2019 ALL AUSTRALIAN TEAM

[OnceKicked50]

T.Stewart H.Andrews L.Ryan
S.Hurn M.Blicavs J.Sicily
M.Duncan P.Cripps L.Whitfield
P.Dangerfield J.Cameron M.Walters
G.Ablett T.Hawkins C.Cameron

Foll: B.Grundy L.Neale T.Kelly

Int: T.Boak, B.Brown, B.Cunnington and S.Pendelbury.

I found the last small forward, Charlie Cameron, the most open position if picking to position. DeGoey has only played 9 games which is why I went with Cameron. Bruest could make a run at it also, but most likley DeGoey ends up in this spot at seasons end.

I avoided picking all mids on the bench, Ben Brown has three less goals than Hawkins, is on track for 60 goals, again, and has done this in a team that has until recently struggled.

Dom Sheed and Steven Coniglio would be stiff for mine.

 

[Baird]

It's true, I've never rated him that highly.
Just seems like a handball merchant to me. A good honest dependable midfielder.

but let's look at the last team put up in this thread;

B Stewart Blicavs Hurn
HB Sicily Andrews Grimes
C Henderson Cripps Hill
HF Walters Cameron Ablett
F Cameron Hawkins De Goey
Foll: Grundy Neale Fyfe
Int: Gawn, Pendelbury, Kelly, Treloar


Neale
Fyfe
Kelly
Treloar
Cripps

all locks.

Pendlebury is a decent shout but arguable over Whitfield. Then there's Boak and Zorko.
Wing positions should go to a winger.

Treloar is nowhere near a lock

 

[Art Vandelay_]

And @Doctor Gero, sure others get more of the ball on the outside, but what good is that in a player like Treloar when he turns it over with his dreadful skills and it's going back the other way?

Relevance? Dane Swan had worse skills than Treloar but ended up a 3 time B&F winner, AFL MVP, Brownlow medallist and 5 time All Australian. Why?!? Because he impacted games.

I don’t dislike Ben, I just don’t think he’s at the top of the pile as it stands now.

 

[Damon_3388]

And Doctor Gero, sure others get more of the ball on the outside, but what good is that in a player like Treloar when he turns it over with his dreadful skills and it's going back the other way?

Treloar actually has a pretty low turnover rate this year (13.69% of disposals) as far as full-time midfielders go, especially considering he's not entirely an outside player (37.71% contested possession rate, 4.91 clearances per game). Part of that is to do with his kick-to-handball ratio (0.75 this year), but he's not the turnover machine people make him out to be, and he's not really the type of player that people perceive him to be, either. Just because he runs fast, it doesn't mean he's an outside player.

 

[Damon_3388]

Ben Cunnington

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People demand more well-roundedness from their "elite" midfielders. Rather than just be a ball winner who hands off to others, they want them to be a playmaker too.

Cunnington is great at what he does, but he's never consistently shown himself to be particularly well-rounded or capable of being any sort of playmaker on his own. Being 4th on his team for score involvements per game this year is evidence of this.

 

[Damon_3388]

The coaches rate him ahead of a lot of other "locks" in this thread (#5 in AFL), but what would they know, right? Their football knowledge pales in comparison to Dr "Joel Selwood doesn't duck" Gero.

Anyway, I'm off to get a coffee. Hooroo shagger, enjoy your Sunday

And when a team doesn't play well, the first to cop criticism and be in the firing line is the coach. We defer to their "superior knowledge" when it suits, apparently.

 

[kelman]

People demand more well-roundedness from their "elite" midfielders. Rather than just be a ball winner who hands off to others, they want them to be a playmaker too.

Cunnington is great at what he does, but he's never consistently shown himself to be particularly well-rounded or capable of being any sort of playmaker on his own. Being 4th on his team for score involvements per game this year is evidence of this.

Cunnington averages more score involvements than Cripps and Neale.

 

[kangaspurs]

Treloar actually has a pretty low turnover rate this year (13.69% of disposals) as far as full-time midfielders go, especially considering he's not entirely an outside player (37.71% contested possession rate, 4.91 clearances per game). Part of that is to do with his kick-to-handball ratio (0.75 this year), but he's not the turnover machine people make him out to be, and he's not really the type of player that people perceive him to be, either. Just because he runs fast, it doesn't mean he's an outside player.

