2018 Trade and FA thread (opposition supporters post in Trade Hypotheticals thread)

[theteamtobeat]

Judging from the St Kilda game, we need guys who can distribute the ball with good kicking skills. Rory Laird, Jake Lloyd, Kade Kolodjashnij and Nic Newman are probably the type of players I would be targeting, who have good foot skills.

If it was up to me I would be targeting Lloyd because he's the most gettable and we wouldn't have to give up much. Lloyd would provide great support for players like Rich and Witherdan, once Hodge retires. I would be trading Bastinac and maybe 4th round pick.

 

[Lionsrbest2]

I find it funny when someone raises an idea and others find the negative with it and don't come forward with a solution of their own because you know that'll fix things wouldn't it?

Touche!!! Your absolutely right. The Lions must and should explore all options, but ,in all future recruiting decisions ,remember and acknowledge their sins of the past.We must be smarter. It is imperative that if we are to bring in talent we bring in either ,existing A grade talent or talent that has the highest potential to be A grade. A lot harder than it seems ( just ask my dad )I feel a lot of lions supporters have etched in their memories ,the appalling decisions of the past but in saying that,( although I put my personal views into the discussions and am not afriad to do so ), it in no way should be seen as dismissive of yours or anyone elses comments. Everything is subject and I openly admit ,I am not an expert but everyones point of view should be respected and most importantly encouraged ,whether people agree with it or not. So ,I say, keep coming up with ideas. I am not familiar with all AFL listed players but what I really do enjoy reading , is your input/ insights along with everyone else’s.Keep putting forward solutions you believe , will enable us ,as a club ,move forward sooner rather than latter to the holy grail. I believe winged1 was not launching an attack on your suggestion, ( nor was I)but merely highlighting the clubs past decisions that were, in hindsight,very poor to say the least.

 

[Lionsrbest2]

Judging from the St Kilda game, we need guys who can distribute the ball with good kicking skills. Rory Laird, Jake Lloyd, Kade Kolodjashnij and Nic Newman are probably the type of players I would be targeting, who have good foot skills.

If it was up to me I would be targeting Lloyd because he's the most gettable and we wouldn't have to give up much. Lloyd would provide great support for players like Rich and Witherdan, once Hodge retires. I would be trading Bastinac and maybe 4th round pick.

Interesting ,i would do a straight swap if they take it due to salary cap pressure.jake Lloyd that is.

Judging from the St Kilda game, we need guys who can distribute the ball with good kicking skills. Rory Laird, Jake Lloyd, Kade Kolodjashnij and Nic Newman are probably the type of players I would be targeting, who have good foot skills.

If it was up to me I would be targeting Lloyd because he's the most gettable and we wouldn't have to give up much. Lloyd would provide great support for players like Rich and Witherdan, once Hodge retires. I would be trading Bastinac and maybe 4th round pick.

Interesting regards Jake Lloyd . If the swans have pressure with salary cap ,a straight swap with Basti ( Basti may take a pay cut just to stay in the system) or a lower pick than 4th rounder. Is he unsigned or FA.
Rory Laird ,what is his contract status. Regards Kade , a clear no due to concussion concerns. Bad vibes ,remember what happed to one of our future stars.

 

[dlanod]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who used to get them mixed up, especially when both were at Sydney.

You guys aren't even the only two.

 

[winged1]

dont think we had a schneider...you thinking of Buchanan?

They were all beige, but yes.

 

[winged1]

I find it funny when someone raises an idea and others find the negative with it and don't come forward with a solution of their own because you know that'll fix things wouldn't it?

My point was it wasn't exactly a unique idea, we have been doing it for years. I left off the Carlton players we have taken because you said "upper tier teams".

 

[winged1]

I find it funny when someone raises an idea and others find the negative with it and don't come forward with a solution of their own because you know that'll fix things wouldn't it?

When we built the premiership team we drafted and kept them (largely). Yes we got Lynch on a hail Mary deal but that only paid off in the back end. Other than that we got in role players Pike and Michael. The rest we drafted and kept together.

