2019 ALL AUSTRALIAN TEAM

North supporters just keep popping up on this thread like annoying little gnats - 'what about Norf, what about Norf'

A few things -

Cunnington has been immense this year, and if he keeps it up, will most likely make it in.

Tarrant is not better than Blicavs, that is a joke. Brown only kicked 5 on Blics because Stewart was off the ground with concussion, which forced our match ups to change, which is why Brown scored 3 goals in that 20 minutes. Up until then, he'd scored 1 goal and was well held. Geelong as a defence has conceded 788 points and North as a defence has conceded 1065 points. Blicavs and Stewart have led that charge.

Ben Brown has scored about half of his goals from free kicks. That does not make him an AA forward.

******************

Aside from Cunnington, no other player is in the conversation. Stop trying to make your club relevant in a year when its not.

So, in summary, 3 players out of North's 40 man list are being floated as potential All Australians in a thread about potential All Australians and you've had a melt.

By the way, you're acting like North supporters are suggesting that someone like Shaun Atley or MacMillan are being pushed. Lets look at the three:
  1. Ben Cunnington: 3rd in the coaches votes, leading the comp in contested possessions and clearances. Speaks for himself, even you've admitted that so lets move on.
  2. Ben Brown: Kicked the 3rd most goals in the comp, which puts him in the running alone.
  3. Robbie Tarrant: Leads Blicavs in disposals, marks (contested and uncontested), contested possessions, score involvements and intercepts. Not only does he have a case to being better than Blicavs, the stats are in Tarrant's favour. Also, using team stats to push Blicavs' individual case is bizarre and shows how far gone you are.
Let's recap: You think North supporters are 'annoying gnats' for even suggesting that 3 of their players be considered for All-Australian. One of them is statistically the most dominant contested midfielder in the competition, one is the 3rd highest goalkicker for the year, and the other is a player who any serious football fan recognises as elite for many seasons now and is also better on paper than the player you've defined as the gold standard.

Now I personally think only Cunnington has a chance. In fact, I think he's likely to make the team at this stage. But to squeal as loudly as you have over North players even being brought up is one of the biggest melts I've seen in months. How truly embarrassing for you to have posted this to a public forum.
 
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4THAWN

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Mitchell's a gun. I like both.

But judging inside mids by metres gained is absolutely nonsensical. May as well judge forwards by rebound 50s.

They're also different types of players, which makes it a strange comparison in the first place. Comparing Cunnington's 2019 to Mitchell's 2018, Cunnington has more contested possessions per game, and they make up a greater percentage of his total possessions, he has more clearances, and he's better in the air. Interestingly enough, he also has a better disposal efficiency and fewer turnovers. Mitchell has more tackles, possessions, and inside 50s, but only fractionally more score involvements, indicating that Cunnington makes his possessions count more. It's telling too that he also spent 11% more time on ground than Cunnington. Cunnington is a pure inside mid, Mitchell's an all-rounder.

Its just a stat I used to point out how much of a "negative/neutral" handball machine cunnington is. When tom mitchell was racking up 36 disposals and carrying hawthorn, he was ridiculed for being an "ineffective handballing machine". Yet this season, cunnington is having 29 or whatever disposals and 2 more handballs than Titch had when he was racking up 36, and probably some of the same people are kneeling down to cunnington.

Also would have to say 6/6/6 this year would probably affect some midfield statistics, e.g. easier to get clearances/i50s from centre bounces, so I don't know how/if that would affect titch.
 

kangaspurs

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Its just a stat I used to point out how much of a "negative/neutral" handball machine cunnington is. When tom mitchell was racking up 36 disposals and carrying hawthorn, he was ridiculed for being an "ineffective handballing machine". Yet this season, cunnington is having 29 or whatever disposals and 2 more handballs than Titch had when he was racking up 36, and probably some of the same people are kneeling down to cunnington.

Also would have to say 6/6/6 this year would probably affect some midfield statistics, e.g. easier to get clearances/i50s from centre bounces, so I don't know how/if that would affect titch.
Well, I wouldn't say that because I understand the value of handballs in close, and as such I think the idea of 'negative/neutral handball machine is ridiculous as well. If a handball is backwards, it would count as negative meters gained, but it could well (and I know with Cunnington it often does, and the score involvements stat for him seems to back that up) clear congestion and put a player in a position to then move the ball forward. The player who received then kicked would look great in the meters gained column, but it's not possible without the possession that cleared the congestion and found him in the first place.

