Play Nice 2019-2022 CBA Discussion

[The_Wookie]

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

Disgruntled AFLW players have engaged a top workers’ rights law firm as the pay and conditions dispute escalates.

Maurice Blackburn has confirmed it is representing a block of female footballers deeply dissatisfied by the AFL Players’ Association’s handling of collective bargaining negotiations with the AFL.

The dissident group, which includes some of the biggest names in the women’s game, informed the player union in writing on Wednesday it was ”not in a position to recommend the current CBA”.

If the feud is not resolved fairly, a complaint could be lodged with the Australian Human Rights Commission.

Look Ive been a strong supporter of womens footy up til this point. Theres some entitlement and expectation here that just doesnt sit well with me.

 

[Biggie]

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

Look Ive been a strong supporter of womens footy up til this point. Theres some entitlement and expectation here that just doesnt sit well with me.

Hmm

What is the sticking point here

 

[The_Wookie]

Hmm

What is the sticking point here

Pay rises arent enough - they want 5% every year, and they want a 13 game season by 2022.

But leaked emails reveal the breakaway group disputes the AFLPA’s claims of a 21 per cent pay rise next season, insisting it is only 7 per cent “based on hourly rates” with zero increases for season 2021.

“We want an agreement that sets out clear, fair and reasonable base rate of pay increase, year on year,” one email sent to AFLPA boss Paul Marsh said.

“A 5 per cent increase plus inflation year on year is fair and reasonable.

“In the life of this CBA, we want to achieve nine regular season games in 2020, 11 regular season games in 2021 and 13 in 2022.”

 

[Starburns_]

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

Look Ive been a strong supporter of womens footy up til this point. Theres some entitlement and expectation here that just doesnt sit well with me.

This won't end well for them. The AFL need only point at the figures and how much the league is subsidised, it's not as though they've hidden away a substantial profit generated from it. The lack of games is due to the limited funds available and the need to pay an hourly rate that is equal to that of a rookie listed male player. I'd love to know where they expect this money to come from?

Will be interesting to see whether the whole playing group strikes or only a portion. If enough of them do, they could end up killing the league for themselves, which would be amusingly sad.

 

[Biggie]

Pay rises arent enough - they want 5% every year, and they want a 13 game season by 2022.

Thanks mate.

Will be interesting to see whether the whole playing group strikes or only a portion. If enough of them do, they could end up killing the league for themselves, which would be amusingly sad.

Hopefully it won’t get that far.

I’m heavily involved with the girls at junior level here ,Yr 8 & 9 and there are some very good footballers coming through. They see this as a career path. I’d hate to see it all come crashing down.

Fingers crossed there’s a fair resolution inbound for all

 

[Starburns_]

Hopefully it won’t get that far.

I’m heavily involved with the girls at junior level here ,Yr 8 & 9 and there are some very good footballers coming through. They see this as a career path. I’d hate to see it all come crashing down.

Fingers crossed there’s a fair resolution inbound for all

I think most would be surprised if it got that far, but it's looking more likely now.

There's a significant amount of self-interest within the current playing ranks with rejecting what is still a fairly progressive deal. I suspect those year 8s and 9s you mention are the reason for it, turnover is only going to increase as more young girls set their sights on it and come in better prepared to succeed. Many of the current players know they don't have much time left in the league to get paid.

 

[Tandy]

I think some players might be getting a bit greedy knowing their longevity in the game.

 

[Biggie]

I think some players might be getting a bit greedy knowing their longevity in the game.

Fair comment this.

Disappointing, but $$ rule everything in the end

 

[Starburns_]

I think some players might be getting a bit greedy knowing their longevity in the game.

It's most likely this. The marquee players who are currently well paid and likely to have lengthier careers (plus profiles they can potentially monetise) have generally been disputing that there's disharmony, so the rumbling must be coming from below.

 

[Teen Wolf]

The AFLPA said those represented by Maurice Blackburn were small in number and not representative of the broader playing group.

Most players strongly supported the proposed deal, the union said.

So Paul Marsh is either lying through his teeth, or claims of an escalating dispute and an entitled playing group are a complete overreaction.

 

[NoobPie]

So Paul Marsh is either lying through his teeth, or claims of an escalating dispute and an entitled playing group are a complete overreaction.

I would strongly suggest the latter given how blatantly unsustainable a "lying through teeth" strategy would be

Given its true the minority clearly don't get the concept of unionism

 

[jatz14]

My suspicion is that the radical feminists have got into the ear of a few. They want everything now. I think most of the calmer heads see that this is a journey, and the league is still at the start. I suspect (hope), that the majority side with players like Daisy and Chloe Malloy, and outvote the minority. This may still see legal proceedings happening, but if the majority have voted for the deal, I dont see legal proceedings holding things up.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Woman's league earns no money, runs at a significant loss. Crowds don't pay admittance, its does not rate.

The only way they can get a pay rise is to be subsidized by the men.

Its an unsustanable business model, there is no way the men are going to take less. AFL is reaping what it has sown, go woke, go broke.

 

[Micksy]

Pay rises arent enough - they want 5% every year.

On top of inflation. So effectively 7%+.

The 22 game thing I have no real issue with, besides logistical problems (getting grounds, paying staff & security)

 

[NimFromSudan]

Good on those fighting for meaningful base wage increases and a future vision of increasing games. The AFLPA are acting as complete pushovers to the league right now. The "be grateful" approach is the worst.

 

[The_Wookie]

Good on those fighting for meaningful base wage increases and a future vision of increasing games. The AFLPA are acting as complete pushovers to the league right now. The "be grateful" approach is the worst.

Its not so much a "be grateful" thing, as a "be realistic" thing. The money isnt there yet for what they have now - and the longer the season, the more money you need.

