't apply enough pressure on the defense, and they could thread the needle with disposals. We pressure the defense, we give our midfield and defense time to recover and get numbers back.

No more Lecras corralling space. We need Daniel Rioli type tackle hounds. Let the defenders 40-50m away protect space. The closer to the ball, the more man to man.

Would really like to see a Richmond style 1 tall 5 small FWD setup at times next year. This is the major tactical success I thought Richmond implemented. They gained an advantage on the ground, at the feet, and didn't give up any marking inside 50. They were fast enough that they found space and took marks uncontested. Ironically Jack fared better with no other tall leading options in his way.

I haven't really thought much about the midfield. In a general sense, need to get faster, but this is a given with Priddis/Mitchell out. Ah Chee is our guy. Venables to take the next step. I think our midfield can do fine.


BOTTOM LINE: I think if we get slightly faster at each line, we can look every bit as good as 2015. We have the core pieces. We don't necessarily need the most talented roster. We just need some slight tweaks.
 

JackOutback

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Based on what? Vardy has a good tank, a good grab and demands a tall defender. He is also a good set shot on goal. He certainly isn't going to be playing #1 ruck with Naita back on deck. I suppose you think Vardy is going to suit up for EP all year?

Watch his highlights on the West Coast site, Vardy is dangerous up forward and freeing Darling up to run toward goal is win/win for us.
Don't think he has the tools to be a leading CHF; yeah, he has a good grab, but usually taken out of packs. Likewise, he's a good set shot on goal from about 30-40m out, not 50m out. He's a good resting forward and alternate ruck, a position that he and Lycett will be competing for (unless we trade Lycett).
 

Godfather32

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I don't buy into the premise that we don't have the cattle.

Leicester won the premier league with the lowest budget and one of the worst squads on paper with a superior tactical execution than everyone else.
We've got quality players, it's just that there's not enough of them in the right position (mainly midfield) and the rest of the players around them don't provide the necessary amount of pressure to match the top teams for a whole game.
 

Eaglespur

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We've got quality players, it's just that there's not enough of them in the right position (mainly midfield) and the rest of the players around them don't provide the necessary amount of pressure to match the top teams for a whole game.
You'd hardly say the bulldogs have a star studded midfield.
 

RookiePick

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You'd hardly say the bulldogs have a star studded midfield.
Dogs get good value out of the Wallis, Stringer, Dalhaus types...or at least they did last year. Dangerous forward and can win the footy when they run through the middle. Obviously Bontempelli is class but they don't fall off a ball winning cliff when the primary mids need a spell. We have really limited rotations from our HB and HF players and any of them that go through would struggle to win the footy in a contest with my granny.

I'm sure Stringer has turned at least 2 games against us with a devastating 5 minutes in the guts.
 

Eaglespur

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Dogs get good value out of the Wallis, Stringer, Dalhaus types...or at least they did last year. Dangerous forward and can win the footy when they run through the middle. Obviously Bontempelli is class but they don't fall off a ball winning cliff when the primary mids need a spell. We have really limited rotations from our HB and HF players and any of them that go through would struggle to win the footy in a contest with my granny.

I'm sure Stringer has turned at least 2 games against us with a devastating 5 minutes in the guts.
Sure, thats great for the dogs.

My point is why can't we try extract a little more from the players that we have got. Cripps could get back to his 2015 manic pressure, Shep has dropped off a bit and has another level, Cole could announce himself ect
 

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