Strategy 2019 - Best 22 & Player Discussion

Tayl0r

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Do you remember how easily Logue was sidestepped in his first season because he over committed? Hopefully he has resolved that, I'd want him to have if he were to move to the middle.
 

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JBMAN

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I would love to see him go through the middle, he could be a real bull at the ball and is a long kick which would be handy firing in quickly to a, hopefully, much improved forward line. Some of these positional questions will hopefully be answered during preseason. Certainly the best list we have had for some time. Feeling quite optimistic this season.
 

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RE: the backline, I think there's someone that's somewhat been forgotten but now that he's fit and can fight for his spot, Hughes is like the hybrid of Logue and Duman. Can play the third tall interceptor with decent skills and isn't slow. IMO it's between Hughes and Duman for a spot in the backline:

Hughes/Duman - Hamling - Logue
Wilson - Pearce - Ryan

I'd prefer to see Cerra and Hilly play mainly midfield or forward (rotating).
 

maccamk

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I think I would rather see Hughes run through the middle than Logue. He was running side by side with Fyfe today and is one of the few players on our list that could compete physically in both strength and running ability with Fyfe. Also performs strongly in 2km time trial and sprints.

Re Duman and Logue they will play different roles. Logue is a third tall. Duman is a HBF in the mould of Wilson, Ryan, Hilly but if needed can play as an undersized third tall. Logue will compete with Kersten Watson and Cox(if moves back) for a role in the side.
 

theGav56

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RE: the backline, I think there's someone that's somewhat been forgotten but now that he's fit and can fight for his spot, Hughes is like the hybrid of Logue and Duman. Can play the third tall interceptor with decent skills and isn't slow. IMO it's between Hughes and Duman for a spot in the backline:

Hughes/Duman - Hamling - Logue
Wilson - Pearce - Ryan

I'd prefer to see Cerra and Hilly play mainly midfield or forward (rotating).
Modern football is all about multi position players, especially midfield who can rotate forward or back. Cerra and Hill are preferred over Hill and Duman for that reason.
 

sherrif

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Nah, you are going on hype/potential rather than reality. Duman has smashed him on almost every statistic so far...

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=9&type=A&pid1=6336&pid2=6400&fid1=C&fid2=C

I think both have great potential, and both also have weaknesses they need to overcome. No reason both couldn't find a spot in our best 22 this season if they have addressed their weaknesses.
Sometimes statistics can be overated massively. Particularly when you are comparing players playing very different roles. For all the grief Logue has gotten by some on here the fact remains he's key position size and if you compare him to the first year to other star key defenders at the same time in their careers (the first year) he actually smashes most in terms of first year output.

People forget when Logue was playing at afl level in 2017 he actually played on the opposition second tall a lot, not the third tall role most seem to think he played. That's why he was matched up on the like of Harry Taylor and Daw. Two players he obliterated if you have a look at the games. (Note: Harry Taylor was moved to defence at half time after Logue smashed.) He was also terrific on two excellent players in Memberey and Darling in games late in the season. Membrey kicked two goals but both of those were late when Logue had moved off him to play on Riewolt after he hadnt had a sniff when Logue was on him. Darling kicked three goals for the game, but Logue was moved onto him after he'd kicked two on Hughes early. His cameos rotating for brief periods on the likes of Franklin and Nick Riewolt were also very promising in my view. See footywire comparisons for Glass, Scarlett, Talia and even Mcpharlin in his third year for an accurate comparison rather than comparing him to a player who's a skinny flanker with a suspect leaping ability. Duman did make progress last year, but his big possession games seemed to occur because the opposition let him roam as our plus one defender with no player trying to man him up. Hence his 27 odd possessions against Collingwood.

Seeing Logue this preseaon he actually looks bigger and may have a grown a centre metre or two. While Duman would still be the second skinniest player on our list. Comparing the two players is like comparing apples and oranges or like saying Paul Duffiled was a surperior player to Mcpharlin because he won more of the ball.

I love your statistical input WTG here, but in this case I dont think the comparison is valid. Even in preseason training I''ve already seen Duman get dominated completely when matched on tall forwards in one activity where he was forced to play on talls because Hamling, A.Pearce and Kersten werent present and Cox was playing forward. While Logue has done exceptionally on both Lobb and Tabs in match sim play, so much so a regular training watcher said it was some of the best work he'd ever seen in one of the sessions because he spoiled tall and ran off, while at the same time he went for his marks against smaller players in the same session.
 
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wayToGo_

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Sometimes statistics can be overated massively. Particularly when you are comparing players playing very different roles. For all the grief Logue has gotten by some on here the fact remains he's key position size and if you compare him to the first year to other star key defenders at the same time in their careers (the first year) he actually smashes most in terms of first year output.

