List Mgmt. 2018 Trade, Free Agency & Draft thread

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Jul 26, 2007
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The Tree
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If he's worth 1.5m, then so is Browny.

Yeah, they're pretty close at the moment.

I'd want to see Lynch absolutely monster this year before thinking it's a decent idea.
 

HELLSBELLS

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Brown is definitely worth the same money as Lynch. The extra money is purely to make the player move obviously
 
Apr 1, 2008
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Brown is definitely worth the same money as Lynch. The extra money is purely to make the player move obviously

That's all well and good but you wouldn't be getting 1.5m a year value out of him.

That's 'clearly best player in the comp' type money.
 

Jindrrk

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I want a Carey for 1.5m.....oh wait we did for about that :).

But yeh for that cash I definitely think would need to be as good as. It's the cash part, not the fitting in team part. Get the best talent available. As Filth said, will need to show his worth.

And football game style is a cycle. If people think that Richmond/Bulldogs created a wave of how football will be played from now on, just wait until the next premiers change it again if they win it a different way.
 

Passmore

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May 22, 2001
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I want a Carey for 1.5m.....oh wait we did for about that :).

But yeh for that cash I definitely think would need to be as good as. It's the cash part, not the fitting in team part. Get the best talent available. As Filth said, will need to show his worth.

And football game style is a cycle. If people think that Richmond/Bulldogs created a wave of how football will be played from now on, just wait until the next premiers change it again if they win it a different way.

The team that won 13-15 went pretty tall up forward.
 
And football game style is a cycle. If people think that Richmond/Bulldogs created a wave of how football will be played from now on, just wait until the next premiers change it again if they win it a different way.

Yep.
 
People who think grabbing a Walsh, Thomas, Scott and Kelly will complete our rebuild are dreaming.

Another 2-3 midfielders.

Absolutely CQ. Those additions would give us a base to work with, which means further development years ahead with some savvy additions to bolster the stocks along the way.
 
Not necessarily a big recruit Tom Lynch fan - haven't seen enough either way but looking at the stats he'd potentially be a great double act with Brown. Gets more disposals, inside 50's, tackles and a higher efficiency seems more mobile / agile based on these figures. Brown kicks more goals and takes more contested marks. I've not watched enough to know - I mean, who really watches GCS - but Lynch could potentially be a great higher / CHF style player to Brown out of the square. Remember Waite is gone any week now really...

Wouldn't be the worst idea at the right price but obviously we need more power in the middle either way - not much point building a massive forward line if you can't get it there.
 
Apr 24, 2013
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The next "style" will be tall forwards as well, probably from about 2019/20.


This is my hunch also.

A longer kicking game to beat the press will see big marking players return to vogue (at least I hope so, because this current stuff is unbearable to watch).
 
Apr 24, 2013
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We need to heavily target midfielders in the next 2-3 drafts, organise a deal for Kelly and completely overhaul the backhalf.

People who think grabbing a Walsh, Thomas, Scott and Kelly will complete our rebuild are dreaming.

Another 2-3 midfielders.

That's it. This combined with the rest getting on the park and delivering on expectations will put us back in to calculations very quickly.
 
Jun 9, 2001
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This is my hunch also.

A longer kicking game to beat the press will see big marking players return to vogue (at least I hope so, because this current stuff is unbearable to watch).

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Jun 8, 2004
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The next "style" will be tall forwards as well, probably from about 2019/20.
This is my hunch also.

A longer kicking game to beat the press will see big marking players return to vogue (at least I hope so, because this current stuff is unbearable to watch).

I suspect it will go back to taller forwards again but for different reasons.

I think the AFL will tamper with the rules to stop the flooding back.
 
Jan 25, 2016
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I've done up a fantasy end of year trade scenario below, so please skip this if you're not into it.

I'm not giving up on the aggressive reset just yet and therefore have had a crack at that. My main aims are to keep regenerating the list by moving on the remaining older players and hitting the draft. On that note, I want us to be taking TWO picks before TT, so have targeted moving on some players with currency in order to achieve that. But I also want to use our cap space to pick up free agents that will benefit us - anyone who will still be on the list by 2021 I've considered.

The draft picks in the trades are based on my ladder predictor and last year's trades of 2018 picks, so you'll just have to trust me on those. I have us finishing 15th, so we start with picks 4, 22, 42 (WC), 44 (StK), 58 & 76.