Yeah, I mean, it's one of the great shames of 2019 that he's not out there this year. As I said, he's gun and most of the criticisms of him are ridiculous and from people who clearly have a limited understanding of how valuable such players are in the modern game.

I think an interesting point too is the difference in TOG% for Cunnington compared to Mitchell in this discussion, but I would also be interested in a comparison to players league wide. We seem to have a policy with all out midfielders (or at least we did under Scott) that they only play 60-70%, which will obviously affect numbers. I was actually staggered that Cunnington has Mitchell so comfortably covered in the score involvements stat despite playing 11% less game time on average.

Like in soccer, where they have a per-90 average for players freely available, I wonder if there is something like a per-120 minutes stat kept in the AFL somewhere, maybe by Champion Data. Those would be interesting to see.
 

4THAWN

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Well, I wouldn't say that because I understand the value of handballs in close, and as such I think the idea of 'negative/neutral handball machine is ridiculous as well. If a handball is backwards, it would count as negative meters gained, but it could well (and I know with Cunnington it often does, and the score involvements stat for him seems to back that up) clear congestion and put a player in a position to then move the ball forward. The player who received then kicked would look great in the meters gained column, but it's not possible without the possession that cleared the congestion and found him in the first place.

Yeah, I mean, it's one of the great shames of 2019 that he's not out there this year. As I said, he's gun and most of the criticisms of him are ridiculous and from people who clearly have a limited understanding of how valuable such players are in the modern game.

I think an interesting point too is the difference in TOG% for Cunnington compared to Mitchell in this discussion, but I would also be interested in a comparison to players league wide. We seem to have a policy with all out midfielders (or at least we did under Scott) that they only play 60-70%, which will obviously affect numbers. I was actually staggered that Cunnington has Mitchell so comfortably covered in the score involvements stat despite playing 11% less game time on average.

Like in soccer, where they have a per-90 average for players freely available, I wonder if there is something like a per-120 minutes stat kept in the AFL somewhere, maybe by Champion Data. Those would be interesting to see.

Im with you, I don't think either mitchell or cunnington would handball if it wasn't their best immediate option. I rate both players, just seems weird 1 season ago the amount of hate going towards mitchell for his handball-heavy game style.

Surely North's TOG% is somehow related to playing at Marvel, versus playing most home games at the MCG.

And if not, then that is very weird.
 

Shadow89

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So, in summary, 3 players out of North's 40 man list are being floated as potential All Australians in a thread about potential All Australians and you've had a melt.

By the way, you're acting like North supporters are suggesting that someone like Shaun Atley or MacMillan are being pushed. Lets look at the three:
  1. Ben Cunnington: 3rd in the coaches votes, leading the comp in contested possessions and clearances. Speaks for himself, even you've admitted that so lets move on.
  2. Ben Brown: Kicked the 3rd most goals in the comp, which puts him in the running alone.
  3. Robbie Tarrant: Leads Blicavs in disposals, marks (contested and uncontested), contested possessions, score involvements and intercepts. Not only does he have a case to being better than Blicavs, the stats are in Tarrant's favour. Also, using team stats to push Blicavs' individual case is bizarre and shows how far gone you are.
Let's recap: You think North supporters are 'annoying gnats' for even suggesting that 3 of their players be considered for All-Australian. One of them is statistically the most dominant contested midfielder in the competition, one is the 3rd highest goalkicker for the year, and the other is a player who any serious football fan recognises as elite for many seasons now and is also better on paper than the player you've defined as the gold standard.

Now I personally think only Cunnington has a chance. In fact, I think he's likely to make the team at this stage. But to squeal as loudly as you have over North players even being brought up is one of the biggest melts I've seen in months. How truly embarrassing for you to have posted this to a public forum.

You realized you just had a melt about a supposed melt, right? Meltception

I was being condescending and a bit of a d*ck, lol. You're the one who just sat there and tried to justify everything after getting offended. Would say that's the definition of the word 'melt.'

Getting even more upset shows that you're wedded to the aforementioned ideas of those 3, even though you purport not to be.

How truly embarrassing for you to have posted that to a public forum.