People forget when Logue was playing at afl level in 2017 he actually played on the opposition second tall a lot, not the third tall role most seem to think he played. That's why he was matched up on the like of Harry Taylor and Daw. Two players he obliterated if you have a look at the games. (Note: Harry Taylor was moved to defence at half time after Logue smashed.) He was also terrific on two excellent players in Memberey and Darling in games late in the season. Membrey kicked two goals but both of those were late when Logue had moved off him to play on Riewolt after he hadnt had a sniff when Logue was on him. Darling kicked three goals for the game, but Logue was moved onto him after he'd kicked two on Hughes early. His cameos rotating for brief periods on the likes of Franklin and Nick Riewolt were also very promising in my view. See footywire comparisons for Glass, Scarlett, Talia and even Mcpharlin in his third year for an accurate comparison rather than comparing him to a player who's a skinny flanker with a suspect leaping ability. Duman did make progress last year, but his big possession games seemed to occur because the opposition let him roam as our plus one defender with no player trying to man him up. Hence his 27 odd possessions against Collingwood.

Seeing Logue this preseaon he actually looks bigger and may have a grown a centre metre or two. While Duman would still be the second skinniest player on our list. Comparing the two players is like comparing apples and oranges or like saying Paul Duffiled was a surperior player to Mcpharlin because he won more of the ball.

I love your statistical input WTG here, but in this case I dont think the comparison is valid. Even in preseason training I''ve already seen Duman get dominated completely when matched on tall forwards in one activity where he was forced to play on talls because Hamling, A.Pearce and Kersten werent present and Cox was playing forward. While Logue has done exceptionally on both Lobb and Tabs in match sim play, so much so a regular training watcher said it was some of the best work he'd ever seen in one of the sessions because he spoiled tall and ran off, while at the same time he went for his marks against smaller players in the same session.
Don't disagree with any of this but it doesn't really relate to anything in my post. Like I said, I think both can secure a spot in the best 22 if they address their weaknesses. But anyone saying Logue is well ahead of Duman for selection is basing it solely on hype and not on what they've each shown at AFL level. At this stage Logue has done very little in AFL games in regard to what Freo needs as a 3rd tall (he has intercepted less than Hughes, Duman etc). Agree he has shown great signs defensively (so good cover for Hamling/Pearce) but we desperately need a roll off interceptor more so than another lock down defender. Duman is a half back (not a 3rd tall) and finished last season in ripping form so I don't see how he isn't in the mix for Rd1. Hughes is a bit of a hybrid and has shown glimpses of that 3rd tall role in the past but imo went a bit backwards last year (finished strongly though). I'd suspect all three are currently in the mix for selection.

I've liked what I've seen in training (from Logue) as well but it's a big step to do it in an AFL game, especially after more than a year out with injury. I hope he comes out and smashes it but past history suggests it'll take him a while to find his feet again (with the pace and pressure of a live AFL game). My post wasn't a criticism of Logue, it was defending how well Duman did last season. I thought he was clearly one of our best against Collingwood in Rd23 - I re-watched it the other day and we didn't play a loose defender for the vast majority of that game so you are being unfair on your assessment of his performance.
 

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theGav56

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Sometimes statistics can be overated massively. Particularly when you are comparing players playing very different roles. For all the grief Logue has gotten by some on here the fact remains he's key position size and if you compare him to the first year to other star key defenders at the same time in their careers (the first year) he actually smashes most in terms of first year output.

People forget when Logue was playing at afl level in 2017 he actually played on the opposition second tall a lot, not the third tall role most seem to think he played. That's why he was matched up on the like of Harry Taylor and Daw. Two players he obliterated if you have a look at the games. (Note: Harry Taylor was moved to defence at half time after Logue smashed.) He was also terrific on two excellent players in Memberey and Darling in games late in the season. Membrey kicked two goals but both of those were late when Logue had moved off him to play on Riewolt after he hadnt had a sniff when Logue was on him. Darling kicked three goals for the game, but Logue was moved onto him after he'd kicked two on Hughes early. His cameos rotating for brief periods on the likes of Franklin and Nick Riewolt were also very promising in my view. See footywire comparisons for Glass, Scarlett, Talia and even Mcpharlin in his third year for an accurate comparison rather than comparing him to a player who's a skinny flanker with a suspect leaping ability. Duman did make progress last year, but his big possession games seemed to occur because the opposition let him roam as our plus one defender with no player trying to man him up. Hence his 27 odd possessions against Collingwood.

