Game Day 2019 AFL Draft

Aug 10, 2015
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Thanks for your reply SV, you are a great spokesperson for the club ;)
I'm sure you are accurate in what you have posted.
My thinking is the pies list is our capital, our assets. With Dunn as a rookie we are not going to grow our capital. Looking at the past, a rookie like Mal Michael grew that capital. No doubt there are marginal values in Dunn. There would be a value if Roughy went down, assuming Magden does not pass what Dunn would offer us next year, so we cover that risk but we do so with the certainty that Dunn will not increase the value of our list over the next 12 months. Yeah a premiership covers all sins but I am concerned we are heading for a 2012/3 situation where we have an overpaid list that isn't up to the task and need a rebuild. In terms of risk taking I would rather see us risk having to play Magden if Roughy went down and pick up a rookie that, with our excellent coaching environment, improved and could be part of our future currency to improve our list. I am not questioning Roughy's values outside of playing for the AFL side, more questioning whether that is what we are best using our rookie pick on at this time in our history.
If there’s one i was keen on giving a go as a rookie it was Jeka.

At least we have time to view fitness and the like.

You’ve made very fair points.

Ps I’m happy to be a spokesperson for the club but would expect payment. Until then, alas not.
 

noideaatall

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If there’s one i was keen on giving a go as a rookie it was Jeka.

At least we have time to view fitness and the like.

You’ve made very fair points.

Ps I’m happy to be a spokesperson for the club but would expect payment. Until then, alas not.
You are an excellent spokesperson. I will let Eddie know payment is due. I doubt you will be able to help yourself if he doesn't listen to me though, :)
 

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partypie

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Having said that, I really like the look of Ruscoe, he seems to have a lot to work with, looks like he'll be good with some development. It's interesting Hine spoke about him as a defensive interceptor, which he thought was a need for us. I don't see that need personally. It'll be interesting to see if that's where we develop him.
For draftees this year we're really looking ahead to what the team will look like 4-5 years from now.

Looking into the crystal ball five years from now when Howe is gone and Langdon is approaching the end (if he is still in black and white after 2020 - another story for another day) an intercept marker will potentially be a need.

eg. If Keane keeps developing the way he has been this could potentially be the backline we are transitioning to at that point:

B: Maynard Keane Kelly
HB: Quaynor Moore ???

You could slot Murphy in there, but I think he'll ultimately end up going forward. What we'd need is someone who can intercept mark and even generate a little run and carry sometimes,so perhaps the recruiting team see Ruscoe taking that final spot in the back six as an interceptor / medium defender?
 
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noideaatall

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For draftees this year we're really looking ahead to what the team will look like 4-5 years from now.
...
Why take that viewpoint? Why not look for the player we can draft now that will flourish in our system and we can then trade on 1-5 years from now to bring in an elite to fill our needs at the time? The system seems to be geared towards players as a commodity to trade in and out as they/the club desire. Are we better off trying to predict our future needs or ignore our needs and simply focus on drafting players we can best increase their trade value?
 

Kappa

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For draftees this year we're really looking ahead to what the team will look like 4-5 years from now.

Looking into the crystal ball five years from now when Howe is gone and Langdon is approaching the end (if he is still in black and white after 2020 - another story for another day) an intercept marker will potentially be a need.

eg. If Keane keeps developing the way he has been this could potentially be the backline we are transitioning to at that point:

B: Maynard Keane Kelly
HB: Quaynor Moore ???

You could slot Murphy in there, but I think he'll ultimately end up going forward. What we'd need is someone who can intercept mark and even generate a little run and carry sometimes,so perhaps the recruiting team see Ruscoe taking that final spot in the back six as an interceptor / medium defender?
Our backline 5 years ago was

Sinclair Frost Ramsay
Lumumba Keeffe Langdon.

Only 1 player has survived from then. 5 years is a ridiculously long time in Football, it's hard enough to predict what our defence will look like in 2021 !
 

Gone Critical

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Mar 11, 2007
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Thanks for your reply SV, you are a great spokesperson for the club ;)
I'm sure you are accurate in what you have posted.
My thinking is the pies list is our capital, our assets. With Dunn as a rookie we are not going to grow our capital. Looking at the past, a rookie like Mal Michael grew that capital. No doubt there are marginal values in Dunn. There would be a value if Roughy went down, assuming Magden does not pass what Dunn would offer us next year, so we cover that risk but we do so with the certainty that Dunn will not increase the value of our list over the next 12 months. Yeah a premiership covers all sins but I am concerned we are heading for a 2012/3 situation where we have an overpaid list that isn't up to the task and need a rebuild. In terms of risk taking I would rather see us risk having to play Magden if Roughy went down and pick up a rookie that, with our excellent coaching environment, improved and could be part of our future currency to improve our list. I am not questioning Roughy's values outside of playing for the AFL side, more questioning whether that is what we are best using our rookie pick on at this time in our history.
Another factor to consider is a year with Dunn and then replace him with a rookie on base wage may be better than a rookie on base wage in 2020 who thrives and then we need to offer bigger money to in 2021.