Was a throwaway bunch of comments, there's much worse on BigFooty.
 
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You realized you just had a melt about a supposed melt, right? Meltception

I was being condescending, lol. You're the one who just sat there and tried to justify everything after getting offended. Would say that's the definition of the word 'melt.'

Getting even more upset shows that you're wedded to the aforementioned ideas of those 3, even though you purport not to be.

How truly embarrassing for you to have posted this to a public forum.

Was a throwaway bunch of comments, don't take life so seriously, lol
Awesome discussion :rolleyes:
 
You realized you just had a melt about a supposed melt, right? Meltception

I was being condescending and a bit of a d*ck, lol. You're the one who just sat there and tried to justify everything after getting offended. Would say that's the definition of the word 'melt.'

Getting even more upset shows that you're wedded to the aforementioned ideas of those 3, even though you purport not to be.

How truly embarrassing for you to have posted that to a public forum.

Was a throwaway bunch of comments, there's much worse on BigFooty.

"No, YOU are the one who melted!"

Riveting conversation, you sure showed me.
 
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You realized you just had a melt about a supposed melt, right? Meltception

I was being condescending and a bit of a d*ck, lol. You're the one who just sat there and tried to justify everything after getting offended. Would say that's the definition of the word 'melt.'

Getting even more upset shows that you're wedded to the aforementioned ideas of those 3, even though you purport not to be.

How truly embarrassing for you to have posted that to a public forum.

Was a throwaway bunch of comments, there's much worse on BigFooty.

He used facts to back up an opinion. I know that seems odd to you, but it’s called making a sound and informed response. Stop posting emotional rubbish simply because you don’t like North.
 

Ambrosia

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He used facts to back up an opinion. I know that seems odd to you, but it’s called making a sound and informed response. Stop posting emotional rubbish simply because you don’t like North.

Nah man Stewart being off means goals against Blicavs don't count so he's obviously better than Tarrant :drunk:
 
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Well, I wouldn't say that because I understand the value of handballs in close, and as such I think the idea of 'negative/neutral handball machine is ridiculous as well. If a handball is backwards, it would count as negative meters gained, but it could well (and I know with Cunnington it often does, and the score involvements stat for him seems to back that up) clear congestion and put a player in a position to then move the ball forward. The player who received then kicked would look great in the meters gained column, but it's not possible without the possession that cleared the congestion and found him in the first place.

Yeah, I mean, it's one of the great shames of 2019 that he's not out there this year. As I said, he's gun and most of the criticisms of him are ridiculous and from people who clearly have a limited understanding of how valuable such players are in the modern game.

I think an interesting point too is the difference in TOG% for Cunnington compared to Mitchell in this discussion, but I would also be interested in a comparison to players league wide. We seem to have a policy with all out midfielders (or at least we did under Scott) that they only play 60-70%, which will obviously affect numbers. I was actually staggered that Cunnington has Mitchell so comfortably covered in the score involvements stat despite playing 11% less game time on average.

Like in soccer, where they have a per-90 average for players freely available, I wonder if there is something like a per-120 minutes stat kept in the AFL somewhere, maybe by Champion Data. Those would be interesting to see.
I've always wanted to see some sort of secondary or assisted metres gained stat. Think that would really show the effective inside mids.

Also I've seen a points per minute stat that the AFL prospectus put out weekly. Cunnington is going at .92 which is highish but not great. Most clubs seem to have 2-3 players that average over 1. North have a Higgins as the highest at .94
 
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I've always wanted to see some sort of secondary or assisted metres gained stat. Think that would really show the effective inside mids.

Also I've seen a points per minute stat that the AFL prospectus put out weekly. Cunnington is going at .92 which is highish but not great. Most clubs seem to have 2-3 players that average over 1. North have a Higgins as the highest at .94
That diabolical start to our season is having a knock on effect with this kind of stat. I wish we came into the year with fitness and a plan that wasn't just 'handball around till MacMillan can kick to a turnover'

Would be interested to see the same stat over a 5 game sample size
 
  1. Ben Brown: Kicked the 3rd most goals in the comp, which puts him in the running alone.
  2. Robbie Tarrant: Leads Blicavs in disposals, marks (contested and uncontested), contested possessions, score involvements and intercepts. Not only does he have a case to being better than Blicavs, the stats are in Tarrant's favour. Also, using team stats to push Blicavs' individual case is bizarre and shows how far gone you are.
No. Just no.
Blicavs has been brilliant marshalling the stiffest defence.

