Review 2019 AFL Grand Final - Richmond v GWS Saturday Sept 28th MCG 2.30pm

[Baudolino]

Not so.
Swans and WCE did it once in their eras, same with Pies.
They have done it twice in increasing impressiveness.

That perspective - the idea that teams that win two flags are *always* better than teams that win one - only makes sense if you operate on the self-evidently absurd assumption that every era is of footy equally high standard and every premiership winner has to face equally difficult teams to win.

As far as I'm concerned teams that win one premiership in a high standard era, with high standard rivals, is clearly better than a team that win two flags in a weak era with weak direct rivals. Collingwood 2010 for example was a miles better side than either of the Richmond 2017/19 sides, and history should judge them as such. Huge gulf on quality.

 

[Munich]

you'll have to wear something resembling yellow and black to survive.
would be interesting to experience that sort of support in a suburban street

It's not pretty.

 

[Baudolino]

Surely Ralph is just taking the piss now with the whole Pickett story:

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Mental.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Surely Ralph is just taking the piss now with the whole Pickett story:

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Jon Ralph makes my skin crawl

 

[Vdubs]

That perspective - the idea that teams that win two flags are *always* better than teams that win one - only makes sense if you operate on the self-evidently absurd assumption that every era is of footy equally high standard and every premiership winner has to face equally difficult teams to win.

As far as I'm concerned teams that win one premiership in a high standard era, with high standard rivals, is clearly better than a team that win two flags in a weak era with weak direct rivals. Collingwood 2010 for example was a miles better side than either of the Richmond 2017/19 sides, and history should judge them as such. Huge gulf on quality.

If you are duly qualified to be the judge of quality. Not saying you're not, but I certainly can not judge that. All I see is getting enough wins consecutively in September, after having made finals, to win a GF. The fact that a team wins 2 in 2 or 3 years is phenomenal given how hard they are to win.
The 97/98 Crows were superb.
Lions and Hawks 3-peats are outrageous in degree of difficulty.
Richmond this year did everything from the bye to prove their superiority over the other 17 teams. What more can a team do?

 

[JohnZ]

The record books won’t show we had this dominant Richmond premiership team on the ropes 21 points up in the prelim without our full forward playing

Ohhh what could have been.....

Just as they don't show that had we won 2013, Clarko was getting the chop. We were on the brink of ruining 2 "modern dynasties" and we blew them both...

 

[Vdubs]

Just as they don't show that had we won 2013, Clarko was getting the chop. We were on the brink of ruining 2 "modern dynasties" and we blew them both...

And what if Pies had beaten us in 07? How would that have ended for us? Would we have had got up again? Bartel was close to getting pinged in front of the Pies goals.
Many what-ifs.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Just as they don't show that had we won 2013, Clarko was getting the chop. We were on the brink of ruining 2 "modern dynasties" and we blew them both...

Things go slightly differently in the '07 prelim and '09 GF and the Geelong era yields very little success. You can play these games all day.

 

[Shell]

Burning GWS scarves etc down Swan st. God theyre a bunch of inbred tossers
Nfi how to be good winners

 

[cats_09]

Burning GWS scarves etc down Swan st. God theyre a bunch of inbred tossers
Nfi how to be good winners

Not just that, but this is seriously messed up & totally uncalled for

 

[Munich]

We're going to start throwing stuff on them soon.

Thinking water bombs first then stickier stuff.

 

[JohnZ]

And what if Pies had beaten us in 07? How would that have ended for us? Would we have had got up again? Bartel was close to getting pinged in front of the Pies goals.
Many what-ifs.

Things go slightly differently in the '07 prelim and '09 GF and the Geelong era yields very little success. You can play these games all day.

No surprise who responds negatively in the cats favour.

Time after time.

 

[Shell]

We're going to start throwing stuff on them soon.

Thinking water bombs first then stickier stuff.

Do iiiiiiiit

 

[Goggin Our Best]

If you are duly qualified to be the judge of quality. Not saying you're not, but I certainly can not judge that. All I s
The 97/98 Crows were superb.
Lions and Hawks 3-peats are outrageous in degree of difficulty.
Richmond this year did everything from the bye to prove their superiority over the other 17 teams. What more can a team do?

Cant agree with that

I think they are 2 of the most fortunate flags ever - both seasons they only went 13-9 W/L - nothing flash about that

97 - amazingly got that home final against us - incredible decision

98 - was a bigger joke - and if had my way - that premiership should be ruled null and void - didnt finish in the top 4 with their very modest 13 wins - Melb flog them in week 1 of the finals by over 10 goals - they should have been scrubbed- eliminated flicked from the final series at that point

AFL did some crazy scheduling back then - Carlton getting in a GF in a similar fashion to Crows in 98 comes to mind

 

[Shell]

97 was fking fkd from my pov there was no flag winners that year get FKD

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Fan base of sewer rats.