That's a fair point. He is top 10 in clangers though. I may have overplayed it slightly, but he's certainty not a good user of the ball.

Also, re your playmaker comment. I couldn't disagree more. As above, his score involvements seem to rank favorably against similar types, and I would absolutely argue that he's a playmaker, but by hand, as opposed to getting it on the outside. He wins the ball as good as, if not better than, anyone in the league atm, and uses it extremely creatively by hand in close. These aren't just dinky handballs to people under as much pressure as he is we're talking about. They're effective handballs that clear congestion and set up attacks. How is that not playmaking?

 

[kangaspurs]

Relevance? Dane Swan had worse skills than Treloar but ended up a 3 time B&F winner, AFL MVP, Brownlow medallist and 5 time All Australian. Why?!? Because he impacted games.

I don’t dislike Ben, I just don’t think he’s at the top of the pile as it stands now.

Mate, you're just using such a vague concept as 'impact.' There's nothing tangible whatsoever that says that Treloar, or a handful of others that have been mentioned, are having more of an impact than Cunnington atm. There's absolutely nothing to support what you're arguing, it's just a feeling.

Do you really think if he wasn't 'impacting games' (which, by the way, is such a rubbish way of assessing players. A lot of players impact games, in fact all, but more nuance is required in assessing degree and nature of that influence) he's be top 5 in the coaches votes?

 

[Damon_3388]

Cunnington averages more score involvements than Cripps and Neale.

The difference is negligible, and they're all different sized variants on the same type of player, so they're all probably competing for 1-2 spots anyway.

I'd say Neale is probably the closest to being "well-rounded" out of the three (most inside 50s, most goal assists, best disposal efficiency, most balanced contested/uncontested ratio).

 

[adammania9]

Treloar hasn’t been the same since his hamstring year against Carlton last year. His explosive running and line breaking speed hasn’t shown this season. His volume of disposals is greater than its ever been but there’s a lot of little dinky handballs that are more for supporting other mids than they are for solo impact. Certainly not in the AA side this season, and I wouldn’t have him in the squad either.

Last year’s Treloar was in the top handful of players in the comp before his hamstring tear. His ball use was legitimately elite (I watched every single touch of his - I’ve always looked closely at his usage), his running was superb and he was kicking heaps of goals too. He was the main reason our midfield became one of the league’s best last season - he was unquestionably superb. How I wish for that Treloar again.

 

[Damon_3388]

That's a fair point. He is top 10 in clangers though. I may have overplayed it slightly, but he's certainty not a good user of the ball.

It's a common misconception, but clangers aren't turnovers. They're separate statistical categories from each other.

Clangers are a total of other unforced errors, like frees against, fumbles, out on the full, caught holding the ball, etc. Playing on the ball a lot, you're going to get a fair bit of those anyway, which is why the clanger leaderboard is mainly made up of full time mids and ruckmen.

Also, re your playmaker comment. I couldn't disagree more. As above, his score involvements seem to rank favorably against similar types, and I would absolutely argue that he's a playmaker, but by hand, as opposed to getting it on the outside. He wins the ball as good as, if not better than, anyone in the league atm, and uses it extremely creatively by hand in close. These aren't just dinky handballs to people under as much pressure as he is we're talking about. They're effective handballs that clear congestion and set up attacks. How is that not playmaking?

I meant moreso being a direct inside 50, goal assist type mid. Others do that better, while also winning a fair share of their own ball.

 

[kangaspurs]

It's a common misconception, but clangers aren't turnovers. They're separate statistical categories from each other.

Clangers are a total of other unforced errors, like frees against, fumbles, out on the full, caught holding the ball, etc. Playing on the ball a lot, you're going to get a fair bit of those anyway, which is why the clanger leaderboard is mainly made up of full time mids and ruckmen.



I meant moreso being a direct inside 50, goal assist type mid. Others do that better, while also winning a fair share of their own ball.

Ok. I didn't know that. Thanks.