Looking to get all of De G, Moore and Grundy signed for 2021 will mean we will be shaving the cap everywhere and a thriving rookie may be something we can’t afford.
 

noideaatall

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Another factor to consider is a year with Dunn and then replace him with a rookie on base wage may be better than a rookie on base wage in 2020 who thrives and then we need to offer bigger money to in 2021.

Looking to get all of De G, Moore and Grundy signed for 2021 will mean we will be shaving the cap everywhere and a thriving rookie may be something we can’t afford.
Isn't this problem easily solved by trading off one of our mid range players who receive a higher pay simply due to their years in the game when we envisage issues with TPP.
 

Gone Critical

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Isn't this problem easily solved by trading off one of our mid range players who receive a higher pay simply due to their years in the game when we envisage issues with TPP.
To keep all 3 of our big stars plus Pendles I suspect it will take more than just trading off a mid range player. It will take a lot of different measures to clear enough salary to meet their needs especially if they have good years in 2020. At this point the club won’t even know whether we will be able to keep them all so planning to maximise the possibility will be a big part of Ned Guys work.

Dunn for another year replaced by a rookie in 2020 would be a consideration in that planning.
 

noideaatall

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To keep all 3 of our big stars plus Pendles I suspect it will take more than just trading off a mid range player. It will take a lot of different measures to clear enough salary to meet their needs especially if they have good years in 2020. At this point the club won’t even know whether we will be able to keep them all so planning to maximise the possibility will be a big part of Ned Guys work.

Dunn for another year replaced by a rookie in 2020 would be a consideration in that planning.
I was suggesting trade a mid range player to cover the increase cost of a rookie that flourishes. Taking an extreme example you appear to suggest we wouldn't rookie a "mal michael" because he might cost us too much for following year. Isn't there some guy who works this sort of stuff out? Couldn't we trade out said rookie the following year and use that trade to increase the value of our draft picks.
 

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Mkcaptain

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Its interesting there were only 14 new players drafted to the AFL system in the rookie draft. Obviously that number will increase once supplementary players start being selected. But is this going to be a trend that continues where clubs prefer to recycle players from inside the AFL system as depth rather than take a shot on a developmental rookie?
 

Scodog10

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We cannot ignore that he did blow the second one almost straight away in an innocuous manner, after having one of the strongest grafts Julian Feller has ever seen put in.

He's now 33 and coming off back to back ACL's - it normally it takes a footballer maybe 18 months to start getting back to their best football after just one ACL so the clock is definitely against him now. He perhaps should be looking to slim down a bit to take the load off his legs and give himself the best chance of staying upright, but it doesn't look like that is happening either from the recent pics I've seen, as he's still a gorilla.

I'm not saying he's definitely cooked, but he is certainly pushing a barrel uphill at the moment in terms of making it back to productive AFL football.
I think what’s working in his favour is that he’s fit now and has three months to impress. The circumstances don’t sit well with me, but had the second been done mid to late 2019 there’s no way he’d have been kept on. When the decision to retain a 33yo on the back of consecutive ACL’s is based on timing it’s a concern.

We’re odds on to have another LTI by mid year opening up a pick in the mid-season draft so I really hope there’s a change of heart and we go the Deledio style “doors ajar” route by giving an overlooked youngster a shot. It’s not such a big deal to have him in our VFL program until mid year then take him in that draft with a body of work under his belt.

There’s a guy out there apparently better than WHE so why not give him a crack 🤪

As it stands from this years draft order, we have 16,37,54 and 60
Right so after all that wheeling and dealing (by my count there were 6 trades that involved picks) we basically have the same draft hand for 2020 aside from upgrading in the 4th round and found an extra third rounder in 2019...

I can’t help feeling that it was a real underpants gnome strategy we had going! I think we profited, but we’ve made heavy work of it.
 
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Soups

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I think what’s working in his favour is that he’s fit now and has three months to impress. The circumstances don’t sit well with me, but had the second been done mid to late 2019 there’s no way he’d have been kept on. When the decision to retain a 33yo on the back of consecutive ACL’s is based on timing it’s a concern.

We’re odds on to have another LTI by mid year opening up a pick in the mid-season draft so I really hope there’s a change of heart and we go the Deledio style “doors ajar” route by giving an overlooked youngster a shot. It’s not such a big deal to have him in our VFL program until mid year then take him in that draft with a body of work under his belt.

There’s a guy out there apparently better than WHE so why not give him a crack 🤪



Right so after all that wheeling and dealing (by my count there were 6 trades that involved picks) we basically have the same draft hand for 2020 aside from upgrading in the 4th round and found an extra third rounder in 2019...

