2019 5th Ashes Test 12-17 September - The Oval

[Demons09]

I don’t get the logic of the selectors going in with Marsh I mean they’ve got it wrong so far by retaining the Ashes yeah I think I’ll back them in.

 

[Present Not Past]

I don’t get the logic of the selectors going in with Marsh I mean they’ve got it wrong so far by retaining the Ashes yeah I think I’ll back them in.

It's a defining characteristic of Australian cricket - having a Marsh brother playing for Australia.
At least this time they waiting until the series was decided before acting on it.

 

[omarlittle1]

Hmmmm. Not sure about this selection call. Expecting the worst but hoping for the best.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Forgot to post this video at the end of the last thread, those unfamiliar with it (however few that may be) ought to enjoy it before moving on to the start of play tonight:



The opening four minutes is of particular relevance to what transpired a few days ago, wherein Richie talks about the first time any leg-spinner (himself, in 1961 on the last day of the 4th Test at none other than Old Trafford) went around the wicket and bowled into the rough, consequently bailing his team out of a spot of bother.

Fwiw the 5th Test at the Oval would go on to be a draw, resulting in a 2-1 series victory to Australia.

 

[The Convert]

This is what gets me.
What is wrong with playing different players in different countries.
Our best team in Australia isn’t necessarily our best team elsewhere.

This decision was made with Doug Walters when they did not pick him for an Ashes tour after 2 failed tours. Big outcry as he was clearly still one of our beat batsmen

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[The Convert]

My issue with Marsh isn’t so much for this test, it’s that if he puts in the bare minimum decent performance then suddenly he’s in the frame again for the next lot of tests at home. And the cycle of failure continues.

Honestly it’s just s**t management of him. Given his poor recent tests, he needs at least a full season dominating the shield before he should be in consideration. I reckon even he would agree.
Remember it’s not the guys fault the selectors keep throwing him to the wolves it’s not like he’s the one demanding selection from them.

Agree
A bunch of wickets at better than 30
A pile of runs at better than 40

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[The Convert]

Marsh bashing is tiresome, he made a hundred last ashes game he played.

Selectors have had a good series, backing them in for this one. 3-1

Their choices for opening bat have been so good!

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[Balls In]

Marsh was in diabolical form in the Australian summer but no worse than, Warner, Harris, Khawaja, Bancroft or Head etc here in England. Conversely he has been one of our best during the tour games with both bat and ball. If he comes off he could come off big and its at no risk given the form of the bloke he is replacing.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Neser has had the better run than Marsh in the Shield last season. Langer has had a hardon for MMarsh for years though and is probably hoping he establishes himself in the side so he can get the captaincy after Paine.

 

[lazy77]

You just know Warner will be pushed all the way to the Australian summer. Then he scores a blistering century at home on the Hume Highway against Pakistan. Bang, all will be forgiven. Only the diehard Aussie cricket fans won't be fooled. That's what will happen.

Just stop and think about what you're saying for a second. You and many others on this board seem to have convinced yourselves that runs in Australia somehow don't matter. That 100s are easy here and players shouldn't be given credit for scoring them. I'm sorry, but that's just objectively stupid.

 

[arden station]

I had the same feeling when they dropped Moeen Ali, but it worked out okay. With Roy, I don't think I've ever seen someone who is purported to be a Test batsman leave so much room between bat and pad.

Here's a great reminder and opportunity for our selectors to learn from other countries' mistakes. Don't pick your test side based on ODI performances.

It is amazing how long they persisted with Roy for. Bairstow not as bad obviously but you always feel like he could get out - he's flakey. Buttler played pretty well in the last test but he also lacks the technique for test cricket.

Head is a touch unlucky but he's had a poor tour and there are technical and shot selection problems. That back foot slash/carve he plays through point - his weight is too far back and his head tilts backwards. Needs to be able to push up off that back foot, head balanced. Then there's the big drive he got bowled on last test - had to be defending that ball. Critical time and he's been sent a message.

All that said, Warner incredibly lucky not to be dropped too. Looks worse than anyone. Would be interesting to know his batting average outside Australia and South Africa.

 

[arden station]

Just stop and think about what you're saying for a second. You and many others on this board seem to have convinced yourselves that runs in Australia somehow don't matter. That 100s are easy here and players shouldn't be given credit for scoring them. That's just objectively stupid.

Being able to make runs in Australia is important as long as you can make them overseas too.

 

[Swanny69]

Jimmy Anderson of all people complaining England don't get help from the home pitches, fu** me ashes losses really do send the poms off the deep end.

If we got these decks in 2015 in the boof era we would have been rolled for under 100 multiple times.

To be fair to Jimmy the pitches have definitely suited us .. as they’ve had spuds like Roy and Denley standing up the end of them...

 

[iluvparis]

All that said, Warner incredibly lucky not to be dropped too. Looks worse than anyone. Would be interesting to know his batting average outside Australia and South Africa.