Yeah, I know what you meant, but my point is that's a very limited idea of what a playmaker is.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Mate, you're just using such a vague concept as 'impact.' There's nothing tangible whatsoever that says that Treloar, or a handful of others that have been mentioned, are having more of an impact than Cunnington atm. There's absolutely nothing to support what you're arguing, it's just a feeling.

Do you really think if he wasn't 'impacting games' (which, by the way, is such a rubbish way of assessing players. A lot of players impact games, in fact all, but more nuance is required in assessing degree and nature of that influence) he's be top 5 in the coaches votes?

Of course it’s a feeling. I feel the others impact results more.

There’s probably 5 mids without hesitation I’d pick ahead of him.

 

[TonaldDrump]

Who will the small forwards be this year?
Ablett?
Cameron?
Betts?
Simpkin?

 

[kelman]

The difference is negligible, and they're all different sized variants on the same type of player, so they're all probably competing for 1-2 spots anyway.

I'd say Neale is probably the closest to being "well-rounded" out of the three (most inside 50s, most goal assists, best disposal efficiency, most balanced contested/uncontested ratio).

Hang, you said Cunnington’s score involvement stats were evidence that he is not well rounded. Are you saying all of Cripps, Neale and Cunnington are not well rounded? Or are you changing the criteria after you found out Cunnington leads that stat?

 

[Damon_3388]

Who will the small forwards be this year?
Ablett?
Cameron?
Betts?
Simpkin?

Simpkin?!

 

[TonaldDrump]

Simpkin?!

Yeah. A north poster tells me he's number 3 in the Champion Data rankings for general forwards.

 

[Damon_3388]

Hang, you said Cunnington’s score involvement stats were evidence that he is not well rounded. Are you saying all of Cripps, Neale and Cunnington are not well rounded? Or are you changing the criteria after you found out Cunnington leads that stat?

I clearly said they're all different sized (body-wise) variants on the same type of player.

Again, the difference between their score involvement numbers in negligible to the point of being virtually the same. However, given that he has the most "balanced" output of the three, Neale is probably the closest to being "well-rounded" of the three (most inside 50s, most goal assists, best disposal efficiency, most balanced contested/uncontested ratio, while also having the gaudy clearance numbers).

 

[Damon_3388]

Yeah. A north poster tells me he's number 3 in the Champion Data rankings for general forwards.

So you just blindly take that as gospel?

He wouldn't be anywhere near the top 20 non-key forwards in the league in actuality. He spends half his time in the midfield as well.

Averaging 4.91 score involvements, 2.64 inside 50s, 0.36 goals, 0.55 goal assists, and 0.64 tackles inside 50 per game this year.

 

[4THAWN]

Most accurate I’ve seen tbh. Obviously if Whitfield didn’t get injured you would pick him over hill. I’d only have Boak in there and swap him with Cameron

haven't watched too much of port, but i thought boak was back in the midfield rather than playing forward? Also yes whitfield is a weapon he'd be on of first picked barring injuries.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

I clearly said they're all different sized (body-wise) variants on the same type of player.

Again, the difference between their score involvement numbers in negligible to the point of being virtually the same. However, given that he has the most "balanced" output of the three, Neale is probably the closest to being "well-rounded" of the three (most inside 50s, most goal assists, best disposal efficiency, most balanced contested/uncontested ratio, while also having the gaudy clearance numbers).

So pick all three?

It just seems odd that Cripps and Neale are starting locks and Cunnington can't even make a bench.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Off the dome lad

B Stewart Blicavs Hurn
HB Sicily Andrews Grimes
C Henderson Cripps Hill
HF Walters Cameron Ablett
F Cameron Hawkins De Goey
Foll: Grundy Neale Fyfe
Int: Gawn, Pendelbury, Kelly, Treloar

Boak is 4th amongst the coaches.

He's a walk up in that centre line of yours. Only Cripps ahead.

For that matter so should Kelly be starting. Hes 1st...

 

[Damon_3388]

So pick all three?

It just seems odd that Cripps and Neale are starting locks and Cunnington can't even make a bench.

I never claimed that any of them are locks.

I'd say the three of them are fighting for 1-2 spots, if you want to make a balanced team out of it.

 

[Damon_3388]

For that matter so should Kelly be starting. Hes 1st...

He's #1 in the league for score involvements per game too, from the midfield.