We have tried the money ball play, it has been unsuccessful

 

[POBT]

When we built the premiership team we drafted and kept them (largely). Yes we got Lynch on a hail Mary deal but that only paid off in the back end. Other than that we got in role players Pike and Michael. The rest we drafted and kept together.

We have tried the money ball play, it has been unsuccessful

We built our premiership team 20 years ago. The football world has changed. Players are far more willing to move for money and opportunity. If you don’t take advantage of that, you lose a viable way of adding to your list.

After the Fevola trade debacle, people were saying we should never trade again. That was crap. You don’t stop doing something because you make mistakes. You learn from your mistakes and keep trying.

The draft should be the centrepiece of any rebuild but it can’t be the only component.

 

[winged1]

We built our premiership team 20 years ago. The football world has changed. Players are far more willing to move for money and opportunity. If you don’t take advantage of that, you lose a viable way of adding to your list.

After the Fevola trade debacle, people were saying we should never trade again. That was crap. You don’t stop doing something because you make mistakes. You learn from your mistakes and keep trying.

The draft should be the centrepiece of any rebuild but it can’t be the only component.

Yes and we need to trade in for specific need (role players) not "they are happy to come to brisbane".

Of the recent ones, we paid good money for Bastinac, who was in the twos at North. He is in the twos here too. Frost was a specific need, hasn't worked. Bell was a qlder who wanted to extend his career, hasnt worked.

The only real success has been Robinson, who was similar to Pike, it was his last chance.

Generally we have not played the money ball play very well.

I'm not saying we don't try, but we need to be more selective.

My main point was, this isn't a new idea we have been trying for years.

 

[captainrich]

Yes and we need to trade in for specific need (role players) not "they are happy to come to brisbane".

Of the recent ones, we paid good money for Bastinac, who was in the twos at North. He is in the twos here too. Frost was a specific need, hasn't worked. Bell was a qlder who wanted to extend his career, hasnt worked.

The only real success has been Robinson, who was similar to Pike, it was his last chance.

Generally we have not played the money ball play very well.

I'm not saying we don't try, but we need to be more selective.

My main point was, this isn't a new idea we have been trying for years.

we've picked the wrong options too many times, many players who clubs have acquired for sweet eff all and they have gone on to have made impacts for their new teams (just naming examples from the last few trade periods of players who were traded for anything after the third round)

jeff Garlett, marley williams, jarryd lyons, jacob townsend

 

[winged1]

we've picked the wrong options too many times, many players who clubs have acquired for sweet eff all and they have gone on to have made impacts for their new teams (just naming examples from the last few trade periods of players who were traded for anything after the third round)

jeff Garlett, marley williams, jarryd lyons, jacob townsend

The theme (outside of Lyons) being they were all talented but a bit troubled. Lyons wanted out.

 

[jackess]

we've picked the wrong options too many times, many players who clubs have acquired for sweet eff all and they have gone on to have made impacts for their new teams (just naming examples from the last few trade periods of players who were traded for anything after the third round)

jeff Garlett, marley williams, jarryd lyons, jacob townsend

Our ruckman goes alright. Also Hodge.

 

[POBT]

Certain posters on here thought we overpaid for Stef Martin and chucked a tantrum at the time of that trade. I’d argue Stef has been a success at the price we paid.

Teams have 40 odd spots on the list. I think there’s generally room for a shy at the stumps at young fringe players at other clubs who we think have some talent. Right now, we have several “recycled” types on our list so we probably don’t need any more but, as our list composition changes, we shouldn’t be philosophically opposed to trading in guys who have spent time on other teams’ lists but are looking for greater opportunity.

Indeed, I struggle with the notion that taking an 18yo in the draft is somehow a risk more worth taking. Surely guys in the system present a far more known proposition, given they’ve got exposed form in senior company (AFL or State league) and you have the benefit of time in the professional system. The challenge, as it is with drafting, is to get your decision making right more often than you get it wrong. Some level of failure is inevitable. We have yet to get it right often enough and are carrying a couple of contracts because of that (pre Fagan/Noble signings). But that doesn’t mean it is a fundamentally flawed practice.

