2019 5th Ashes Test 12-17 September - The Oval

Richard Pryor

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Less runs, worse average. Harris ended up below him on average, but before 5th test was above him therefore if you’d dropped Harris for Bancroft, you were dropping him for someone who’d been worse
Too lazy to check, but I think the difference in runs/average is negligible enough that balls faced to take the shine off the ball takes precedence. I think Bancroft had Harris covered on that going off memory.
 

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eddiesmith

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Too lazy to check, but I think the difference in runs/average is negligible enough that balls faced to take the shine off the ball takes precedence. I think Bancroft had Harris covered on that going off memory.
Do you really take the shine off by playing and missing at every ball?

I could say hitting more boundaries does more damage and Harris had Bancroft covered there...

But it’s all meaningless, they were both shit and people trying to argue Bancroft was doing his job is just hilarious
 

Tugga27

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Wade's second century, even if it was in dead time with the match long gone, probably overcomes his inconsistency to grab a spot.
Then do you give the gloves to Bairstow or Butler? For me, Bairstow, goven Engld picked him for that role.
With Smith barred from leaadership, that leaves Stokes as the probable captain. That Denly makes this team is an indictment on Australian openers, and on English selectors picking Roy on white ball form.
It's not a real side mate, so you can make Smith captain :)
 

iluvparis

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Not winning back the urn is s**t, but we'll move on, see if Australian fans still think this was a dead rubber if they miss out on the final by less than a game...
Honestly couldn't care less about the World Cup or the WTC - happy to do dogshit in both of them if it meant retaining the ashes which we did :)
 

iluvparis

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As for the combined side - you just whoever was picking it would go full All-Australian style and pick Wade as the keeper.
 

Freezin

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He made an error. From memory Lyon made an error. Paine made an error on the stupid earlier review.
Move on

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I think the frustrating thing about Wilson's error that folk find hard to move on with, is that in the circumstances of the game(2 runs to win), the closeness of the LBW contact and that Eng had a review left, was that to achieve the absolute argument ending correct decision, Wilson needed to give it out and let Eng use their review...if he was wrong, Eng keep their review and Stokes lives on...if he was right, atleast Eng had the chance to refute Wilson's decision.....atleast on review Eng, wouldn't of felt cheated as the decision would of been correct and Stokes was indeed out....unfortunately Aust didn't get that satisfaction, regardless of Paines ineptness the previous over.....hard to move on when Stokes was obviously out, not due to an Eng or Aust player stuffing up.....but the ump, when the ump had every chance to get the defining, "end all arguments" correct decision....
 

eddiesmith

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I think the frustrating thing about Wilson's error that folk find hard to move on with, is that in the circumstances of the game(2 runs to win), the closeness of the LBW contact and that Eng had a review left, was that to achieve the absolute argument ending correct decision, Wilson needed to give it out and let Eng use their review...if he was wrong, Eng keep their review and Stokes lives on...if he was right, atleast Eng had the chance to refute Wilson's decision.....atleast on review Eng, wouldn't of felt cheated as the decision would of been correct and Stokes was indeed out....unfortunately Aust didn't get that satisfaction, regardless of Paines ineptness the previous over.....hard to move on when Stokes was obviously out, not due to an Eng or Aust player stuffing up.....but the ump, when the ump had every chance to get the defining, "end all arguments" correct decision....
The problems with this argument is:

1- Umpires are graded on correct/incorrect decisions so you’re basically saying he should deliberately give what in his mind is an incorrect decision, hurt his own future prospects, solely because Australia wasted their reviews?

2- If the ball was clipping the outside of leg stump, Stokes is out and England lose on umpires call, despite the umpire never giving those out due to doubt and therefore Australia win solely because they wasted their reviews?

3- Finally, why should an umpire help out a team that consistently questioned their calls so badly they kept running out of reviews?

If Pat Cummins wasn’t blind and could actually see that ball pitched well outside leg stump, you would have still had a review! Then again, you had reviews at Lords and didn’t use it there when Hawkeye said it was out! Maybe, just maybe it’s the technology that’s flawed and not the umpire!
 

Present Not Past

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The problems with this argument is:

1- Umpires are graded on correct/incorrect decisions so you’re basically saying he should deliberately give what in his mind is an incorrect decision, hurt his own future prospects, solely because Australia wasted their reviews?

2- If the ball was clipping the outside of leg stump, Stokes is out and England lose on umpires call, despite the umpire never giving those out due to doubt and therefore Australia win solely because they wasted their reviews?

3- Finally, why should an umpire help out a team that consistently questioned their calls so badly they kept running out of reviews?