1984 @ 30.06, 3 hundreds, 14 50s

 

[Present Not Past]

Just stop and think about what you're saying for a second. You and many others on this board seem to have convinced yourselves that runs in Australia somehow don't matter. That 100s are easy here and players shouldn't be given credit for scoring them. I'm sorry, but that's just objectively stupid.

I don't think they are saying that they don't matter, they are saying that the conditions in Australia suit Warner better. Think about that.
You would have us believe then that our bowlers using the Kookuburra balls on hard Australian pitches would obviously bowl just as well using Dukes balls on soft English wickets. Didn't happen I'm afraid, until this series. I wonder why?

 

[burge13]

True that! I reckon Pattinson is very stiff, and Head has a technique that Broad would salivate over.

Pattinson stiff but they'll fire him up for the Aussie summer. Possibly some white ball cricket?

 

[Swanny69]

If Marsh is in purely to replace Head: Bit of a s**t call, more of a lateral move if I'm being generous but you could almost a̶c̶c̶e̶p̶t̶ tolerate it.

If Marsh is in to take strain of our fast bowlers: Why not give Head another go (i.e. the Dave Warner treatment, lord knows Head has done more than him so far this series at more important times) and rest Cummins or Hazelwood then and bring in Neser?

Feels like they've robbed Peter but forgot to pay Paul with this one.

They will want to play both Cummins and Hazlewood to bowl impact overs but not volume overs .. need 5 not 4 bowlers..

 

[to1994]

Just stop and think about what you're saying for a second. You and many others on this board seem to have convinced yourselves that runs in Australia somehow don't matter. That 100s are easy here and players shouldn't be given credit for scoring them. I'm sorry, but that's just objectively stupid.

It's not about them not mattering specifically in Australia it's about the standard of bowling. Kurtis Patterson hit a hundred against Sri Lankan bowling that was of a class lower then Shield standard. While the runs might still matter, I'd back most FC batsman with reasonable records to be able to do the same on a flat wicket which is what we get a lot of the time.

We used to have the "Test runs are Test runs" attitude which is stupid and is part of why we haven't been able to win overseas. If we had that mindset then Labuschagne might not have played the series at all and we would've stuck with Patterson and Burns, neither of which I believe would've done much better then Harris/Head etc.

This time around we've been smart about not rating those innings against Sri Lanka too highly, if it was against high quality bowling from the likes of South Africa and India (likely a reason Harris got selected pretty quickly despite Bancroft not getting a big go) that's a different story but it's about the quality of bowling, not that the hundreds were scored in Australia.

 

[OffTheBit]

 

[Seedsfan]

I don't mind the faith shown in Warner but where the hell was it for Usman? Nowhere near as lean a series and has never been granted a full overseas series to get comfortable. Ridiculous.

Look at their records and then you will work it out

 

[philreich]

Paine on Warner.

Meanwhile, Stuart Broad can't get the smile off his face. He's definitely inside Warner's head, to the extent that it was a surprise when he avoided being dismissed until the 6th delivery in the second innings at Old Trafford!!! At least give Harris the first over if we bat first tonight.

 

[lazy77]

It's not about them not mattering specifically in Australia it's about the standard of bowling. Kurtis Patterson hit a hundred against Sri Lankan bowling that was of a class lower then Shield standard. While the runs might still matter, I'd back most FC batsman with reasonable records to be able to do the same on a flat wicket which is what we get a lot of the time.

We used to have the "Test runs are Test runs" attitude which is stupid and is part of why we haven't been able to win overseas. If we had that mindset then Labuschagne might not have played the series at all and we would've stuck with Patterson and Burns, neither of which I believe would've done much better then Harris/Head etc.

This time around we've been smart about not rating those innings against Sri Lanka too highly, if it was against high quality bowling from the likes of South Africa and India (likely a reason Harris got selected pretty quickly despite Bancroft not getting a big go) that's a different story but it's about the quality of bowling, not that the hundreds were scored in Australia.

Warner has scored a number of his 21(!) 100s against good bowling attacks. If there's another opener in Australia with that many runs against any type of attacks, then I don't know about them.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So pi**ed at travis getting dropped. Wade still in but head out. Fu selectors.

Then Head shouldn’t have looked like a donkey in the last 2 tests he’s got a horrid technique

 

[Silly Mid On]

View attachment 744571

Smith was never going to choose England over Australia - he is on record saying that, had it been about money, he may have (Surrey threw, comparatively, a lot more money at him then NSW did at the time), but for Smith it was always about represnting NSW and Australia - being born and raised here, that is what he cared about.

Glad he didn't sell out. Seems to be the modus operandi of the the ECB in attracting foreign talent with dual nationality.

More information here: https://www.cricket.com.au/news/ste...y-new-zealand-australia-test-ashes/2017-10-25

 

[melanChronic]

Look at their records and then you will work it out

All I'm looking at is one guy has made one of the great test saving knocks less than a year ago, whilst the other is an even bet to make it past the first over of the innings atm.

We only need a draw at The Oval, why continue to hope Warner can hit his way out of trouble against Broad?