Banter 2020-2021 Offseason offtopic chat thread

[Cattery]

I would imagine dealing with such upright and honourable citizens may slightly affect the way those cops see the world.

Nobody forces them to become police, when they join they're there to uphold the law, not assault people as they see fit.

 

[Cattery]

5. Does it prove that there is systemic racism? No, as that's a very broad generalisation, and the numbers don't seem to back it up. More whites are killed by police officers than blacks every year.

On raw numbers that's correct, but on per head of population blacks are around two and a half times more likely to be killed by police then whites.

in 2019, twenty four percent of all police killings were of black Americans, who make up just thirteen percent of the population.

 

[Partridge]

On raw numbers that's correct, but on per head of population blacks are around two and a half times more likely to be killed by police then whites.

in 2019, twenty four percent of all police killings were of black Americans, who make up just thirteen percent of the population.

It goes even deeper though. Then you have to ask what percentage of crime is committed by that thirteen percent.

 

[you pick one]

Nobody forces them to become police, when they join they're there to uphold the law, not assault people as they see fit.

And every minute they are being ****ed around by dickheads like we seen the other day they are not able to do that job.

 

[Johnny Cattery]

Cemeteries are full of coppers who failed to take control while they had the upper hand.

The FBI reports that in 2018 106 police officers died on the job in the United States: 55 were 'feloniously killed', while 51 died in accidents.

"Meanwhile, in 2018, there were 996 fatal police shootings, and in 2019 this figure increased to 1,004." So there are roughly 20 citizens being killed by police officers for every police officer that dies.

Not sure most countries that called themselves democracies would tolerate that level of homicide, then again, not many democracies regard the right to show off your machine gun on the steps of parliament as evidence of freedom.

As it happens, large numbers of white and Hispanic people are killed by police; but African Americans are killed disproportionately. The riots are not a reaction to a single death: they're a reaction to a pattern (and of course the violence is being spurred on by agitators on both sides with a whole range of other agendas, from nicking stuff to supporting Trump). The peaceful demonstrations aren't getting anything like the same level of coverage.

 

[Johnny Cattery]

It goes even deeper though. Then you have to ask what percentage of crime is committed by that thirteen percent.

What percentage of crime is committed, or what percentage of people are arrested for crimes? Two different things ...
Same in Australia. Public drunkenness is a huge lark when it's the races or Australia day, but not when it's in the N.T.

 

[dazbroncos]

And if the kid had snatched his gun in the process of being handcuffed and shot someone that same officer would be asked why he never subdued the offender.IE taken him to ground, notice one female officer quickly immobilizes the legs the other observes the offender from face on, they were doing things by the book, professionally, the question of was it undue force is yet to be resolved.

he be the first one and better than Copperfield and Houdini to produce a weapon and snatch his gun with his hands in the submission posiition behind his back.
But hey, if thats what you want to invent to justify the act... go for it. More power to you.

Oh .. and the facts were.. no gun, no one shot. Handswere behind his back to be cuffed.
In this case which you seem to want to either stray from or introduce "what ifs" into... its still completely unjustified.

GO Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

I think like a lot of things with Trump, he can, but just can't be bothered.

or comprehend.

GO Catters

 

[cats_09]

3. Will he see justice? Most likely. The Australian woman killed in 2016 was shot in the same city, and he got 12 years. Strangely that didn't result in protests.

Actually, after the shooting death of Justine Damond in 2017 there were protests in Minneapolis:

The chief of police in Minneapolis has resigned at the request of the city’s mayor, Betsy Hodges, after Hodges said she had “lost the confidence of the people”.

Janeé Harteau (chief of police) has faced criticism for her handling of the shooting of unarmed Australian woman Justine Damond, as well as previous killings going back to 2013.

“I’ve lost confidence in the chief’s ability to lead us further,” said Hodges in a media statement. “And from the many conversations I’ve had with people around our city, it is clear that she has lost the confidence of the people of Minneapolis as well. For us to continue to transform policing ... we need new leadership at [Minneapolis Police Department].

Hodges’ own media conference later on Friday evening quickly descended into chaos as protesters angrily called for the mayor to resign as well, saying they “had been terrorized enough”. The crowd – a coalition of community groups pushing for police reform – drowned out her comments with chants of “Bye bye Betsy.”