Trade 1 - Goldy has a good year, but we decide Preuss is the future and move Goldy on. Geelong yet again bow out in the prelims and look for a better ruck to make the most of their midfield whilst still have it. We trade Goldy and pick 22 to Geelong for picks 16 & 49. Goldy equivalent to pick 36.

Trade 2 - Adelaide lose Sloane to free agency and are looking for a midfielder to replace him. Dumont has improved again this year, but we see other players overtaking him, so we send him home for Adelaide's pick 37.

Trade 3 - Hrovat also improves, but we see other players overtaking him. Carlton still has more need for players with solid scoring involvements. We trade Hrovat and pick 44 to Carlton for pick 35. Hrovat equivalent to pick 59.

Trade 4 - This is a pick swap only with Sydney, which they are keen on as Blakey definitely won't slip to their pick 14 and they are looking to increase points. We trade our picks 35, 37 & 49 to Sydney for picks 14 & 68. Under this trade we lose 72 points.

Trade 5 - Another pick swap, as we look to leverage our two picks in the teens to get a top 10 pick, which will definitely be before TT. Despite being burnt so many times before, we trade picks 14 & 16 to Hawthorn for picks 9 & 27. Under this trade we lose 56 points.

Trade 6 - Mountford continues to improve, but seeks a trade home. We trade Mountford and picks 27 & 76 to West Coast for picks 24 & 63. Mountford equivalent to pick 56.

Trade 7 - Clarke also continues to improve, but we are looking for more draft points and think others will move past him. We trade him and pick 68 to Essendon for pick 36, which makes Clarke equivalent to pick 39.

Trade 8 - So that we have the right number of picks to take to the draft, we package up picks 58 & 63 and send them to Collingwood (who needs an extra pick) for pick 50. Under this trade we lose 9 points.

Free agency 1 - We pick up Sloane from Adelaide. Whilst it would be great if he were a year or two younger, he still has plenty of good football left in him - we offer him a 4 year contract and he's still only 32 in the last year of that contract (2022). Immediately becomes our best midfielder. Is also a leader and would be a great addition to the club.

Free agency 2 - We pick up Dahlhaus from Western. I really rate him and his versatility would be very useful.

At the draft we take picks 4 and 9. Then picks 24, 36 & 42 (which total 1,682 points) cover bids for TT, Scott and Crocker at picks 15, 31 & 43 (which total 1,677 points). We then use pick 50 to promote Zurhaar.

In all, our 2018 list movements are:
Out: Waite & Thompson (retire), Anderson (delisted), Goldstein, Dumont, Hrovat, Mountford & Clarke (traded)
In: Sloane, Dahlhaus, TT, Scott, Crocker and picks 4 & 9. Also a rookie x 1, which is replacing Zurhaar's promotion to the main list.

Onto salary cap space. We offered Dusty $1.3m and Kelly $1.0m p.a. So I'm assuming we have that space available in the four years 2019-22. We have also been amending/extending contracts to bring forward salaries into 2018. So I'm going to assume we've added ~$500k to the future salary cap space - i.e. we have $2.8m in cap space for 2019-22. I'm going to offer $1m of that to Sloane and $700k to Dahlhaus. $1.1m remaining. But with Goldy, Waite and Thompson moving on, that will make another $1.4m available. Therefore I'm going with us still having $2.5m in salary cap space available at end 2019.

We then use that cap space to trade for Kelly (2019 & 2020 first round picks) and pick up Shiel as a free agent. Our 2020 side looks like this:

B: EVW - Tarrant - M Williams
HB: Dahlhaus - Durdin - McDonald
C: Simpkin - Shiel - Kelly
HF: Garner - Wood - Higgins
F: Turner - Brown - Ziebell
Foll: Preuss - Sloane - Cunnington
Int: LDU - Ahern - 2018 Pick 4 - 2018 Pick 9
Emerg: Thomas - Macmillan - Atley
Depth: (Some of these will go end 2019) Jacobs - Scott - McKay - Hibberd - Walker - Zurhaar - Hayden - J Williams - Daw - Murphy - Hartung - Morgan - Wright - Nielson - Crocker - Larkey - Junker - Xerri - Narrier - Jeffries - other 2019 draft picks

TLDR - We win the premiership in 2020, 2021 & 2022.
 
Jan 25, 2016
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^ needs more Jeremy McGovern or Tom Lynch as a free agent

And another trade target of Angus Brayshaw or Aaron Hall both out of contract
Would take McGovern in a heartbeat, but think it's highly unlikely he leaves WA.