If Pat Cummins wasn’t blind and could actually see that ball pitched well outside leg stump, you would have still had a review! Then again, you had reviews at Lords and didn’t use it there when Hawkeye said it was out! Maybe, just maybe it’s the technology that’s flawed and not the umpire!
If I recall the umpire in question had already made many incorrect decisions over the course of the series so yet another one wouldn't have made things much worse for him.
The truth is the importance of the call got the better of the umpire, so he made no decision at all. He froze.
 

The Convert

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The problems with this argument is:

1- Umpires are graded on correct/incorrect decisions so you’re basically saying he should deliberately give what in his mind is an incorrect decision, hurt his own future prospects, solely because Australia wasted their reviews?

2- If the ball was clipping the outside of leg stump, Stokes is out and England lose on umpires call, despite the umpire never giving those out due to doubt and therefore Australia win solely because they wasted their reviews?

3- Finally, why should an umpire help out a team that consistently questioned their calls so badly they kept running out of reviews?

If Pat Cummins wasn’t blind and could actually see that ball pitched well outside leg stump, you would have still had a review! Then again, you had reviews at Lords and didn’t use it there when Hawkeye said it was out! Maybe, just maybe it’s the technology that’s flawed and not the umpire!
Agree mostly however from memory, and it could be flawed, several decisions were in fact made on lbws that were only hitting leg stump. Nevertheless I actually agree that the umpire should go with his belief.

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Freezin

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Just merely responding to someone's comment that people needed to move on....as much as panic and fatigue clouded Paine, Cummins and Lyons judgement....and they will have to duly wear those errors for the rest of their careers....Wilson stuffed up and had a chance to let technology save his sorry arse in the heat of a series defining moment....in the end, ashes history will show he made the incorrect decision. As for Wilson hurting his own prospects?..considering he was continually shown up for poor decision making via replay after replay up to that point.....I guess there won't be any argument to the fact Wilson won't be umpiring in an Ashes test ever again or a major series for a long long time...can see him being a regular face on the 2nd tier circuit.....
 
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DaRick

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This is incredibly pointless thinking.

Take out Stokes and we win Headingley and probably Lord's.
Also, we nearly won at Headingley without Smith.

Plus, his replacement actually underpinned both innings.

Of course Smith was a massive loss, and most likely the difference between us winning and losing that game in the end, but that line of thinking is typically very reductive because it assumes that your best batsman's runs wouldn't have been compensated for to a degree by his replacement (as happened), or even the rest of his teammates in his absence.

It's not uncommon for a side to lose a quality bowler or batsman, or for said bowler/batsman to lose form, and yet have other players stand up to at least some degree during his absence/run of outs (e.g - Clark replacing McGrath in SA 2005/06, Johnson making us forget about Pattinson/Starc during 2013/14, Smith taking over much of Clarke's run-scoring burden from 2013/14 onwards).
 

Eagleboy68

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You're making a lot of assumptions there:
Paine will be gone.
Warner will be gone.
Bowling line up will be in tact.

On the other hand England will be coming to Australia looking for redemption.
So Australia will lose a sum total of 20 runs an innings and our bowlers will grow a leg in our conditions

Not to mention our batsmen will relish our conditions

Not losing much at all, actually with 2 young players in we will be better
 

Tigerssaints

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gee some of you Mainlanders are tough taskmasters
the Ashes schedule very late in the season
A bowlers paradise
different type of Ball
No guarantee the CHEATERS would step up/ or disturb team balance
Warner still crap

Tim Paine did not asked to be captain, he and Langer did a fantastic job in getting this team up in 14 mths
No 3 day test here , with Langer/ Paine and Wade . putting value on wks including partnerships
Smith a hero . Marnus a fellow right hander ( poms not expecting him , so no game plan )
Paine was capt , Wkeeper , then batsman.
Wade scores 2 centuries , only 1 out side of Smith
a fantastic job by him and the whole touring group
remember he is captain , who retained the Ashes
 

Eagleboy68

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The problems with this argument is:

1- Umpires are graded on correct/incorrect decisions so you’re basically saying he should deliberately give what in his mind is an incorrect decision, hurt his own future prospects, solely because Australia wasted their reviews?

2- If the ball was clipping the outside of leg stump, Stokes is out and England lose on umpires call, despite the umpire never giving those out due to doubt and therefore Australia win solely because they wasted their reviews?

3- Finally, why should an umpire help out a team that consistently questioned their calls so badly they kept running out of reviews?