 

[dlanod]

The theme (outside of Lyons) being they were all talented but a bit troubled. Lyons wanted out.

Townsend definitely wasn't troubled. So... 50/50?

 

[winged1]

Certain posters on here thought we overpaid for Stef Martin and chucked a tantrum at the time of that trade. I’d argue Stef has been a success at the price we paid.

Teams have 40 odd spots on the list. I think there’s generally room for a shy at the stumps at young fringe players at other clubs who we think have some talent. Right now, we have several “recycled” types on our list so we probably don’t need any more but, as our list composition changes, we shouldn’t be philosophically opposed to trading in guys who have spent time on other teams’ lists but are looking for greater opportunity.

Indeed, I struggle with the notion that taking an 18yo in the draft is somehow a risk more worth taking. Surely guys in the system present a far more known proposition, given they’ve got exposed form in senior company (AFL or State league) and you have the benefit of time in the professional system. The challenge, as it is with drafting, is to get your decision making right more often than you get it wrong. Some level of failure is inevitable. We have yet to get it right often enough and are carrying a couple of contracts because of that (pre Fagan/Noble signings). But that doesn’t mean it is a fundamentally flawed practice.

Except Stef was drafted as a fwd who could pinch hit in the ruck. It could be argued on that front we failed because he can't play that role. It was only because Leuey is as reliable as an old Alfa that he got a shot at first ruck.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Except Stef was drafted as a fwd who could pinch hit in the ruck.

Was he? My recollection was that Ben Hudson was on the way out and we needed an immediate mature replacement because Leuenberger was constantly injured.

My memory could definitely be wrong though.

 

[dlanod]

Was he? My recollection was that Ben Hudson was on the way out and we needed an immediate mature replacement because Leuenberger was constantly injured.

My memory could definitely be wrong though.

I had a similar memory but looked it up - Stef played the first four games of the following year out of the forward line beyond Longer and Leuey, and was mentioned in articles at the time as "ruckman-forward" and a possible "foil for Brown", so it convinced me winged1's memory was better than mine.

 

[Lionsrbest2]

When we built the premiership team we drafted and kept them (largely). Yes we got Lynch on a hail Mary deal but that only paid off in the back end. Other than that we got in role players Pike and Michael. The rest we drafted and kept together.

We have tried the money ball play, it has been unsuccessful

We have tried the money ball play, it has been unsuccessful.

I will take that comment as a generalisation. I do not know ,what players are offered but the most prominent player to take the money ball was A Lynch from Fitzroy.He was a brilliant talent who was extremely successful at the Brisbane lions. I get your point though, but I still personally believe select targeting of top end talent via money as an incentive is very important to a non footy state. If we can get another 3 A grade players, it is the icing on top of the cake and by that I mean either through FA ,or uncontracted players whom we can pick up from the preseason draft without the need to use draft picks. For me draft picks are to be used either to better our position in the draft position via swaps / trading or simply having faith in our recruiting team to draft the best talent available.

 

[jackess]

Except Stef was drafted as a fwd who could pinch hit in the ruck. It could be argued on that front we failed because he can't play that role. It was only because Leuey is as reliable as an old Alfa that he got a shot at first ruck.

He only played 5 games for us in that role and was ok. I definitely think he could’ve played that role adequately and would have been worth the picks we gave up for him.

 

[DanT7]

he was coming through our academy we did not rate him at all as we didn't put up his name to even potentially rookie him let alone take him in the draft. we need midfielders, small forwards and backflankers anyway not speculative ruck forwards

I don’t think we need small forwards...
Our biggest gap is half backs and midfielders.
While Gardiner gets a game, we are clearly short on defenders.

 

[spotthedog1]

Certain posters on here thought we overpaid for Stef Martin and chucked a tantrum at the time of that trade. I’d argue Stef has been a success at the price we paid.

Teams have 40 odd spots on the list. I think there’s generally room for a shy at the stumps at young fringe players at other clubs who we think have some talent. Right now, we have several “recycled” types on our list so we probably don’t need any more but, as our list composition changes, we shouldn’t be philosophically opposed to trading in guys who have spent time on other teams’ lists but are looking for greater opportunity.