AFLW is still very much a development competition. It will keep doing so until all the AFL teams have a womens side, and all states have sustainable second tiers.

 

[Gigantor]

Its not so much a "be grateful" thing, as a "be realistic" thing. T

I'd say it's a bit of both. A bit of tension in the debate is healthy.

In the long run, the women are worth every cent, plus some.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

My suspicion is that the radical feminists have got into the ear of a few. They want everything now. I think most of the calmer heads see that this is a journey, and the league is still at the start. I suspect (hope), that the majority side with players like Daisy and Chloe Malloy, and outvote the minority. This may still see legal proceedings happening, but if the majority have voted for the deal, I dont see legal proceedings holding things up.

I work in women’s footy and unfortunately I do see a lot of older women who are behind the scenes with the attitude that the men’s players should just give up more of their own pay to fund the female players wages, despite the fact that the men’s league basically funds their whole operation to the tune of millions of dollars per year already. I find this attitude of entitlement alarming and offputting to be honest.

 

[Biggie]

I work in women’s footy and unfortunately I do see a lot of older women who are behind the scenes with the attitude that the men’s players should just give up more of their own pay to fund the female players wages, despite the fact that the men’s league basically funds their whole operation to the tune of millions of dollars per year already. I find this attitude of entitlement alarming and offputting to be honest.

Very disheartening to hear.

 

[NimFromSudan]

Its not so much a "be grateful" thing, as a "be realistic" thing. The money isnt there yet for what they have now - and the longer the season, the more money you need.

AFLW is still very much a development competition. It will keep doing so until all the AFL teams have a womens side, and all states have sustainable second tiers.

The money has never been there. If we're having a debate centred around revenue=pay then the AFLW players should be earning next to nothing. The reality is their value is being underrated because the true value comes in junior participation growth.

The thing that really gets me though is the idea that the players have to be patient, when at the same time, the league refuses to publish a meaningful future plan and the current prospects for growth include one additional game in three seasons' time.

The league are playing safe with their vision and the AFLPA, which is and will forever be biased towards the men, are rolling over on this.

 

[Bostonian]

Women playing, some representing Sth Melb., at Lakeside Oval in 1947, in front of a good crowd. Probably, the sole surviving, earliest, moving footage of a women's game.

AF has always attracted the highest % of female spectators, of any football code, in the world. What might have happened, if we, previously, had enlightened administrators?

From 2 min. mark to 4 min. mark, Debbie Lee & Sam Lane discuss the strong prejudice that existed, sadly, against females playing AF until recent years.

Enjoy.

Historic Clip Of Women's Match Unveiled - World Footy News

www.worldfootynews.com

Women's sports took a big hit after WW2. Was a different landscape before that as it was actually growing.

After so many lives were lost during the war re-population was needed in large numbers. That's why the 50's was such a nuclear family style decade. Changed a lot of things the war.

So not just about enlightened administrators. It was a societal shift because of a catastrophic event the nation experienced.

 

[The_Wookie]

The money has never been there. If we're having a debate centred around revenue=pay then the AFLW players should be earning next to nothing. The reality is their value is being underrated because the true value comes in junior participation growth.

Which generates the AFL little in the way of money. Especially now. And this is why I say AFLW is currently about promotion and development more than being a professional competition.

The thing that really gets me though is the idea that the players have to be patient, when at the same time, the league refuses to publish a meaningful future plan and the current prospects for growth include one additional game in three seasons' time.

The league are playing safe with a competition they werent even going to launch before 2020??? Its their money - and theyve said all along that the competition was dependent on how the talent numbers developed. Thats hard to put a firm date on.

You know who else played it safe? Womens football. Werent even close to launching their own national competition.

The league are playing safe with their vision and the AFLPA, which is and will forever be biased towards the men, are rolling over on this.

The league have every right to play it safe. They are the ones who bear the cost and have to ensure the financial stability of any expansion, while continuing to ensure the financial viability of all their other pre-existing commitments to leagues, clubs and players.

 

[Bostonian]

Good on those fighting for meaningful base wage increases and a future vision of increasing games. The AFLPA are acting as complete pushovers to the league right now. The "be grateful" approach is the worst.

Many of the players are already getting paid way over the odds for their talent levels. A small % probably getting unders.

Some of the base level wage players are just such low level players. They are making out like bandits getting that kind of money for playing the game.

The quality of the game needs to rise at the bottom level before the league starts dishing out higher base level payments.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Good on those fighting for meaningful base wage increases and a future vision of increasing games. The AFLPA are acting as complete pushovers to the league right now. The "be grateful" approach is the worst.

AFLPA is looking after their biggest pay master, the AFL mens comp. Any money sacrificed to the women, is from the same pot that the men feed from. Its just simple business, you look after your biggest client.

Only way for the women to get more is to grow their own revenue lines. The AFLPA is hopelessly conflicted and probably should not be involved with the women's league.

 

[owen87]

AFLPA is looking after their biggest pay master, the AFL mens comp. Any money sacrificed to the women, is from the same pot that the men feed from. Its just simple business, you look after your biggest client.

Only way for the women to get more is to grow their own revenue lines. The AFLPA is hopelessly conflicted and probably should not be involved with the women's league.

If / when the women's league is able to generate independent revenue from the men's game then they'll have a lot more leverage and may have an argument for their own Players Association separate from the AFLPA, while it's currently so heavily tied to the current AFL tv deal, sponsors, and club funding then there's going to be fairly limited scope.

Increasing the pay per hour and the length of the season is an exponential increase in cost, not overly surprised that neither the AFLPA or AFL are getting behind it. Seems that someone like Daisy appears to be in favour of a slow build-up that allows the league itself time to grow, and so is OK with the rate of pay and length of season jumping too much whilst in it's infancy.