2018 Trade and FA thread (opposition supporters post in Trade Hypotheticals thread)

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briztoon

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Briztoon's continual carry on about Beams being "beat up" is just so over the top. I would actually argue the opposite and say he's got a good 5-6 years left. Beams has shown he can kick a lot of goals and would be a really tough match up at the end of his career as a forward.

For a team in a premiership window, pick 9 as is a bargain for a player of Beams ability. For a team like Carlton, if they had Pick 9 it would be a terrible move.

Personally I hope Beams stays, as we're a significantly better team with him in it and at the trade table all the Vic sides will offer us nothing as usual
I might be the one saying it the most, but I'm not the only one who has said it.

Are there any posters here, who if they said it, you'd place more weight in their opinion.

And I'll stress, it's just an opinion. Not fact. So you can disagree with it all you want and have your opinion.
 

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PattyKwasagun

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I might be the one saying it the most, but I'm not the only one who has said it.

Are there any posters here, who if they said it, you'd place more weight in their opinion.

And I'll stress, it's just an opinion. Not fact. So you can disagree with it all you want and have your opinion.
Personally I'm just interested in what evidence you're basing that opinion on. Beams has played a full season of high-quality football (one of his best, if not his best ever), will likely feature top 10 and maybe even top 5 in the Brownlow, and has shown that he can be dangerous as a forward in future years too.

I realise when you see a player taped up you do feel like their bodies are wearing out, but there's no real evidence to support that theory with Beams. Is that all you're basing it on?
 

jackess

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Personally I'm just interested in what evidence you're basing that opinion on. Beams has played a full season of high-quality football (one of his best, if not his best ever), will likely feature top 10 and maybe even top 5 in the Brownlow, and has shown that he can be dangerous as a forward in future years too.

I realise when you see a player taped up you do feel like their bodies are wearing out, but there's no real evidence to support that theory with Beams. Is that all you're basing it on?
In my opinion he’s
1 - slow over any distance (I think we can all agree on this)
2- has little core strength (gets pushed over way too easy)
3 - not very fit (only runs one way which often puts him in a good position to get the footy when we win it back)

I’m not sure I see him playing forward. He’s a good one on one mark and a good set shot but he can hardly jump or beat someone on the lead.
 

a mayes ing

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Personally I'm just interested in what evidence you're basing that opinion on. Beams has played a full season of high-quality football (one of his best, if not his best ever), will likely feature top 10 and maybe even top 5 in the Brownlow, and has shown that he can be dangerous as a forward in future years too.

I realise when you see a player taped up you do feel like their bodies are wearing out, but there's no real evidence to support that theory with Beams. Is that all you're basing it on?
Wat kind of evidence do you want? Unless a player comes out and says "My body just cant do it anymore" then l am not sure what type you want. Has had a fair few injuries at our club including a PCL (At Collingwood), shoulder reconstruction and something else iirc (knee?), and just generally looks really sore during games and looks beat up when he goes to ground. Heart doesn't look in it anymore either from my perspective as he doesn't look happy at the games (but this could also be the grieving factor)
 

PattyKwasagun

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Wat kind of evidence do you want? Unless a player comes out and says "My body just cant do it anymore" then l am not sure what type you want. Has had a fair few injuries at our club including a PCL (At Collingwood), shoulder reconstruction and something else iirc (knee?), and just generally looks really sore during games and looks beat up when he goes to ground. Heart doesn't look in it anymore either from my perspective as he doesn't look happy at the games (but this could also be the grieving factor)
I think if he had missed a number of games this season through injury you could say his body was starting to break down a bit, but he hasn't had problems with that at all of late - his injury concerns were earlier in his career. As jackess pointed out, he does look slow but not particularly slower than he has at any other stage of his career in my view.

And while I agree that his defensive work rate isn't particularly high, I think you could say the same thing about most of the elite midfielders of the competition. He averaged more tackles per game this season than Dustin Martin, for example. Not that tackles are the be all and end all, just making the point that he's far from the first gun midfielder to be accused of only running one way.

