Training 2019/20 Preseason Training

[RanaNaved]

Who called him a champion?

 

[Capriati]

Thanks. Why doesn’t that surprise me that a newspaper ran a misleading headline.....
I agree. While Kelly is a good player I still think we paid way too much for him. Time will tell.

2 late first and 2 early/mid second rounders is a high price.

Kelly offers so much value to our team, I am not sure I can agree with the "too high a price label".

He still has 5-6 years of Elite football ahead of him, and with our KPP stocks looking good, addition of Kelly extends our premiership window.
He adds quality and depth to our midfield immediately and in to the medium-term future. When you project beyond 2021 and look at our 25 and unders, mids is the biggest area of concern. Given he is yet to turn 26, his addition to the team allays the "cliff" we were facing when Shuey/Redden/Gaff retire (or leave to play for North Melbourne ).

With the introduction of Free Agency and player's more open to moving clubs, I think you will see clubs relying less on the draft in the future. Draft picks aren't the be all end all that they once were.

Also depends what comes out of Geelongs picks. If they are all busts or don't live up to potential its not like we have come out behind.

Cooper Stephens debuted last night and didn't impress many on the Geelol board.

Word on him is he is a hardworking players with a lower ceiling than many other first rounders.

So far so good.

 

[Capriati]

I think what we can take from that hit out is that hutchings is still clearly entrenched in our best team!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

What makes you say that?

 

[new breed]

Who called him a champion?

I don't know but Suma is saying he isn't a champion and isn't buying into the hype , Lee Spurr agrees " I think Tim Kelly is going to struggle early in the gold and blue . I don't think he's going to have the year that he had last year ", Spurr said .

Suma " At the end of the day , we'll see if he can rack them up and play better than the Shueys , Yeo's and Gaffs and I don't think so ", he told 6PR .

I reckon if Suma was coaching WCE the trade with Geelong would have fallen down for sure . I'm not expecting that much from Kelly although he has always racked up possessions just the disposal was not so good at times but a great player to have in the Eagles squad for sure !!

 

[mattyc75]

What makes you say that?

Because i saw him 4 times in the highlights and I'm his sponsor[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[RanaNaved]

I don't know but Suma is saying he isn't a champion and isn't buying into the hype , Lee Spurr agrees " I think Tim Kelly is going to struggle early in the gold and blue . I don't think he's going to have the year that he had last year ", Spurr said .

Suma " At the end of the day , we'll see if he can rack them up and play better than the Shueys , Yeo's and Gaffs and I don't think so ", he told 6PR .

I reckon if Suma was coaching WCE the trade with Geelong would have fallen down for sure . I'm not expecting that much from Kelly although he has always racked up possessions just the disposal was not so good at times but a great player to have in the Eagles squad for sure !!

Any reasons for them tipping him to struggle? Or was it just visceral bs?

Trade would have gone down with Sumich. It would be in his best interests to have more mature A grade talent.

 

[Capriati]

Because i saw him 4 times in the highlights and I'm his sponsor

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

To be fair, Hutchings wasn't really featuring in the highlights, it was really to showcase Nicnat and sheed2brander2kelly2gaff2kelly2goal.

Simmo has been bullish about TK not necessarily pushing anyone out, and I think he really values the role of a tagger in a team. With #Brandertothewing becoming more and more likely, I don't understand how we fit them all in the midfield even if we do have Sheed and Kelly rotating through forward line. It's a lazy analysis but getting rid of the tagger role appears the obvious choice.

 

[FKASC]

Yes. Made it look easy didn't he.

Would have preferred he used his left, but can’t deny he’s a smooth mover for that height

 

[new breed]

Any reasons for them tipping him to struggle? Or was it just visceral bs?

Trade would have gone down with Sumich. It would be in his best interests to have more mature A grade talent.

Lee Spurr would have played against Kelly in the WAFL and Suma would know him through SF .

Kelly is an Eagle now just hoping he plays his part I'm not expecting all the hype that was coming out of Melbourne especially around the trade period time last year .

 

[Chris_6678]

Redden to tag if we need to go that option during a game. Capable enough.

 

[Keys]

I think what we can take from that hit out is that hutchings is still clearly entrenched in our best team!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Not so sure on that

He’s behind all 6 of Shuey, Yeo, Kelly, Gaff, Redden and Sheed for a midfield spot. If we play an extra mid then he’s competing with Brander for that final spot.