Indeed, I struggle with the notion that taking an 18yo in the draft is somehow a risk more worth taking. Surely guys in the system present a far more known proposition, given they’ve got exposed form in senior company (AFL or State league) and you have the benefit of time in the professional system. The challenge, as it is with drafting, is to get your decision making right more often than you get it wrong. Some level of failure is inevitable. We have yet to get it right often enough and are carrying a couple of contracts because of that (pre Fagan/Noble signings). But that doesn’t mean it is a fundamentally flawed practice.

Agree - Stef has been cheap based on what we paid for him.

The risk vs reward measure is tough, but if you're trading in a known quantity, you have to be careful with a known ceiling. If a player's ceiling is likely to be no more than a bit part player, then there's no point really. Could be better to take a shy at the stumps on a young, raw kid. A Jobe Watson or a Matt Priddis or a Tom Rockliff only come along every couple of years, but still, better to take a 2 year shot and see how you go and then delist them than to pick up a player who'll never be consistently best 22.

Of course, to contradict myself, we've also had our fair share of successes with that. Matt Maguire was a cheap recycle who was pretty handy. And Stef has worked out well for us. Staker, Hudson, arguably Josh Walker. I suppose, rather banally, the answer is "sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't".

 

[winged1]

I had a similar memory but looked it up - Stef played the first four games of the following year out of the forward line beyond Longer and Leuey, and was mentioned in articles at the time as "ruckman-forward" and a possible "foil for Brown", so it convinced me winged1's memory was better than mine.

What were we talking about again?

 

[winged1]

We have tried the money ball play, it has been unsuccessful.

I will take that comment as a generalisation. I do not know ,what players are offered but the most prominent player to take the money ball was A Lynch from Fitzroy.He was a brilliant talent who was extremely successful at the Brisbane lions. I get your point though, but I still personally believe select targeting of top end talent via money as an incentive is very important to a non footy state. If we can get another 3 A grade players, it is the icing on top of the cake and by that I mean either through FA ,or uncontracted players whom we can pick up from the preseason draft without the need to use draft picks. For me draft picks are to be used either to better our position in the draft position via swaps / trading or simply having faith in our recruiting team to draft the best talent available.

Well again my main point, after it was suggested that we troll through upper tier lists is:

We have been trying it for years. It has proved to be inconsistent at best.

 

[winged1]

Agree - Stef has been cheap based on what we paid for him.

.

That wasn't the feeling for his first couple of years and was probably looking at being delisted before getting a crack at no 1 ruck

 

[dlanod]

Remembered that Stef was recruited in the age of Rob Kerr's write-ups... Definite focus was on recruiting a ruck and Stef's ruckwork, not as a forward.

In terms of the support ruck role - Ben Hudson was added to our list prior to the drafting of Billy Longer in order to provide support for what were quite thin ruck stocks at that stage. As all supporters know, Ben ended up with the Herculian role of carrying our ruck division throughout the bulk of the year and he performed magnificently. Going into the trade period, Ben was considering his future and we were also mindful of the possible changes occurring with the rules governing ruck contests. To this end, we had an interest in finding a younger ruckman who had the capacity to play more than one position.

Ideally, Michael Voss would like to play two ruckmen, however that option is limiting if the ruckman can only play in the ruck. While forwards pinch-hitting in the ruck is the current trend, this is a very demanding role which appears to have impacted on the form of some players.

...

Stefan’s athleticism (he has run a 10:30 3km time trial and also finished 2nd in a Grand Final sprint) and the fact that he has also played in defence, where he started his career, as well as his ability to pinch hit up forward was attractive. In 2011, his output in the ruck was very strong as reflected by the fact that he finished 8th in Melbourne’s Best and Fairest. Nevertheless it cannot be denied that he is still yet to firmly establish himself at AFL level. Even though he is 25, he has only been playing the game since he was 19 so we believe there is some upside in his football.

In adding Stefan, we are confident we have the makings of a good ruck division with each member having the ability to contribute both in the ruck and in another position.

http://www.lions.com.au/news/2012-11-07/tradeanalysis2012