Seeing Logue this preseaon he actually looks bigger and may have a grown a centre metre or two. While Duman would still be the second skinniest player on our list. Comparing the two players is like comparing apples and oranges or like saying Paul Duffiled was a surperior player to Mcpharlin because he won more of the ball.

I love your statistical input WTG here, but in this case I dont think the comparison is valid. Even in preseason training I''ve already seen Duman get dominated completely when matched on tall forwards in one activity where he was forced to play on talls because Hamling, A.Pearce and Kersten werent present and Cox was playing forward. While Logue has done exceptionally on both Lobb and Tabs in match sim play, so much so a regular training watcher said it was some of the best work he'd ever seen in one of the sessions because he spoiled tall and ran off, while at the same time he went for his marks against smaller players in the same session.
A pretty passionate response there sherrif. I'm not really into the building one up to take the other down, and like you say, they aren't competing for the same role. I do like them both, and the similarity that I see with them is versatility in the future. Would happily see them both in our 22, but like you, I forecast big things for Logue.
 

sherrif

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Don't disagree with any of this but it doesn't really relate to anything in my post. Like I said, I think both can secure a spot in the best 22 if they address their weaknesses. But anyone saying Logue is well ahead of Duman for selection is basing it solely on hype and not on what they've each shown at AFL level. At this stage Logue has done very little in AFL games in regard to what Freo needs as a 3rd tall (he has intercepted less than Hughes, Duman etc). Agree he has shown great signs defensively (so good cover for Hamling/Pearce) but we desperately need a roll off interceptor more so than another lock down defender. Duman is a half back (not a 3rd tall) and finished last season in ripping form so I don't see how he isn't in the mix for Rd1. Hughes is a bit of a hybrid and has shown glimpses of that 3rd tall role in the past but imo went a bit backwards last year (finished strongly though). I'd suspect all three are currently in the mix for selection.

I've liked what I've seen in training (from Logue) as well but it's a big step to do it in an AFL game, especially after more than a year out with injury. I hope he comes out and smashes it but past history suggests it'll take him a while to find his feet again (with the pace and pressure of a live AFL game). My post wasn't a criticism of Logue, it was defending how well Duman did last season. I thought he was clearly one of our best against Collingwood in Rd23 - I re-watched it the other day and we didn't play a loose defender for the vast majority of that game so you are being unfair on your assessment of his performance.
Yep, I dont mind if they are both in the 22 and I respect your opinion, but disagree. My view on Logue is not based on hype, but rather on the fact very few key backs have done as well as he did in their first year. Like I said, look at his game on Jack Darling as an example. He completely shut him down, bar one pack mark goal in the derby he played and then compare how Darling did against us in the games this year. He reminds me of a young Alex Rance, not a third tall.

My personal view is also that Hamling is well suited to playing on the mid/small forwards close to goal in a shut down role. Bruest Fantasia, Wingard and other high level small and medium forwards have killed us in recent years and I like the option of Joel playing on those types like he did for the Bulldogs in their Premiership year. That would then free up Ryan, Cerra and perhaps Bewley to rotate in intercept roles as strategy of improving our delivery from defence at the same time.
 
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Yep, I dont mind if they are both in the 22 and I respect your opinion, but disagree. My view on Logue is not based on hype, but rather on the fact very few key backs have done as well as he did in their first year. Like I said, look at his game on Jack Darling as an example. He completely shut him down, bar one pack mark goal in the derby he played and then compare how Darling did against us in the games this year. He reminds me of a young Alex Rance, not a third tall.

My personal view is also that Hamling is well suited to playing on the mid/small forwards close to goal in a shut down role. Bruest Fantasia, Wingard and other high level small and medium forwards have killed us in recent years and I like the option of Joel playing on those types like he did for the Bulldogs in their Premiership year. That would then free up Ryan, Cerra and perhaps Bewley to rotate in intercept roles as strategy of improving our delivery from defence at the same time.
Hamling took the big forwards as dale morris is only 190cm the had wood for the smaller players.
Ryan is our back pocket and needs to be able to play on those dangerous players who like goals.
I reckon our half backs can cover the dangerous half forwards Wilson and hill also have pace.
 

sherrif

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Hamling took the big forwards as dale morris is only 190cm the had wood for the smaller players.
Ryan is our back pocket and needs to be able to play on those dangerous players who like goals.
I reckon our half backs can cover the dangerous half forwards Wilson and hill also have pace.
Sorry, but Hamling even said he took the smalls often. The best game of his career was against Cyril Rioli in the 2016 finals.
 

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Do we really need a so-called "bull" anyway? We have plenty of size already with Fyfe/Blakely/Cerra/Brayshaw/North/Valente. Not one pencil-neck among them that's for sure.
 