If we play an extra mid then that only leaves 4 small/medium forward spots. Cripps and Ryan are locks leaving Petruccelle, Cameron and Waterman fighting for two spots with Waterman the most likely to miss

In my mind, there’s one spot left for a mid/forward and it’s a choice between Brander, Waterman and Hutchings. They each bring something different so it’ll depend on how they want to structure up as to which of the three gets selected.

My moneys on Brander

 

[kerr87]

2 late first and 2 early/mid second rounders is a high price.

Kelly offers so much value to our team, I am not sure I can agree with the "too high a price label".

He still has 5-6 years of Elite football ahead of him, and with our KPP stocks look good, addition of Kelly extends our premiership window.
He adds quality and depth to our midfield immediately and in to the medium-term future. When you project beyond 2021 and look at our 25 and unders, mids is the biggest area of concern. Given he is yet to turn 26, his addition to the team allays the "cliff" we were facing when Shuey/Redden/Gaff retire (or leave to play for North Melbourne ).

With the introduction of Free Agency and player's more open to moving clubs, I think you will see clubs relying less on the draft in the future. Draft picks aren't the be all end all that they once were.



Cooper Stephens debuted last night and didn't impress many on the Geelol board.

Word on him is he is a hardworking players with a lower ceiling than many other first rounders.

So far so good.

Agree. While we gave up a lot of picks, they werent high end picks, and it was no superdraft.

To be fair Geelong should have received a Top 10 pick + Mid teen first for Kelly at least. To get him for 2x late first rounders and some 2nd/3rd round picks was a steal.

 

[RanaNaved]

Lee Spurr would have played against Kelly in the WAFL and Suma would know him through SF .

Kelly is an Eagle now just hoping he plays his part I'm not expecting all the hype that was coming out of Melbourne especially around the trade period time last year .

Yes I'm aware they know who he is.

 

[Cuzz09]

Spurr... pffft

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Vargo hoat]

Not so sure on that

He’s behind all 6 of Shuey, Yeo, Kelly, Gaff, Redden and Sheed for a midfield spot. If we play an extra mid then he’s competing with Brander for that final spot.

If we play an extra mid then that only leaves 4 small/medium forward spots. Cripps and Ryan are locks leaving Petruccelle, Cameron and Waterman fighting for two spots with Waterman the most likely to miss

In my mind, there’s one spot left for a mid/forward and it’s a choice between Brander, Waterman and Hutchings. They each bring something different so it’ll depend on how they want to structure up as to which of the three gets selected.

My moneys on Brander

There is also O Allen to consider for a place in R1, if not, the best 22 when fit.

I would say Waterman is as much as a chance as the other forwards fighting for a spot. If we work on continuing on from last year, Waterman was considered best 22 available in the last 8 games, including both finals. The others weren’t (Petch got a late call up after Rioli was unavailable.)

Throughout the year I can see those 4 players, as well as Brander and Williams in and out of the team as forwards, or part time forwards/mids/rucks.

Based on WAFL form, Waterman has shown the most out of all to be dominant in that league, averaged 3.5 goals per game in the WAFL last year, if he can maintain or improve on that (As expected from a 21 year old key fwd)

I’m hoping by year-end that at least one of these players have stamped themselves into the best 22.

 

[kerr87]

There is also O Allen to consider for a place in R1, if not, the best 22 when fit.

I would say Waterman is as much as a chance as the other forwards fighting for a spot. If we work on continuing on from last year, Waterman was considered best 22 available in the last 8 games, including both finals. The others weren’t (Petch got a late call up after Rioli was unavailable.)

Throughout the year I can see those 4 players, as well as Brander and Williams in and out of the team as forwards, or part time forwards/mids/rucks.

Based on WAFL form, Waterman has shown the most out of all to be dominant in that league, averaged 3.5 goals per game in the WAFL last year, if he can maintain or improve on that (As expected from a 21 year old key fwd)

I’m hoping by year-end that at least one of these players have stamped themselves into the best 22.

Love that our young talls are so talented.

Need our young mids to put just as much pressure on the 22.

XON is the only young mid I'm confident in. The rest are not talented.

 

[Capriati]

There is also O Allen to consider for a place in R1, if not, the best 22 when fit.

I would say Waterman is as much as a chance as the other forwards fighting for a spot. If we work on continuing on from last year, Waterman was considered best 22 available in the last 8 games, including both finals. The others weren’t (Petch got a late call up after Rioli was unavailable.)

Throughout the year I can see those 4 players, as well as Brander and Williams in and out of the team as forwards, or part time forwards/mids/rucks.