There were also protests in Minneapolis after the shooting death of Philando Castile who had been pulled over for a traffic stop in 2013

Reading & watching various things, there seems to have been a bit of unrest between Minneapolis citizens and the Minneapolis police over at least the past decade - so when there's been unjust police actions, regardless of the colour or nationality of the victim, Minneapolis citizens have protested to have their voices heard

Minneapolis protests as police chief quits over Justine Damond shooting | Justine Damond shooting | The Guardian

Janeé Harteau has ‘lost the confidence of the people’ says mayor Betsy Hodges, who in turn faces calls to resign at chaotic media conference

www.google.com.au

 

[Cataholic]

On raw numbers that's correct, but on per head of population blacks are around two and a half times more likely to be killed by police then whites.

in 2019, twenty four percent of all police killings were of black Americans, who make up just thirteen percent of the population.

So, in 2019, 76% of those killed by the police weren't black americans?

 

[dazbroncos]

This is where real life gets messy and isn't perfect.

Was that the same Governor who ordered Covid patients into nursing homes? With the result of 5,800 deaths in New York nursing homes? See what I mean, there is no perfect leader. Not Cuomo, and not Jacinda "I hug therefore I am" Ardern. Notice how Morrison never gets mentioned in competent handling of it even Australia has done at least as well as New Zealand? Interesting.

As usual, a lot of things can be true at the same time:

1. Was the cop who committed the crime a complete piece of crap? Yep sure looks like it. Long list of prior complaints too.
2. Was the local police department slack about disciplining someone like him? Quite possible.
3. Will he see justice? Most likely. The Australian woman killed in 2016 was shot in the same city, and he got 12 years. Strangely that didn't result in protests.
4. Was that Trump's fault? Only if you have the intelligence of mouldy cheese.
5. Does it prove that there is systemic racism? No, as that's a very broad generalisation, and the numbers don't seem to back it up. More whites are killed by police officers than blacks every year.
6. Were the protests justified? When they are peaceful, absolutely. That's their right. When the lunatic element decided to start torching buildings and assaulting people they lost the moral high ground though.
7. Have the police been overlly excessive since? Sometimes no doubt. They'd also happily point to people getting lives destroyed by the rioters and looters. A particular favourite was a white woman I saw getting beaten up - with a plank of wood - by a gang. She may think the odd policeman around isn't a bad thing now.

The initial incident for sure warranted action and condemnation, but destruction of cities, no thanks.

Not sure where i suggested that city destruction was warrented or an apporpriate repsonse. Please quote my section where I posted that.

I picked 2 two people at your behest for names. Arden as one who, like, Cuomo, backed science to guide them but also were the first to admit they had no play book for this, took it seriously and were human in their presentation but took action and stuck by it - ie leading.

Far from perfect - it does not exist.

GO Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

I would imagine dealing with such upright and honourable citizens may slightly affect the way those cops see the world.

Totally agree - not disputing their expereinces at all - as I posted early... they deal with total s**t. No arguements there.
And each case is different. No arguments there either. This one however, was a lippy kid that had turned and submitted. Hand behind the back.
Then he was tripped and face planted.

Or are you suggesting that each type of case be treated the same way because they have dealt with such upright and honourable citizens before?

Go Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

Actually, after the shooting death of Justine Damond in 2017 there were protests in Minneapolis:



There were also protests in Minneapolis after the shooting death of Philando Castile who had been pulled over for a traffic stop in 2013

Reading & watching various things, there seems to have been a bit of unrest between Minneapolis citizens and the Minneapolis police over at least the past decade - so when there's been unjust police actions, regardless of the colour or nationality of the victim, Minneapolis citizens have protested to have their voices heard

Minneapolis protests as police chief quits over Justine Damond shooting | Justine Damond shooting | The Guardian

Janeé Harteau has ‘lost the confidence of the people’ says mayor Betsy Hodges, who in turn faces calls to resign at chaotic media conference

www.google.com.au

They are excellent points. It's obvious there were major problems and absolutely nothing meaningful was done.
The people turning it all back on the protesters don't get this.
Something was seriously wrong and really needed to change, all the peaceful protests and lame hashtags on Twitter did f**k all.
What a surprise!
People finally snap and guess what????
People had enough. No more f**king around.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Mine was the black dude who came out to protect the pawn shop he worked at, and was killed by looters.