If Pat Cummins wasn’t blind and could actually see that ball pitched well outside leg stump, you would have still had a review! Then again, you had reviews at Lords and didn’t use it there when Hawkeye said it was out! Maybe, just maybe it’s the technology that’s flawed and not the umpire!
1. The umpire was f’ed anyway
2. Many lbw's were called out against Australia that were only clipping leg AND the top of the wickets so that's a f’ed argument. If it's shown to be clipping then it's out as a live ball clipping is going to be out right?
3. its not about umpires helping a team. It's about umpires calling what's out, out.
Review system was brought in because of poor umpiring and ******* Pakistan indian cheat umpires.
He knew that was plumb...he just froze because he knew if he called it he was basically calling it a win for Australia and because he's a useless umpire he froze on the occasion.

Regarding Cummins and reviews overall see point 3.

If umpires did their jobs correctly we wouldn't need reviews so it shouldn't come down to bad reviews.

Any other f’ed arguments you wanna try and make while most Australian supporters are gone from the thread and you think you aren't going to be picked up on them?
 

eddiesmith

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1. The umpire was f’ed anyway
2. Many lbw's were called out against Australia that were only clipping leg AND the top of the wickets so that's a f’ed argument. If it's shown to be clipping then it's out as a live ball clipping is going to be out right?
3. its not about umpires helping a team. It's about umpires calling what's out, out.
Review system was brought in because of poor umpiring and ******* Pakistan indian cheat umpires.
He knew that was plumb...he just froze because he knew if he called it he was basically calling it a win for Australia and because he's a useless umpire he froze on the occasion.

Regarding Cummins and reviews overall see point 3.

If umpires did their jobs correctly we wouldn't need reviews so it shouldn't come down to bad reviews.

Any other f’ed arguments you wanna try and make while most Australian supporters are gone from the thread and you think you aren't going to be picked up on them?
Lol, you think what you wrote is a good argument, just more deluded whingeing

The umpire didn’t think it was out, hence his not out decision...

Identical one not given in previous test, Australia with review don’t even bother reviewing yet everyone rips umpire when Hawkeye claims it’s turning square.

Also the post I replied to was suggesting the umpires do Australia a favour because they burnt their review...

Oh and it is nice the once every 4 year posters have all disappeared, cricket board can go back to normal, just a couple left it seems...
 

Eagleboy68

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Lol, you think what you wrote is a good argument, just more deluded whingeing

The umpire didn’t think it was out, hence his not out decision...

Identical one not given in previous test, Australia with review don’t even bother reviewing yet everyone rips umpire when Hawkeye claims it’s turning square.

Also the post I replied to was suggesting the umpires do Australia a favour because they burnt their review...

Oh and it is nice the once every 4 year posters have all disappeared, cricket board can go back to normal, just a couple left it seems...
And there was what? 20 others he got wrong, maybe more that got overturned.

So again, go to point 3...f’ed umpires.
He got sacked from the series remember so I wouldn't be relying on the umpires decision to help your argument.

Edit: we retain the ashes even with our f’ed batting line-up outside of smith, Wade and lab.

Keep bleating out inconsequencials it's
Funny.

Pass the cheese for your whine.?
 

eddiesmith

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And there was what? 20 others he got wrong, maybe more that got overturned.

So again, go to point 3...f’ed umpires.
He got sacked from the series remember so I wouldn't be relying on the umpires decision to help your argument.

Edit: we retain the ashes even with our f’ed batting line-up outside of smith, Wade and lab.

Keep bleating out inconsequencials it's
Funny.

Pass the cheese for your whine.?
He didn’t get sacked, they named the umpires for the five tests before the series and he was only ever doing the first three, a fact pointed out on the first day of the series...

Also lol at claiming Wade wasn’t part of the shit batting lineup, makes a hundred when the team is piling on the runs, does nothing for next 3 tests then scores a hundred when game is lost and series over, such a gun...

Australia draw the series with the no1 batsman in the world having the series of his life, celebrate it all you like! Probably some minnows to bash up this summer to make everyone look good again
 

Eagleboy68

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He didn’t get sacked, they named the umpires for the five tests before the series and he was only ever doing the first three, a fact pointed out on the first day of the series...

Also lol at claiming Wade wasn’t part of the s**t batting lineup, makes a hundred when the team is piling on the runs, does nothing for next 3 tests then scores a hundred when game is lost and series over, such a gun...

Australia draw the series with the no1 batsman in the world having the series of his life, celebrate it all you like! Probably some minnows to bash up this summer to make everyone look good again
Wade...2 centuries more than root...
 

Seedsfan

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He made an error. From memory Lyon made an error. Paine made an error on the stupid earlier review.
Move on

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But that moment will get singled out if we miss the final of the world test championship by a game.

We had our chances to win the second and fifth test as well but that will be the moment they pinpoint
 

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