2019 2nd Ashes Test - Lords 14-18 August 2019

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frankrizzo said:
Archer isn't going to be that bloke always runs through you in england but when you have woakes Jimmy and broad he doesn't have to be.

Broad is the bloke who will take 5 for nothing on a greenish deck archer is the bloke who makes it happen when the game is drifting, England need both and archer will be an even bigger asset away from home.
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Jimmy is done sand Broad can’t be far behind. Archer is going to need some support if he’s to be a genuine Test player.
 

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JackOutback said:
Jimmy is done sand Broad can’t be far behind. Archer is going to need some support if he’s to be a genuine Test player.
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What makes you think Jimmy is done? He may be 37 but it's not like he's had many issues with injuries throughout his career and his record in the last few years is outstanding.
 
the_interloper said:
Warner looks badly out of sorts it’s weird, looked great in the WC. I would have had Joe Burns in the squad i stead of Harris, harsh on Harris but Burns was in good nick and I rate him.
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He got hit a few times over the Australian summer as the first thing he does when it’s short is take his eye off it and ducks
 
A Pom said:
Something of which you have absolutely no proof. How people can interpret Trescothick saying he didn't like a specific type of mints (which had been identified as the ones that had been allowing Warwickshire to get more prolonged swing than other teams in the county championship) because they were too dry as Trescothick saying he experimented with different types of mints to find the most effective at getting the ball to swing I have no idea.
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Actually, in his autobiography, he states clearly that he decided on Murray Mints through 'trial and error' and that they 'worked a treat' (pun, I assume, intended).
 
A Pom said:
What makes you think Jimmy is done? He may be 37 but it's not like he's had many issues with injuries throughout his career and his record in the last few years is outstanding.
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Very few fast bowlers play at 37; even if he goes on, we're talking a year or so at best. He's certainly not going to be around for any length of Archer's career.
 
Nankervis brothers said:
Actually, in his autobiography, he states clearly that he decided on Murray Mints through 'trial and error' and that they 'worked a treat' (pun, I assume, intended).
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"Trial and error" wasn't mentioned alongside Murray Mints at all. He said he used it in finding mints to be the best way to enhance saliva to shine the ball, have you read the stuff you're quoting?
 
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A Pom said:
"Trial and error" wasn't mentioned alongside Murray Mints at all. He said he used it in finding mints as the best way to shine the ball, have you read the stuff you're quoting?
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Good good, man, it's pretty self-evident:

'It was my job to keep the shine on the new ball for as long as possible with a bit of spit and a lot of polish - and through trial and error I finally settled on the best type of spit for the task at hand. It had been common knowledge in county cricket for some time that certain sweets produced saliva which when applied to the ball for cleaning purposes enabled it to keep its shine for longer and therefore its swing." Adding later, but in the context of the same discussion, that the best type was infused with Murray Mints: 'I had a go at Murray Mints and found they worked a treat."

Note also that the ICC responded to questions from the BBC about Trescothick's above statement with the following: "According to the laws this is illegal - but we won't outlaw sucking sweets."

But again, my original point was that it is hypocritical to celebrate Atherton (who is a ball tamperer) and Paneser or Trescothick (who are too, by the letter of the of the law), but boo Smith.

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that England don't ball tamper. As I and others have pointed out, every team has done it. That is how one gets revere swing.

Here are some players who have been sanctioned for ball tampering:
Chris Pringle (NZ)
Micheal Atherton (ENG)
Waqar Younis (PAK)
Sachin Tendulkar (IND)
Rahul Dravid (IND) And Dravid for lozenges which is basically the same thing as mints.
Faf Du Plesiss (SAF)

None of the above ran the risk of being abused in the Long Room, booed when scoring a century, or booed off the field while concussed. And that's my point (which you fail, incredibly, to comprehend); namely, that there is an absurd double standard going on when it comes to Smith.

Either address the double standard explicitly, or move on.
 

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A Pom said:
"Trial and error" wasn't mentioned alongside Murray Mints at all. He said he used it in finding mints to be the best way to enhance saliva to shine the ball, have you read the stuff you're quoting?
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Certainly enhanced the saliva ..... with the following ingredients - Sugar, Glucose syrup, hydrogenated Vegetable oil, Molasses, Salt, Flavourings, Emulsifier (Soya lecithin).

​
What Trescothick wrote
"I was firmly established as the man in charge of looking after the ball when we were fielding. It was my job to keep the shine on the new ball for as long as possible with a bit of spit and a lot of polish. And through trial and error I finally settled on the best type of spit for the task at hand. It had been common knowledge in county cricket for some time that certain sweets produced saliva which when applied to the ball for cleaning purposes enabled it to keep its shine for longer and therefore its swing.

As with most of the great scientific discoveries, this one happened quite by accident. While at Warwickshire, Dermot Reeve noticed that his bowlers somehow had the ability to keep the ball swinging far longer than any team they faced. The problem was no one knew why. He realised the player in charge of polishing and keeping the ball clean was his top-order batsman Asif Din and what he did to keep his concentration levels up was chewing extra strong mints.

It took a while for word to get around the circuit but once it did the sales of sweets near the county grounds of England went through the roof. I tried Asif¹s confection of choice but couldn¹t get on with them. Too dry. So I had a go at Murray Mints and found they worked a treat. Trouble was, even allowing for trying to keep one going as long as possible. I still used to get through about 15 a day and the taste soon palled. Once Phil Neale came on board as our operations manager it was one of his jobs to make sure the dressing-room was fully stocked at all times.

We even tried taking them on tour a couple of times until we realised that they didn¹t work as well on the Kookaburra balls used overseas as the Dukes we used back home."
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