You said he 'just generally looks really sore during games', which is what I think most people are basing their fears about his longevity on. I don't think that's a great metric.

Generally, I would look for these things to suggest a player wearing down:
-Numerous stints on the sideline with niggling injuries
-A noticeably declining impact on games
-A significant drop in speed

I don't really see that Beams has shown any of those signs.

I think Luke Hodge's body was (and is) just as beaten up as Beams's if not more at the same age. Hodge will be 35 next year and is still playing to a pretty good level most weeks. Beams is six years younger than him.
 

Lazza16

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Honestly feel that is an over pay for Beams. If the teams were reversed, and Brisbane was trading pick 9 for a 29 year old and beat up Dayne Beams, I'd be pretty pissed.

I'm all for getting the best value for Beams in a trade if it eventuates, but genuinely try to be realistic when considering such trades. I believe Beams would be worth a late first or early, early second. While a players past and current achievements does lend weight to his value, what really counts is a players projected future out put, and I believe Beams, at best (and I really want to stress that "at best") has two years left in his body performing a high level.

Others have mentioned it, when the decline comes for Beams, it's going to be fast. I don't see Beams as being able to play on like Hodge or Burgoyne.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 

Lazza16

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We are undoubtedly a better side with him but that is not the only consideration here. This year he has carried a lot into games, both mentally and physically, which has made him look slow, sore and tired. He may well rejuvenate next year with the grief having subsided somewhat, whether that be with us or elsewhere. But realistically you would say he has two, possibly three, years left in him. He may even want to quit football after a couple of years. The balance for our club is whether we take what he offers on the field for a year or possibly two or get whatever value he brings on the trade table. I definitely think the club will look at offers if the value is high enough when compared to what he brings us as a player. My ideal scenario for what it's worth would have been to have him stay one more year by which time I reckon our young mids will be ready to go it alone and then get him a trade and shed ourselves of the burden of the final year of his contract which is money we may need for re-signings.
I think Berry said "here I am" on the weekend. Our big knob says hands off so I think we should back him. They know best.
 

briztoon

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Personally I'm just interested in what evidence you're basing that opinion on. Beams has played a full season of high-quality football (one of his best, if not his best ever), will likely feature top 10 and maybe even top 5 in the Brownlow, and has shown that he can be dangerous as a forward in future years too.

I realise when you see a player taped up you do feel like their bodies are wearing out, but there's no real evidence to support that theory with Beams. Is that all you're basing it on?
I already mentioned it in these discussions. But I didn't mention some things because I knew there would be a backlash to my comments.

What I already mentioned was Beams inability to get back up and keep up with the play when he gets tackled. He's not as clean or the one touch player he used to be when going for contested loose ground ball.

Other posters here have highlighted the fact that Beams rarely runs defensively, playing a largely offensive role.

It's normal for fans to follow the ball and the play as it moves up or down the field. I found myself watching Beams a lot, rather than keeping up with the play. He really did struggle to get off the ground, more often that not accompanied by lots of wincing and you could see he was visibly in pain. Not only that, he often would look to the closest ref with a questioning look on his face (I'm not going to speculate why) or it looked like he was pouting.

I wasn't looking at tapping, I was looking at Beams behaviour and reactions.

That's what my opinion is based on.
 

13Beast

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If we get an offer then I think we will talk to him. I don't think it would matter where he goes as long as it is in Melbourne



I would be ok with this but I get a feeling Essendon would want maybe our third round pick as well, maybe even our second. Essendon does seem like the destination for him though. Maybe Beams and our second for their first 2. Our second pick then is moved up about 10/12 places (after PP and FA) and we keep a second round pick (all be it about 5 spots back)
You are probably correct. Essendon are notorious pratts at the trade table and would try to fleece a lop sided deal in their favour every which way since Sunday.
 