Only room for two key forwards and that Cameron and Hawkins.
 

KiwiRoo

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No. Just no.
Blicavs has been brilliant marshalling the stiffest defence.

Only room for two key forwards and that Cameron and Hawkins.


How bout you mount an argument rather than just a statement of "fact". Tarrant's been excellent for years and again this year. Its a good debate. why don't you put an argument up for Blicavs ? Something other than he's part of the stiffest defence because many things can contribute to that


Chances are Cameron and Hawkins will take the chocolates this year , but Browns last 5-6 weeks has been pretty good too. he hasn't done enough yet to be AA, but hey the years only half through. What happens if he won the Coleman ? That would mount a pretty good case
Again its a good debate
 

fnerd

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North supporters just keep popping up on this thread like annoying little gnats - 'what about Norf, what about Norf'

A few things -

Cunnington has been immense this year, and if he keeps it up, will most likely make it in.

Tarrant is not better than Blicavs, that is a joke. Brown only kicked 5 on Blics because Stewart was off the ground with concussion, which forced our match ups to change, which is why Brown scored 3 goals in that 20 minutes. Up until then, he'd scored 1 goal and was well held. Geelong as a defence has conceded 788 points and North as a defence has conceded 1065 points. Blicavs and Stewart have led that charge.

Ben Brown has scored about half of his goals from free kicks. That does not make him an AA forward.

******************

Aside from Cunnington, no other player is in the conversation. Stop trying to make your club relevant in a year when its not.
Haha
Re posted for absolute truth.
Definitely the most insecure fans on BF
 
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That diabolical start to our season is having a knock on effect with this kind of stat. I wish we came into the year with fitness and a plan that wasn't just 'handball around till MacMillan can kick to a turnover'

Would be interested to see the same stat over a 5 game sample size
Could also be a case of a better spread across the team while others are more top heavy.

But yeah a shorter sample could be interesting for when there is a clear change in how the team plays
 
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There's either some overrating of Cunnington's previous years, or people have lost sight of what it actually requires to be All Australian, especially as a midfielder.

He's been a good to very good player since 2013. He's never been AA level.

Looks like he's a strong candidate this year though.
 
How bout you mount an argument rather than just a statement of "fact". Tarrant's been excellent for years and again this year. Its a good debate. why don't you put an argument up for Blicavs ? Something other than he's part of the stiffest defence because many things can contribute to that


Chances are Cameron and Hawkins will take the chocolates this year , but Browns last 5-6 weeks has been pretty good too. he hasn't done enough yet to be AA, but hey the years only half through. What happens if he won the Coleman ? That would mount a pretty good case
Again its a good debate
Don’t need to.

I’d be confident that if the team was done now he’d be in it. the goals that Brown kicked on him were hardly his fault. 3-4 of those were on turnover with North players hitting BB lace out on the lead.
 

KiwiRoo

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Don’t need to.

I’d be confident that if the team was done now he’d be in it. the goals that Brown kicked on him were hardly his fault. 3-4 of those were on turnover with North players hitting BB lace out on the lead.


i don't disagree. The top side normally has a higher representation in the AA side and fair enough.
Not at all convinced the Blicavs is a better player than Tarrant though, but I haven't watched many of Geelongs games and I don't think you've seen too many of Norths
 

Happy Mastenator

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Does anyone know how many goals Ben Brown has scored from freekicks this year? Not sure why but over the last season and a half every time I watch him all I see is him flopping and exaggerating contact. He never used to do it but seems to be his go-to strategy these days.

What are you talking about? He’s always done it. Leads hard but if runs under the ball (what he does a lot) it’s all arms flailing, hair flopping, as if he’d been shoved in the back
 
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Does anyone know how many goals Ben Brown has scored from freekicks this year? Not sure why but over the last season and a half every time I watch him all I see is him flopping and exaggerating contact. He never used to do it but seems to be his go-to strategy these days.

Brown wouldn’t even be in the squad at this stage. And yes he does get a lot of free kicks! Has done for a couple of years now.
From nth Cunnington should be in the team and Tarrant in the squad and that’s it.
 
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