I can’t help feeling that it was a real underpants gnome strategy we had going! I think we profited, but we’ve made heavy work of it.
Just going off the trade board one, pretty sure it’s up to date. Would have been nice to have that extra second rounder. But at least at this stage we have a full draft hand.
 

sr36

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I think what’s working in his favour is that he’s fit now and has three months to impress. The circumstances don’t sit well with me, but had the second been done mid to late 2019 there’s no way he’d have been kept on. When the decision to retain a 33yo on the back of consecutive ACL’s is based on timing it’s a concern.

We’re odds on to have another LTI by mid year opening up a pick in the mid-season draft so I really hope there’s a change of heart and we go the Deledio style “doors ajar” route by giving an overlooked youngster a shot. It’s not such a big deal to have him in our VFL program until mid year then take him in that draft with a body of work under his belt.

There’s a guy out there apparently better than WHE so why not give him a crack 🤪



Right so after all that wheeling and dealing (by my count there were 6 trades that involved picks) we basically have the same draft hand for 2020 aside from upgrading in the 4th round and found an extra third rounder in 2019...

I can’t help feeling that it was a real underpants gnome strategy we had going! I think we profited, but we’ve made heavy work of it.
You've got to run me through the phrase underpants gnome strategy. I think I'm going to like it
 
Aug 10, 2015
47,387
39,074
AFL Club
Collingwood
Ok folks let’s just for some fun assume we kept our original first round pick (15 and with GC getting the cheat extra pick it was 16, then it in turn moved a couple of spots in matching game becoming 18)

  • Who would have taken with Pick 18?
that would be fascinating.

if it was still Jay Rantall (have a real curiosity if we pull the trigger on him then as who was best on our draft boars then) wouldn’t we all likely have felt, that sounds about right level?

i really not sure.

the talent prom pick 18 to 40 includes:

  • Mitch Georgiades
  • Sam De Koning
  • Deven Robertson
  • Dylan Williams
  • will Gould
  • josh Worrell
and others

be fascinating to get a real insight
 

Soups

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Ok folks let’s just for some fun assume we kept our original first round pick (15 and with GC getting the cheat extra pick it was 16, then it in turn moved a couple of spots in matching game becoming 18)

  • Who would have taken with Pick 18?
that would be fascinating.

if it was still Jay Rantall (have a real curiosity if we pull the trigger on him then as who was best on our draft boars then) wouldn’t we all likely have felt, that sounds about right level?

i really not sure.

the talent prom pick 18 to 40 includes:

  • Mitch Georgiades
  • Sam De Koning
  • Deven Robertson
  • Dylan Williams
  • will Gould
  • josh Worrell
and others

be fascinating to get a real insight
Will Gould for mine. Too much was read into his testing imo. He can play football. Might have change our drafting strategy with Trey at the end.
 

cityslick1

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Ok folks let’s just for some fun assume we kept our original first round pick (15 and with GC getting the cheat extra pick it was 16, then it in turn moved a couple of spots in matching game becoming 18)

  • Who would have taken with Pick 18?
that would be fascinating.

if it was still Jay Rantall (have a real curiosity if we pull the trigger on him then as who was best on our draft boars then) wouldn’t we all likely have felt, that sounds about right level?

i really not sure.

the talent prom pick 18 to 40 includes:

  • Mitch Georgiades
  • Sam De Koning
  • Deven Robertson
  • Dylan Williams
  • will Gould
  • josh Worrell
and others

be fascinating to get a real insight
Just feel we would’ve gone a tall, like worrell or De Koning. We were trying to get in there, so we must’ve had someone in mind. And I just don’t think we had Rantall ahead of all those names in the 20’s, like Gould and Robertson. Plus Hine would’ve said, if it was so...

the interesting one for me is the ducks and drakes before our pick. On the phone. Almost says we didn’t know which one we wanted so we’re happy to slide and get one? Or, hold on... maybe Ned was still trying to move up at that stage to get them both, close to each other... which he kinda did in the end. Hope the video comes out.

either way, reckon we got two we rated around 20 - 25, so it was a great get. Also think they both have upside, so could easily be top 15 players from this draft. Rantall has the ideal character, and limited exposure to AFL... then still wins his B+F! Whilst Bianco seems a perfect Sidey replacement, who captained Rowell and Noah. As stated, height and maybe the feeling he is a bit vanilla the only possible knocks on him.
 
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nahnah

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Ok folks let’s just for some fun assume we kept our original first round pick (15 and with GC getting the cheat extra pick it was 16, then it in turn moved a couple of spots in matching game becoming 18)

  • Who would have taken with Pick 18?
that would be fascinating.

if it was still Jay Rantall (have a real curiosity if we pull the trigger on him then as who was best on our draft boars then) wouldn’t we all likely have felt, that sounds about right level?

i really not sure.

the talent prom pick 18 to 40 includes:

  • Mitch Georgiades
  • Sam De Koning
  • Deven Robertson
  • Dylan Williams
  • will Gould
  • josh Worrell
and others

be fascinating to get a real insight
Not the dud Carlton picked!
 

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