 

[Shell]

Next to come will be the nudes.



Altho i wont be complaining about those...

 

[Shell]

When we won flags i couldnt give a flying fk about the opposition no more. Was all about geelong

 

[Mahlepi]

Today showed how good our coaches were
Our list is not great, yet our coaches put in a mighty perforamnce

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Who's the lucky lass that gets to be Broad's nudes for the masses this time.

 

[Baudolino]

If you are duly qualified to be the judge of quality. Not saying you're not, but I certainly can not judge that.

All of us make subjective claims about quality all the time. They're impossible to avoid. You've been doing so yourself all throughout this conversation. Hence your claims about Richmond's quality.

Your subjective belief is clearly that every era is of equal quality and that every premiership therefore is equally hard to win. Every statement you have made implies as much. Now, that's fine if you want to believe it - even though personally I think it's an incoherent position to hold, as to me it's self-evident that not all premierships are created equal and that some are better then others - but if you're going to premise your arguments on that belief, at least be willing to own and defend it.

Richmond this year did everything from the bye to prove their superiority over the other 17 teams. What more can a team do?

If you had said "Richmond were the best team this year" I would have accepted that as a fairly reasonable view. But you didn't. You went further than that and made claims about their historical excellence relative to other teams which imo were miles better. That's the part I dispute (very strongly)

 

[Mahlepi]

Today showed some key learnings

1. we need to protect our players from the mrp. Two weeks in a row silly acts by the tigers get left unpunished. Cotchin today was dirty, and there was no media over reaction. Toby green does stupid things but the umpires need to pay the frees that are there. The media attention on the gws meant they didn’t play their game. No hits etc. Luke beverage seriously wtf was that on Thursday, accusing them of cage fighting, looking like he had just left a rave. For too long we have copped stupid decisions, like Joel pushing his brother who had lined him up.
2. forward frees. The dives today were hilarious.
3. the tigers use their hands to nudge players under the ball, and defenders are too stupid to this.
4. We lack players who play on the edge
5. The tigers reminded me of the hawks in the mid 2010s, but a poorer version
6. the tigers went and grabbed Balme and Caracalla from us, smart moves
7. Trades we need to nail, and stop the bullshit nice guys
8. The standard is low we need a committed group.
9. People need to stop blaming our coaching, we have a good list they did amazing with

 

[Goggin Our Best]

All of us make subjective claims about quality all the time. They're impossible to avoid. You've been doing so yourself all throughout this conversation. Hence your claims about Richmond's quality.

Your subjective belief is clearly that every era is of equal quality and that every premiership therefore is equally hard to win. Every statement you have made implies as much. Now, that's fine if you want to believe it - even though personally I think it's an incoherent position to hold, as to me it's self-evident that not all premierships are created equal and that some are better then others - but if you're going to premise your arguments on that belief, at least be willing to own and defend it.



If you had said "Richmond were the best team this year" I would have accepted that as a fairly reasonable view. But you didn't. You went further than that and made claims about their historical excellence relative to other teams which imo were miles better. That's the part I dispute (very strongly)

Richmond were the best team - and have been for the last 3 years

However last week - the game could have been over at half time - every one goes on about the 2nd half domination which it was

But in the 2nd qtr - im pretty sure Mathew Richardson said at some stage during that qtr that Geelong have had the last 16 inside 50s - i would call that domination as well - but inaccurate domination unfortunately

 

[cats_09]

One good thing GWS did today - they did allow Richmond to keep the record for lowest ever score in a grand final

 

[Vdubs]

Cant agree with that

I think they are 2 of the most fortunate flags ever - both seasons they only went 13-9 W/L - nothing flash about that

97 - amazingly got that home final against us - incredible decision

98 - was a bigger joke - and if had my way - that premiership should be ruled null and void - didnt finish in the top 4 with their very modest 13 wins - Melb flog them in week 1 of the finals by over 10 goals - they should have been scrubbed- eliminated flicked from the final series at that point

AFL did some crazy scheduling back then - Carlton getting in a GF in a similar fashion to Crows in 98 comes to mind

Agree totally, but their actual on the day GF performances were great. I went to the NM one at a time I couldn't stand NM and was rapt to see them get up. But, yes, that venue for us in 97, plus the disallowed game changing Colbert mark still riles me.
It was a poor example by me, because when you look at it the way you described, they were hardly the team to beat.