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Chezz

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I already mentioned it in these discussions. But I didn't mention some things because I knew there would be a backlash to my comments.

What I already mentioned was Beams inability to get back up and keep up with the play when he gets tackled. He's not as clean or the one touch player he used to be when going for contested loose ground ball.

Other posters here have highlighted the fact that Beams rarely runs defensively, playing a largely offensive role.

It's normal for fans to follow the ball and the play as it moves up or down the field. I found myself watching Beams a lot, rather than keeping up with the play. He really did struggle to get off the ground, more often that not accompanied by lots of wincing and you could see he was visibly in pain. Not only that, he often would look to the closest ref with a questioning look on his face (I'm not going to speculate why) or it looked like he was pouting.

I wasn't looking at tapping, I was looking at Beams behaviour and reactions.

That's what my opinion is based on.
Beams looked tired at the end of season, but as did all our players, especially our young guns. Beams has never been a good defensive runner, even at Collingwood, so that's irrelevant. He's also hardly missed a game through injury last few years.

So disagree on Beams and some of your draft suggestions, but love the differing views. It would be a very boring forum if we all thought the same way
 

briztoon

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Beams looked tired at the end of season, but as did all our players, especially our young guns. Beams has never been a good defensive runner, even at Collingwood, so that's irrelevant. He's also hardly missed a game through injury last few years.

So disagree on Beams and some of your draft suggestions, but love the differing views. It would be a very boring forum if we all thought the same way
Wasn't just the end of the season, it was the whole season.
 
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Wasn't just the end of the season, it was the whole season.
I hate to agree with that but it's true. He looked like he was done early. I wondered if he was injured, not wanting to get the hard ball or bend down to pick it up.

He looked lethargic all year, maybe he wasn't so much tired as he was just done with it all.

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jackess

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I hate to agree with that but it's true. He looked like he was done early. I wondered if he was injured, not wanting to get the hard ball or bend down to pick it up.

He looked lethargic all year, maybe he wasn't so much tired as he was just done with it all.

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I thought earlier in the season it looked like he hadn’t been training a lot. Second half of the season was brilliant though.
 

Dlions

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Wasn't just the end of the season, it was the whole season.
You do realise that depression can make it seem like the weight of the World is on your shoulders, literally.
It can make you feel and look tired.
I think the things we are all seeing is more mental than anything.
He has admitted to being on medication at the moment.
He needs a bit of time and the off season could do him wonders.
 

MacMum

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Yes he did look tired and even looked at times like he didn't want to be there.....but he has been grieving as well as dealing with his private demons all season. Lets not forget he broke down in the change rooms after the win during this years 3peat (which wasn't all that long ago) and young Raynor comforted him....

...Dayne is a long way from being well at this stage is my guess, certainly getting there, but not yet.

Hope the long break can help him work out what he wants and needs......and always hoping that we are still part of his future.
 

a mayes ing

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I hate to agree with that but it's true. He looked like he was done early. I wondered if he was injured, not wanting to get the hard ball or bend down to pick it up.

He looked lethargic all year, maybe he wasn't so much tired as he was just done with it all.

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I remember saying this earlier in the year. I said he should actually have a bit of time off because of bad body language (tired etc.) and dare l say it, got shouted down :D
 

brutus76

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He worked his *** off every time i saw him.
Was getting tagged most weeks.
Would rest up forward and made an impact on the scoreboard as the young guys needed to rotate more as they don't have the tank.
If you actually watched a game to see how hard he works for himself and the team (blocking/tackling/making space) you'd know.

All this with his father passing and the mental and emotional stress he would be under and trying to be a leader for a team with a lot of inexperience I think he had a **** good year all things considering.
 
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I remember saying this earlier in the year. I said he should actually have a bit of time off because of bad body language (tired etc.) and dare l say it, got shouted down :D
And so you should have been. I mean come on, Making a suggestion on a forum. What were you thinking?

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