Based on WAFL form, Waterman has shown the most out of all to be dominant in that league, averaged 3.5 goals per game in the WAFL last year, if he can maintain or improve on that (As expected from a 21 year old key fwd)

I’m hoping by year-end that at least one of these players have stamped themselves into the best 22.

If best 22 are all fit and available, I am not entirely sure there is room for Oscar.

Simmo appeared less than keen to have Oscar as a 2nd ruck option for NicNat, which leaves one of Hickey/Williams/Vardy as 2nd ruck/resting forward.

I can't see a forward line with JK/JD/2nd Ruck+Oscar Allen. It's just too tall.

I think Oscar might be relegated to emergency in case we need him either down back or up forward if one of our KPP miss a game.

In terms of Brander, he has been developed as a wingman since the middle of last year, only interrupted due to his hamstring issues.

Eventually, Branders development will result in Hutchings being pushed out of the team, it is just a case of when.

 

[kerr87]

If best 22 are all fit and available, I am not entirely sure there is room for Oscar.

Simmo appeared less than keen to have Oscar as a 2nd ruck option for NicNat, which leaves one of Hickey/Williams/Vardy as 2nd ruck/resting forward.

I can't see a forward line with JK/JD/2nd Ruck+Oscar Allen. It's just too tall.

I think Oscar might be relegated to emergency in case we need him either down back or up forward if one of our KPP miss a game.

Surely we learnt last year that we played too tall and other teams ran us off our feet.

Talls may work when conditions are perfect but we got burnt too often.

 

[Vargo hoat]

If best 22 are all fit and available, I am not entirely sure there is room for Oscar.

Simmo appeared less than keen to have Oscar as a 2nd ruck option for NicNat, which leaves one of Hickey/Williams/Vardy as 2nd ruck/resting forward.

I can't see a forward line with JK/JD/2nd Ruck+Oscar Allen. It's just too tall.

I think Oscar might be relegated to emergency in case we need him either down back or up forward if one of our KPP miss a game.

Allen is an unusual case compared to the others. While Simmo has mentioned he doesn’t want Allen backing up NN, he has also mentioned that he is too talented to be playing WAFL and that MC will find a place for him. He didn’t play any WAFL last year, but from memory he was the left-over emergency a couple of times.

He also played a number of games backing up Hickey as a second ruck, but Hickey can play a greater percentage of game time then our number 1 ruck, resulting in Allen’s lack of ruck size and experience being less of an issue when NN isn’t playing.

A lot of the forward line make up will depend on
1. NN staying healthy (High chance of being rested multiple times during the season.)
2. A secondary ruckman of either Hickey, Vardy, or Williams being effective enough to justify their inclusion in the team over an undersized back up. This didn’t occur last year. Hickey and Vardy have had interrupted pre seasons and Williams is untested at AFL.

To further complicate the Allen dilemma, he also has had an interrupted preseason. Waterman, Petch, Cameron, Brander, & Williams have pretty well managed most of it. One would assume others fighting for similar spots would be able to run out games better at the start of the season.

 

[mattyc75]

To be fair, Hutchings wasn't really featuring in the highlights, it was really to showcase Nicnat and sheed2brander2kelly2gaff2kelly2goal.

Simmo has been bullish about TK not necessarily pushing anyone out, and I think he really values the role of a tagger in a team. With #Brandertothewing becoming more and more likely, I don't understand how we fit them all in the midfield even if we do have Sheed and Kelly rotating through forward line. It's a lazy analysis but getting rid of the tagger role appears the obvious choice.

Definitely could be hutchings on the outer,him and redden seem logical but with the added ball winning of kelly I'd like hutchings in over redden.might be an unpopular opinion but i dont mind having someone you can put on the best opposition mid especially if they are running amok

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Capriati]

Allen is an unusual case compared to the others. While Simmo has mentioned he doesn’t want Allen backing up NN, he has also mentioned that he is too talented to be playing WAFL and that MC will find a place for him. He didn’t play any WAFL last year, but from memory he was the left-over emergency a couple of times.

He also played a number of games backing up Hickey as a second ruck, but Hickey can play a greater percentage of game time then our number 1 ruck, resulting in Allen’s lack of ruck size and experience being less of an issue when NN isn’t playing.

A lot of the forward line make up will depend on
1. NN staying healthy (High chance of being rested multiple times during the season.)
2. A secondary ruckman of either Hickey, Vardy, or Williams being effective enough to justify their inclusion in the team over an undersized back up. This didn’t occur last year. Hickey and Vardy have had interrupted pre seasons and Williams is untested at AFL.