Also like Brayshaw, not so sure about Hall, but don't think we have the currency to trade for them if we take all the picks, academy & f/s players I mentioned (which I'd prefer).
 

nicko74

Premiership Player
Nov 29, 2010
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I've done up a fantasy end of year trade scenario below, so please skip this if you're not into it.

I'm not giving up on the aggressive reset just yet and therefore have had a crack at that. My main aims are to keep regenerating the list by moving on the remaining older players and hitting the draft. On that note, I want us to be taking TWO picks before TT, so have targeted moving on some players with currency in order to achieve that. But I also want to use our cap space to pick up free agents that will benefit us - anyone who will still be on the list by 2021 I've considered.

The draft picks in the trades are based on my ladder predictor and last year's trades of 2018 picks, so you'll just have to trust me on those. I have us finishing 15th, so we start with picks 4, 22, 42 (WC), 44 (StK), 58 & 76.

Trade 1 - Goldy has a good year, but we decide Preuss is the future and move Goldy on. Geelong yet again bow out in the prelims and look for a better ruck to make the most of their midfield whilst still have it. We trade Goldy and pick 22 to Geelong for picks 16 & 49. Goldy equivalent to pick 36.

Trade 2 - Adelaide lose Sloane to free agency and are looking for a midfielder to replace him. Dumont has improved again this year, but we see other players overtaking him, so we send him home for Adelaide's pick 37.

Trade 3 - Hrovat also improves, but we see other players overtaking him. Carlton still has more need for players with solid scoring involvements. We trade Hrovat and pick 44 to Carlton for pick 35. Hrovat equivalent to pick 59.

Trade 4 - This is a pick swap only with Sydney, which they are keen on as Blakey definitely won't slip to their pick 14 and they are looking to increase points. We trade our picks 35, 37 & 49 to Sydney for picks 14 & 68. Under this trade we lose 72 points.

Trade 5 - Another pick swap, as we look to leverage our two picks in the teens to get a top 10 pick, which will definitely be before TT. Despite being burnt so many times before, we trade picks 14 & 16 to Hawthorn for picks 9 & 27. Under this trade we lose 56 points.

Trade 6 - Mountford continues to improve, but seeks a trade home. We trade Mountford and picks 27 & 76 to West Coast for picks 24 & 63. Mountford equivalent to pick 56.

Trade 7 - Clarke also continues to improve, but we are looking for more draft points and think others will move past him. We trade him and pick 68 to Essendon for pick 36, which makes Clarke equivalent to pick 39.

Trade 8 - So that we have the right number of picks to take to the draft, we package up picks 58 & 63 and send them to Collingwood (who needs an extra pick) for pick 50. Under this trade we lose 9 points.

Free agency 1 - We pick up Sloane from Adelaide. Whilst it would be great if he were a year or two younger, he still has plenty of good football left in him - we offer him a 4 year contract and he's still only 32 in the last year of that contract (2022). Immediately becomes our best midfielder. Is also a leader and would be a great addition to the club.

Free agency 2 - We pick up Dahlhaus from Western. I really rate him and his versatility would be very useful.

At the draft we take picks 4 and 9. Then picks 24, 36 & 42 (which total 1,682 points) cover bids for TT, Scott and Crocker at picks 15, 31 & 43 (which total 1,677 points). We then use pick 50 to promote Zurhaar.

In all, our 2018 list movements are:
Out: Waite & Thompson (retire), Anderson (delisted), Goldstein, Dumont, Hrovat, Mountford & Clarke (traded)
In: Sloane, Dahlhaus, TT, Scott, Crocker and picks 4 & 9. Also a rookie x 1, which is replacing Zurhaar's promotion to the main list.

Onto salary cap space. We offered Dusty $1.3m and Kelly $1.0m p.a. So I'm assuming we have that space available in the four years 2019-22. We have also been amending/extending contracts to bring forward salaries into 2018. So I'm going to assume we've added ~$500k to the future salary cap space - i.e. we have $2.8m in cap space for 2019-22. I'm going to offer $1m of that to Sloane and $700k to Dahlhaus. $1.1m remaining. But with Goldy, Waite and Thompson moving on, that will make another $1.4m available. Therefore I'm going with us still having $2.5m in salary cap space available at end 2019.