Retired St. Louis City police captain murdered outside Lee’s Pawn and Jewelry

ST. LOUIS – A man who was shot and killed outside a north St. Louis pawn shop Tuesday morning was identified as retired St. Louis City Police captain David Dorn, according to the St. Louis Me…

fox2now.com

Everyone has to be very hush-hush about the whole black-on-black violence thing, though.

No they don't. It's right there. You just quoted it.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

On raw numbers that's correct, but on per head of population blacks are around two and a half times more likely to be killed by police then whites.

in 2019, twenty four percent of all police killings were of black Americans, who make up just thirteen percent of the population.

And are responsible for more than 50% of murder cases in the US.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

No they don't. It's right there. You just quoted it.

Why aren't they rioting about it then?

 

[Spazz Cat]

Why aren't they rioting about it then?

Gee I don't know. I suppose violence against Pawn Shop brokers has not reached boiling point yet.
Or you could be right and all this black on black crime is hushed up.
Those South Central gangster movies from the 90's I loved so much as a kid and all those Ice Cube songs etc must not have been released over there.
No market for it I guess.

 

[FredLeDeux]

It goes even deeper though. Then you have to ask what percentage of crime is committed by that thirteen percent.

Unarmed black men are 3.5 times as likely to be shot by police as are unarmed white men.

There is no relationship between racial bias in police shootings in a particular area and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates); the racial bias in police shootings is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634878/

 

[cats_09]

Woohoo - welcome to June, and the next stage in Jumanji 2020: battle of the asteroids

A potentially hazardous asteroid the size of a football stadium is set to pass Earth this weekend, one of five asteroids to approach Earth in the coming days.

US space agency NASA keeps track of asteroids in space, including ones that are within 7.5 million kilometres of Earth.
Any object over 150m wide which approaches Earth within that distance, almost 20 times the distance to the moon, is deemed as potentially hazardous.

 

[Johnny Cattery]

Woohoo - welcome to June, and the next stage in Jumanji 2020: battle of the asteroids

A potentially hazardous asteroid the size of a football stadium is set to pass Earth this weekend, one of five asteroids to approach Earth in the coming days.

US space agency NASA keeps track of asteroids in space, including ones that are within 7.5 million kilometres of Earth.
Any object over 150m wide which approaches Earth within that distance, almost 20 times the distance to the moon, is deemed as potentially hazardous.

Hey 09, as a Mod, could you set up a sweep on it hitting: a) the White House b) the headquarters of Rio Tinto or c) Hawthorn. Failing that, Josh Jenkins. Nearest the pin gets a fourth row seat at training.

 

[Cataholic]

Hey 09, as a Mod, could you set up a sweep on it hitting: a) the White House b) the headquarters of Rio Tinto or c) Hawthorn. Failing that, Josh Jenkins. Nearest the pin gets a fourth row seat at training.

Hawthorn please.......pretty please?

 

[BotsMaster]

Has anyone here had experience with the US police in the past?

 

[Down at K Park]

Unarmed black men are 3.5 times as likely to be shot by police as are unarmed white men.

There is no relationship between racial bias in police shootings in a particular area and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates); the racial bias in police shootings is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634878/

And white police officers are 18 and half times more likely to die at the hands of a black criminal, than the other way round.

 

[cats_09]

Has anyone here had experience with the US police in the past?

I had to deal with the Anchorage police via phone to report my iPhone stolen, as I needed a police report to claim it on my travel insurance. I didn't end up getting the police report for various reasons - I was leaving Anchorage so was unable to go in person, they don't send them electronically & wasn't worth the cost of paying for snail mail

I was stopped by immigration officials at Detroit land border crossing - that was intimidating, especially as a 22 year old who was 1 week into their first solo overseas trip

I've witnessed their actions in New Orleans on new years - stupid idiots throwing crackers in front of the police horses

While in New York on new years day, the police had mega crazy guns in areas around Times Square - they were just standing beside their vehicles, keeping an eye on things, but with how they were armed, I wouldn't have wanted to mess with them

I've always just tried to behave when I've been in the States, so haven't really had to many direct interactions with them

 

[Spazz Cat]

Has anyone here had experience with the US police in the past?

Nah I'm white.