To further complicate the Allen dilemma, he also has had an interrupted preseason. Waterman, Petch, Cameron, Brander, & Williams have pretty well managed most of it. One would assume others fighting for similar spots would be able to run out games better at the start of the season.

Hickey needs to show more up forward in order to remain in the team as 2nd ruck. He will be rucking less in 2020 and was at time gangly and awkward up forward.

Vardy needs to arrest his decline in form. If he gets back to 2018 form he would be favoured for 2nd ruck.

Williams is an unknown quantity at AFL level and no one really knows if he is ready or not for inclusion in the team.

Here is Simmo's interview that you reference.

"Will you be a two-ruck team this year?
That will depend on Nic. He has completed a lot of the pre-season and hasn’t had too many missed seasons. He still won’t be able to ruck 110 minutes of footy. Often without Nic we have played two rucks but that second ruck has got to be able to play forward.

This is one of the riddles with Oscar Allen isn’t it because he played that role at times last year?
He was second-ruck to Hickey for a big part of the year and Tom Hickey is a 110-minute ruckman so Oscar had to handle 25 to 30 minutes in the ruck and plus he had to play forward and for a 20-year-old that was a big ask. I don’t know if he can sustain a full year doing that and that was with a ruckman who rucked 100 minutes. Nic will ruck for 85 minutes. To have Nic and Oscar working together we would have to really elevate Oscar’s ability to play a full game. That will come but it will take a while to get that continuity and ruck craft. I haven’t got an answer for that yet. We are still working on it."

Simmo implies that if Nic Nat is fit and rucking 85 minutes we may not go with a dedicated 2nd ruck. It sounds almost like they are considering splitting 2nd ruck between Oscar and JD, on the proviso that Williams needs more time in the WAFL.

 

[Vargo hoat]

Hickey needs to show more up forward in order to remain in the team as 2nd ruck. He will be rucking less in 2020 and was at time gangly and awkward up forward.

Vardy needs to arrest his decline in form. If he gets back to 2018 form he would be favoured for 2nd ruck.

Williams is an unknown quantity at AFL level and no one really knows if he is ready or not for inclusion in the team.

Here is Simmo's interview that you reference.

"Will you be a two-ruck team this year?
That will depend on Nic. He has completed a lot of the pre-season and hasn’t had too many missed seasons. He still won’t be able to ruck 110 minutes of footy. Often without Nic we have played two rucks but that second ruck has got to be able to play forward.

This is one of the riddles with Oscar Allen isn’t it because he played that role at times last year?
He was second-ruck to Hickey for a big part of the year and Tom Hickey is a 110-minute ruckman so Oscar had to handle 25 to 30 minutes in the ruck and plus he had to play forward and for a 20-year-old that was a big ask. I don’t know if he can sustain a full year doing that and that was with a ruckman who rucked 100 minutes. Nic will ruck for 85 minutes. To have Nic and Oscar working together we would have to really elevate Oscar’s ability to play a full game. That will come but it will take a while to get that continuity and ruck craft. I haven’t got an answer for that yet. We are still working on it."

Simmo implies that if Nic Nat is fit and rucking 85 minutes we may not go with a dedicated 2nd ruck. It sounds almost like they are considering splitting 2nd ruck between Oscar and JD, on the proviso that Williams needs more time in the WAFL.

I agree with your assessment on the 3 back up ruckman. I’m hopeful Williams gets first crack in Rd 1 on the basis that
- Unlike Hickey & Vardy (And Allen) Williams has completed a full preseason.
- While Williams is very young by AFL ruckman standards, he has a big body and I’m hopeful his development can be fast-tracked. Nic Nat is 30 this year, Vardy & Hickey are 29. NN and Vardy in particular are very injury prone and 1 serious injury could spell trouble for their career.

Come the business end of the season, if all players are healthy, I suspect the Allen/Darling backup combo will be what they go with. I believe this is the best option to challenge for a flag.

 

[TY24]

Simmo implies that if Nic Nat is fit and rucking 85 minutes we may not go with a dedicated 2nd ruck. It sounds almost like they are considering splitting 2nd ruck between Oscar and JD, on the proviso that Williams needs more time in the WAFL.

JD impressed me when he did the F50 ruck work towards the end of the season, I'd have no qualms with him taking on that role. He seemed pretty adept at taking it straight out of the ruck and turning it into a score as well.

 

[RookiePick]

Folks definitely sleeping on Jake the Snake.

He's not sexy but he gets it done.

 

[WCErevival]

Someone is going to miss out. We cant play them all.

Waterman and Hutchings would be the 2 likely to be pushed out.