We then use that cap space to trade for Kelly (2019 & 2020 first round picks) and pick up Shiel as a free agent. Our 2020 side looks like this:

B: EVW - Tarrant - M Williams
HB: Dahlhaus - Durdin - McDonald
C: Simpkin - Shiel - Kelly
HF: Garner - Wood - Higgins
F: Turner - Brown - Ziebell
Foll: Preuss - Sloane - Cunnington
Int: LDU - Ahern - 2018 Pick 4 - 2018 Pick 9
Emerg: Thomas - Macmillan - Atley
Depth: (Some of these will go end 2019) Jacobs - Scott - McKay - Hibberd - Walker - Zurhaar - Hayden - J Williams - Daw - Murphy - Hartung - Morgan - Wright - Nielson - Crocker - Larkey - Junker - Xerri - Narrier - Jeffries - other 2019 draft picks

TLDR - We win the premiership in 2020, 2021 & 2022.
You must have alot of time on your hands.... but I like your work
 
Josh Kelly reveals he initially thought he would leave GWS for North Melbourne’s mega offer last year
JON RALPH, Herald Sun
March 17, 2018 7:00pm
Subscriber only

FOR every nightclub-hopping AFL bad boy, there are dozens who quietly start charities and visit sick kids in hospitals.

Some players are pitched as mercenaries when they leap clubs for fat contracts but many pass up huge figures to stay loyal.

Just because it doesn’t make a sexy headline — “Loyal AFL player doesn’t move clubs” — it doesn’t lessen the significance.

Josh Kelly will probably retire filthy rich with more money than you or I could dream about.

Yet last year he turned down the rolled-gold guarantee of $7 million.

In a world where people cross to a business rival for $20,000 and a car park, it’s worth repeating again.

Faced with a deal that would guarantee he was set for life — North Melbourne’s $9 million, nine-year deal — he just said no.

Thanks, but no thanks.

In a game where careers are over in the wrench of a knee or the crack of cartilage, he just politely declined.

You think that was hard?

Kelly had to knock it back and then tell his mum Trish.

The 23-year-old, who ended up signing a two-year, $1.6 million deal, sits at GWS headquarters charting the most turbulent year of his short career.

Stressed?

He looks like he doesn’t have a care in the world, comfortable he made the right decision after withstanding a full season of speculation.

But Mum?

“Mum said, ‘Right decision, but I wish I had you back.’ Something like that,’’ chuckles Kelly.

“They were great to me, mum and dad (Phil) were always there for an honest chat along the way.


“They basically left it up to me, they let me make all the important decisions with their guidance and help.”

Talk to anyone within GWS and they use words to describe Kelly like methodical, process-driven, fastidious.

The story goes that when it came to buying his first car he spent months researching, comparing models, racked with uncertainty until he had done the work.

That personality trait might have also kept him in Sydney.

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Josh Kelly says it was hard to tell his mum he has chosen to stay in Sydney.
Just three seasons and a few months into his AFL career, former No.2 pick Kelly suddenly exploded as a bona fide AFL star.


And then the bomb dropped.

Not only had Kelly been offered the second-biggest deal in AFL history by North Melbourne, it was the club his father Phil played 61 games as a wingman.

Kelly admits to News Corp there were times he believed he would return home.

“No doubt early on (I was leaning towards leaving),’’ he says.

“It was a bit like, ‘There is a bit happening here. I am from Melbourne, how could I not (accept it)?’.

“But people close to me said, ‘Let it sit, play out the year. See how you feel and don’t make any rash decisions’.”

He admits the sheer scope of the money on offer seemed impossible to ignore.

“Yeah, that was the thing early on when the story broke and I found out (about the offer) for the first time. It was obviously a bit of a shock and a bit surreal, what was being chucked around.

“There is no doubt early on, even my teammates were giving it to me a bit and I thought, ‘Maybe they are right?’

“But it all become clear to me once the season went on. For a long time I put it on the backburner and the Giants just said they didn’t need anything from me and let me focus on footy.

“So I was able to speak to the right people, my family and friends and Leon (Cameron) and our two captains and come up with a decision I was comfortable with.

“Probably a few weeks out from the finals I started to have a gut feel about staying at the Giants.

“I started to feel that way and then wanted to sit on it for a bit and it ended up being before the prelim that it was announced I had committed.

“So it was all a bit of a whirlwind.”

If Kelly admits dodging the summer spotlight is much more relaxing, he believes the contract drama actually spurred him to greater heights.

As Billie Jean King famously said, pressure is a privilege.

“It was something I didn’t plan for or expect but I feel like it was something that helped my development,’’ Kelly says.

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Josh Kelly says the pressure to perform actually helped him take his game to the next level.

“All of a sudden I had this expectation on my shoulders and people expected me to be a player that justified what was going on in the media.