Joao

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Do we really need a so-called "bull" anyway? We have plenty of size already with Fyfe/Blakely/Cerra/Brayshaw/North/Valente. Not one pencil-neck among them that's for sure.
I agree with this. There is a serious obsession with every midfielder being massive. Sure, you don't want too many sub 180cm players but I'd just like us to have good players. I don't really care how big they are.
 

salim malik

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I doubt that very much. There is no evidence freo has even slightest inclination to play Logue as a midfielder long-term. Its a theory from supporters based on one underage game.
Mundy says hello,was a full back, Fyfe was a half forward. Pav played mid ,etc,etc. How does anyone on here know what Freo,s future plans are for Logue. Logue has imo all the attributes to make it as a power mid. Those saying he lacks footy nous are talking rubbish.
 

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Hogan had some midfield time at the Dees didn't he? I like it when mobile talls have a spin through the midfield. Creates a bit of diversity, maybe a mismatch, and can help get a player into the game.

In the past I have wanted Logue in the midfield, but more as a 2nd ruck playing more as an extra midfielder kind of role. That just isn't needed now with Lobb. But with a player like Logue you wouldn't want to put any limitations on what he may become, and he is an exciting bundle of potential for us to watch develop over his career.
 

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Logue’s midfield minutes will be similar to that of Pav. He will be more beneficial in a key positional role but when we are getting bullied in the midfield send him in for a bounce or 2 to change the momentum of the game.
 

M_rash

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Do we really need a so-called "bull" anyway? We have plenty of size already with Fyfe/Blakely/Cerra/Brayshaw/North/Valente. Not one pencil-neck among them that's for sure.
Not much pace either. Would be nice to find a fleet-footed inside mid to help spread from stoppage (offensively and defensively). Probably our greatest need in there. It’s nice having Hill and Langdon for speed on the outside, but we are severely missing inside pace.

Oh what’s that???? Why hello Mr Bennell?
 

sherrif

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Mundy says hello,was a full back, Fyfe was a half forward. Pav played mid ,etc,etc. How does anyone on here know what Freo,s future plans are for Logue. Logue has imo all the attributes to make it as a power mid. Those saying he lacks footy nous are talking rubbish.
Yep. You're right. Logue showed he has a very good footy nous in his first year in terms of body positioning in marking contests and not being exposed defensively by experienced players. While no one knows the future plans as far as next season goes I think it's fair to say they would have added a tall defender if they didnt think Logue would fill that role if Alex Pearce and/or Hamling was injured. Cox has been more of a a forward than defender so far at afl level and we pretty much only have third tall defenders outside of that so while 'no one knows' freo plans as far as next year goes it's a pretty good chance they see Griff as a key defnder/third tall if everyone's available. If not we would have the shallowest depth in key defensive talls of any team in history. He was also mentored by Mcpharlin last preseason. Again, its not definite, but a reasonable deduction to assume Luke was chosen because of the similarities between himself and Griff in terms of key defensive traits.

Like I said things could change, but in the forceable future Griiff looks likely to play as a key tall when you look at the list. I think he's grown a centremetre or two since he last played afl, so the fact taht he could be 194cm or taller would also help him to play a key position role.

Personally I though he played his best football in his first year when playing as the second tall rather than the third tall. In my view if you have another look at his first season, but view him as a key defensive prospects, then his year looks a lot better than most on here appear to think. At the moment he reminds me a lot of a young Alex Rance, who started his career in shutdown roles (using supreme athleticism to stop his man) and then developed his creative intercept play as the years have gone on.

Ill do a deal Salim. If Griff is turned into a midfileder within the next two years ill admit im wrong and promise to shout you lunch and a few beverages to watch an away game at a Perth pub. You'll owe me nothing if he doesnt.
 

sherrif

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Not much pace either. Would be nice to find a fleet-footed inside mid to help spread from stoppage (offensively and defensively). Probably our greatest need in there. It’s nice having Hill and Langdon for speed on the outside, but we are severely missing inside pace.

Oh what’s that???? Why hello Mr Bennell?
I agree we could do with more inside pace. Id like to see Langdon be given some inside mid time with the hill boys and Colyer rotating on the wings. From what Ive seen Bewley looks quicker than advertised and he could also play a role there. For what's its worth Brayshaw did better than people would think in some of the Champion data speed results last year. I was only able to find a few of the results last season and Brayshaw was definitely in the top 5 in terms of maximum speed of players on the ground at least twice. It was the North home loss and one other game from memory. That doesnt mean he's quick from stoppages, but I think he's quicker than people think. Banfield and Fyfe are also pretty quick as well.
 
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