“I enjoyed that expectation of having to compete. I feel like it fast-tracked my development, no doubt.

“I had gone from being a player who had a solid third year, good start to my fourth year, and then that popped up.

“I felt like I could push it to the side or use it as motivation to be the player I could be.”

That kind of pressure has cracked tougher players, but his response to the baying Tigers crowd on preliminary final night is instructive.

He won’t soon forget the deafening roar of the preliminary final, a roiling cauldron of Tigers supporters packing the MCG.

“To be honest it was a pretty surreal day. I have never played in front of a crowd like that before. A crowd so big and with so many Tigers supporters,” he said.

Intimidating?

“No, I wouldn’t say intimidating. Maybe for some players it was, but I was in awe of it and felt pretty excited by the whole occasion.”

Teammate Toby Greene spent Grand Final day on a party boat moored off an island in the middle of Sydney Harbour without a care in the world.

That’s just Toby, God love him.

Greene was tucked up on the couch letting the anger burn.

“I watched it. I have watched the last two from home. It’s been hard but I think it drives you, watching the Bulldogs and Richmond hold up the cup,” he said.

“It’s been tough, but I feel like it’s fuelled the fire a bit. For a long time people outside have said it will be gifted to the Giants.

“We never bought into that. We feel like we have had two pretty solid years but if you are not there with the cup on Grand Final day you aren’t successful.”

As a result, he has spent the summer tapping into Giants’ streamlined game plan and his own personal goals.

Leon Cameron is adamant the Giants need to build a “better brand” for September that is clearly built on forward pressure and restricting opposition ball flow.

The Giants had 16 forward-half tackles in their JLT win over Collingwood, but they will play more of an 18-man press too.

“We tried a few things last year that didn’t eventuate,’’ says Kelly.

“This year we want to go back to moving the footy in a way that suits how we play and then improve defensively.

“That is the footy that holds up in finals. We have worked on that over summer with a few little changes and acknowledging teams are better at moving the footy now.

“It all starts with the forwards when teams are exiting the defence, but for them to do their job us as mids and defenders need to put up and make sure there aren’t easy options coming out.”

Kelly’s improvement will come from improved clearance work and picking when to hit the near-impossible kick and when to pull back.

It is put to him that like Nathan Buckley before him he is always keen to bite off the hardest possible kicking option.

“There is no doubt I have always been a bit like that — it’s a strength of my game but there is no doubt I could rope it back a bit and play the easy options,” he said.

“But my role is to go for it and make plays. Developing my inside game is a big one.

“I need to keep working on that to mix it up with some of the better contested players in the competition.

“I was able to take up a step up with my footy last year and improve but now I feel there is that expectation on me to maintain that level if not go better.

“I am looking forward to that. It’s something I feel like I have dealt with well. I want to be the best player I can be and live up to that expectation.”

Oh, and that car he spent months researching?

No flashy Lamborghini or Rolls Royce for one of the AFL’s smoothest movers.

“Volkswagen Jetta,” he says with a grin.

“I was a bit like I just needed a car and I was thinking about it all too much.”
 

shimaburnsgrieg

Premiership Player
Apr 1, 2017
4,357
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AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yeah looks like it played out pretty much how most of us thought it would - JK weighed it all up through the year and made a decision taking into account family, money, teammates, success. The better GWS went the more likely he was to stay.

Of course we had people on here (maybe based on 'inside' info) saying he was a certainly to come to us etc...just like Dusty - but that was never the case (and remains the case today) as nothing is certain until it is.

I guess we can take some comfort - St Kilda was not mentioned...

We as a club just need to move on from this - all the talk of getting JK in 2 years is just a distraction from the holes we currently face in our list - let's worry about who actually plays for us - not about who we might or might not pick up in x years time.
 
Of course we had people on here (maybe based on 'inside' info) saying he was a certainly to come to us etc...just like Dusty - but that was never the case (and remains the case today) as nothing is certain until it is.

Nobody here with scrotal knowledge was saying that. What people were saying was that we were well and truly in the running, going against the media group think of "as if he'd leave GWS", and Carlton and St Kilda weren't even being considered. The headline of Ralph's article alone backs up that call.

As for the close confidants who guided his final decision, look no further than his manager who made it very clear that he advises his kids to re-sign with the club they've been drafted to, beyond their initial contract, as a way of re-paying them for the opportunity they've provided. His manager has to deal with all clubs and he doesn't like his charges to be seen as mercenary.

We'll touch base again in 12 months I imagine.
 
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